Finance bros/Tesla bros - interest rate/term on new vehicle question

[Danno]

I can't even chuckle at "girl math".

[Foggy_Goggles]

I'm sorry my words hurt. Anyone know where I can get the best terms on a '24 Ski Doo Turbo.

Also, is their a new dictionary available so i can update I vocabulary to compliant term. Specifically I'm looking to replace.

Girl
Boy
Cock
Pussy
Bitch
Cunt
Prick


Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[Danno]

I'm sorry my words hurt. Anyone know where I can get the best terms on a '24 Ski Doo Turbo.

Also, is their a new dictionary available so i can update I vocabulary to compliant term. Specifically I'm looking to replace.

Girl
Boy
Cock
Pussy
Bitch
Cunt
Prick


Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

fuck off with your deflection. You are not a parent of a girl so I get that you might not understand, but "girl math" isn't funny to many. And the fact that you keep defending it and keep acting like we are arguing for poor financial choices or arguing against the use of the word girl or other words when all we're doing is pointing out your poor choice of words (regardless of whether that phrase is a "thing"), is pretty silly. I know you're smarter than that.

[Foggy_Goggles]

You fuck off. I'm not deflecting. I'm owning it. I don't give a shit whether you like my choice of words.

Project and cancel as you see fit. But realize that it's a big mean world out there. Just because you feel pain, doesn't mean that someone meant to hurt you.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[mcphee]

[Danno]

You fuck off. I'm not deflecting. I'm owning it. I don't give a shit whether you like my choice of words.

Project and cancel as you see fit. But realize that it's a big mean world out there. Just because you feel pain, doesn't mean that someone meant to hurt you.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

so I could call you a retard and that would be ok? How about saying you're gay? Some things just suck to say, regardless if they are available words to use. Most of us -- including you -- learn to edit our vocabulary as times change and what words are recognized as hurtful or damaging changes. And I don't see you owning shit, I see you defending your choice of words and not acknowledging that is a stupid and damaging phrase or even ignoring people who object to it. Instead, I see you fighting back for your well-chosen phrase. You don't have to give a shit whether I or anyone likes your choice of words. But it's a shitty choice of words nonetheless.

[climberevan]

Damn, FG. Chill.

The advice you're offering in this thread in particular looks worse when it's delivered with a side of misogyny. You normally have pretty good takes on here but misogyny is not a good look.

Also, crying "cancel" is the weakest response to criticism ever. It just screams that one is insecure because he can't defend his position with a logical augment that appeals to people who disagree.

[Cocximus]

I can totally relate. Gear purchased on sale is akin to earning money. Buying skins at a 50%+ discount during the summer effectively saves me money, as I won't need to pay the full MSRP when my current ones crap out during the winter.

[El Chupacabra]

I can totally relate. Gear purchased on sale is akin to earning money. Buying skins at a 50%+ discount during the summer effectively saves me money, as I won't need to pay the full MSRP when my current ones crap out during the winter.

This is AKA "TGR math," which is understood and accepted by all spouses and significant others of those on this forum. Right?

"But, honey, it was on sale!"

[Foggy_Goggles]

My choice of words was neither selected to offend nor prejudiced against women. That all I am defending. I'm probably late to the party on what is considered acceptable these days living under the rocks that I do.

And yes, I change my vernacular over time. Maybe pump the brakes on this one? It's just a shitty term for shitty behavior.



Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[AdironRider]

It is really hard to take seriously someone being offended by the possibility of someone else being offended.

[AK47bp]

Current Vehicle gets average 16mpg at average cost of $4/g for mid grade. I averaged 1337 miles/month over the last 2 years. Cost to fuel is approximately $336/mo. or $4,000/year. Current payment $578/mo. at 2.4%, insurance is $150/mo.

Model 3 long range priced currently at $44,880. (I qualify for $7,500 Fed credit, $5,000 state credit, $500 charge install credit, and $500 referral credit). Monthly would be approx $600 before tax, and insurance would be $200. Electricity cost for same mileage would be approximately $800/yr.

Netting out all the numbers, monthly cost would be roughly $194 or $2,300/year less with the Tesla. This part makes sense.

The issue: From what I gather the Model 3 depreciates very slowly for a vehicle. The numbers above are using Tesla's current 6.1% rate at 84 months. I shopped a number of banks and credit unions, and could not find a better rate (this is bananas - credit score is >800).

If I want to take advantage of the current price/incentives, without increasing (actually decreasing) monthly vehicle expense, does it make sense to enter the deal with Tesla's 84 month option, and plan on refinancing when rates drop? This sounds dumb to me - but I'm not sure why. (I do realize I could decrease the term and increase the monthly expense to break even with current expense, and that this would be prudent. I guess I am looking at this as a sort of middle ground, but having trouble with the 84 month thing.

How much equity and how many more payments due on your current vehicle?

Or did you answer this already.

Can’t fathom a scenario where financing a new car for 7 years will save any money (if that’s your goal) even if electric

[Conundrum]

Some people get rich off interest, some get poor.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Some people get rich off interest, some get poor.

There are many paths to financial comfort. If that's important to you, i suggest you pick one and try to kick ass at it.

I have one friend that went full Lumberg in the city. I have another than drive his high school car into his 40s, was an onsite property manager with house for years and plowed all his savings into hard money lending.

Both of them started fucking off full time by 50ish. Not to say they don't work, just that they don't have a job and financially they listen to no one.

These are roll models for me. Not those with fancy rides although I like those too.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[skaredshtles]

There are many paths to financial comfort. If that's important to you, i suggest you pick one and try to kick ass at it.

I have one friend that went full Lumberg in the city. I have another than drive his high school car into his 40s, was an onsite property manager with house for years and plowed all his savings into hard money lending.

Both of them started fucking off full time by 50ish. Not to say they don't work, just that they don't have a job and financially they listen to no one.

These are roll models for me. Not those with fancy rides although I like those too.

Did they both do this sans children? That seems to be the key...

[Foggy_Goggles]

One 2 kids, one no kids.

I just brought it up as sometime the conversation moves towards a one size fits all financial plan. Reality to me is more like just try to be responsible and don't piss your money away.

Overhead creep is really easy. It can be a challenge to get out from under.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[climberevan]

Doing that with kids is really impressive if they really did start from the ground without a big leg up from family.

I am there at 47 and really didn't work seriously until I was like 32. Before that I was a pretty hard core dirtbag though, and I used those skills to make a lot of a little. Being in the right industry at the right time helps a lot, but the key point is LOW OVERHEAD.

Aside from those few who really do enjoy their work and not much else, spending like 1/3 of what you make is a good way to make work optional pretty quickly. Pay off your house, never borrow money for anything else, and living is pretty easy.

Ofc starting out now in this loony housing market would make that SO much harder. Honestly I don't know what to tell the young'uns at this point. (Except to not borrow money for a fucking car, of course.)

[Not DJSapp]

OP seems to have disappeared, but left one really important part out of the original problem statement. How many months do you have left on the gas guzzler? Shouldn't be that long if you're holding a 2.9% loan.

All of the incentives and dollars saved on unleaded can't catch up with not having a car payment.

[big kook]

Sorry - ran into a shitstorm. Skimming over the replies, and replying generally my presumptions are:

1. I would not keep the loan for 84 months. As I said in the OP, I am presuming the rates will go down. Yes, this is a PRESUMPTION for purposes of the exercise.

2. I'd rather pay the least cash for a depreciating asset. Someone mentioned a 3-year loan. Why? Wouldn't I be net positive leaving most of the money in the market over the same period? 6% loss on a loan versus 12% gain is a net gain. But this is where I get lost in depreciation/interest. I am missing something here and this is what I am asking about. Maybe 3 years is the sweet spot. Honestly, I am not even sure what I'm trying to accomplish here.

3. I am going to get an electric vehicle. On balance, right now seems to be the best time in history to do that for this or any other EV as far as pricing goes.

4. I know it would be smarter to buy a 12 year old beater with 150k miles and drive it as long as possible. We all know cars are a waste of money, etc. No one ever needs a new car. This is not what I am asking about.

[MontuckyFried]

Sorry - ran into a shitstorm. Skimming over the replies, and replying generally my presumptions are:

1. I would not keep the loan for 84 months. As I said in the OP, I am presuming the rates will go down. Yes, this is a PRESUMPTION for purposes of the exercise.

2. I'd rather pay the least cash for a depreciating asset. Someone mentioned a 3-year loan. Why? Wouldn't I be net positive leaving most of the money in the market over the same period? 6% loss on a loan versus 12% gain is a net gain. But this is where I get lost in depreciation/interest. I am missing something here and this is what I am asking about. Maybe 3 years is the sweet spot.

3. I am going to get an electric vehicle. On balance, right now seems to be the best time in history to do that for this or any other EV.

4. I know it would be smarter to buy a 12 year old beater with 150k miles and drive it as long as possible. We all know cars are a waste of money, etc. No one ever needs a new car. This is not what I am asking about.

I honestly don't understand how the maths work out so hopefully some dentists here who moonlight as accountants can explain the nuts and bolts, BUT it has always been my elementary understanding that paying interest on loans isn't near as fruitful as just shoving those same payments into investments, particularly at the higher interest rates you're speaking of for investing. I found this calculator to be interesting and I played with it some, so check it out here:
https://www.huntington.com/Personal/...debt-or-invest
Basically, I ran a 40K at 72 months at 6% w/ zero down vs making the equivalent of that car payment (~$663/month if that's right) right into investments at 12%. Long and the short of it is that during that same span, you can either SPEND over $17K in freaking interest alone (is that right, guys?) over that term, versus making ~$13K in interest at 12%. So even with your scenario of a 6% loss versus a 12% gain, you still end up with a 4K deficit.

Correct me if I'm wrong folks since I'm a total finance jong, and like I said, really don't understand this stuff fully. I just know I like to make interest instead of paying interest if I can help it.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I think you answered most of your own questions. You want a Tesla so you are talking yourself into it with questionable logic.

No, you ain't arbing you car loan against the market because you don't get cash from the loan, you get a fucking Tesla!

The tooth fairy ain't coming. The world in which you'll refi you loan and "the market" returns 12% appear pretty unlikely according to my magic 8 ball.

So the life advice of living within your means, investing in your self to ensure you have in demand skills, don't put your dick in crazy, understand the value and your mental and physical health, consider buying real-estate probably trumps all that.

If you are generally kicking ass, buy the Tesla (that's what a Tesla signals anyway). Buy own the fact that it isn't a smart financial decision. But that's OK, neither are snowmobiles or vacations or expensive dinners.

But be honest and quit the justification gymnastics.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[Danno]

Yeah, the idea of "I'm going to get the longest loan possible so I can invest my money rather than paying down this depreciating asset, and make more in the market, and later will refinance when rates lower" seems just a wee bit pie in the sky. Could it all happen that way? Sure. Is it likely? My magic 8 ball returns the same result as Foggy's.

[ColMan]

Since your original post, looks like M3LR price has dropped $470 to $44,410. Not that $470 will make much of a difference on an 84 month loan but it will cover the cost of your wall charger I guess (or get your referrer to buy it for you with points).

Still having a hard time with a 84 month loan on a depreciating asset, but it's your money and life is short.

[MontuckyFried]

Still having a hard time with a 84 month loan on a depreciating asset, but it's your money and life is short.

No matter what my financial situation was, I don't think I could stomach even the thought of paying on a car for 7 freaking years. That's three whole years of still paying a vehicle that's way out of warranty. I think Tesla's warranty is 4 years/50K miles, more on powertrain, but still. Screw that.

[bagtagley]

If the rate is the same for all terms, I’d take the longer term knowing I’d overpay and taking comfort in the lower payment for lean times. But, definitely wouldn’t take it to term and wouldn’t want to deal with the hassle and cost of refinancing.

Doesn’t really apply to your situation, but with current incentives, it’s not a bad time to finance if you’re in the market for a new vehicle. 36 month at 2.9% for a lot of makes. That’s easy to beat right now while staying liquid.