New Season, New Tires, New Thread

[skinipenem]

Interesting conversation about tire pressure and rear tires.

For those running low pressures: 18 f 22 r 'Ish... I suppose that makes for a nice smooth ride but can't see it helping one go fast. For example, Bernard Kerr who is about 175# runs 24-25 f 27-29 r on his Enduro bike. Lower pressures make for a smooth ride, but less precise in turns. I suppose if one isn't pumping/ pushing hard in the turns then this doesn't matter. I.e. if the primary concern is pinch flats or squirming when not pumping the bike through turns. Riddle me this...

On the topic of pressuring the front tire less on modern geo bikes, I don't get it. Don't newer bikes have shorter chainstays? If so, then more front pressure would be required? My experience might be jaded as my most modern bike is a 2022 decoy mx followed by a 2016 demo and previously owned a 2011 Enduro and 2011 demo. Each modern iteration requires more aggressive pressure on the front to maximize grip and allow for the rear to initiate two wheel drifts or drift solely on its own while the front stays connected.

Just my thoughts. Genuinely curious what's going on here with others thoughts.

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Edited because I didn't proofread and my post made no sense.

[simple]

You're getting older and weaker so it's harder to shred and get loose. Or it's the tire pressure....

[toast2266]

I've been thinking about this lately, and your post has really sparked me wanting to try a wider rear tire. For my Sentinel which sees bike park use only, I've got the tried and trued Front DHF 2.5 DD and Rear DHRII 2.4 DD. Its great, but id like to try a 2.5 rear tire to see if there is any gain in traction/balance. I just measured my current setup, DHF is spot on 2.5 and the DHRii is closer to 2.35, both on 30mm inner width rims. And now that I've measure them, Im even more motivated to go wider in the rear.

What 2.5 rear tire would work well with my setup? I was thinking about just running DHF front and rear. (I actually have a DHF 2.5 Exo+ 120tpi version i could run up front and then move the DHF DD to the rear.) What are the pros and cons of running a DHF on the rear as opposed to a DHRII?

I still prefer a 2.5 dhf paired with a 2.4 dhr. I used to run a 2.5 dhf paired with a 2.3 dhr pretty often (especially on a trail bike), but I don't feel like that works as well on modern bikes.

I also run 2.5 dhf's front and rear pretty often, but that's mostly so I can do a front to rear tire rotation (fresh tire goes on the front, moderately worn front goes on the rear, worn rear goes in the trash). I only do that on the big bike that's mostly used for shuttles and bike parks, where I'm running dh casing maxx grips front and rear. Agreed with what the others said about dhf's on the rear - compared to a dhr2, they're faster rolling, less braking traction, breaks traction easier in corners, but you can still lean them way over and get them locked in.

I don't mind the dhf / dhf pairing and it works better for my wallet, but given the choice, I'd still run a dhr2 in the rear.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I'm pretty much set on Assy front DHRII rear in DD casing. MaxxGrip is sooo good but they wear too damn quick. Think I am gonna have to switch to MaxxTerra, but worried I am gonna hate the reduction in damping.

[mildbill.]

The rear probably won’t want to slide from corner to corner on shaped S turns!

Probably so - however there are precisely zero of such turns where I am going (2022 pic)...

...

the new plan is also one less tire swap to worry about which is one less chance to have to fuck with rim tape on the road.

exactly.

For completeness, representative photo of the trails on the first stop...


Also +1 on the "DHFs are fun as shit on the rear" topic.

[aBradAbroad]

I swear this thread should be sponsored by every manufacturer because I jump from “these guys are way overthinking it” to a paralyzing insecurity that my current rubber on all my bikes is insufficient and under-analyzed and that I need to go spend money or my bike will explode. Love it.


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[skinipenem]

I'm pretty much set on Assy front DHRII rear in DD casing. MaxxGrip is sooo good but they wear too damn quick. Think I am gonna have to switch to MaxxTerra, but worried I am gonna hate the reduction in damping.

You seriously can feel the difference in "damping" bergen for compounds? Please explain. Genuinely curious.

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[MegaStoke]

You seriously can feel the difference in "damping" bergen for compounds? Please explain. Genuinely curious.

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I can totally feel the difference between rubber compounds, especially when pinballing down chunky terrain. Softer tires feel way more muted and less harsh at the same pressure.

It’s kind of like the difference between a ski with metal vs one without.

[jdadour]

I still prefer a 2.5 dhf paired with a 2.4 dhr. I used to run a 2.5 dhf paired with a 2.3 dhr pretty often (especially on a trail bike), but I don't feel like that works as well on modern bikes.

I also run 2.5 dhf's front and rear pretty often, but that's mostly so I can do a front to rear tire rotation (fresh tire goes on the front, moderately worn front goes on the rear, worn rear goes in the trash). I only do that on the big bike that's mostly used for shuttles and bike parks, where I'm running dh casing maxx grips front and rear. Agreed with what the others said about dhf's on the rear - compared to a dhr2, they're faster rolling, less braking traction, breaks traction easier in corners, but you can still lean them way over and get them locked in.

I don't mind the dhf / dhf pairing and it works better for my wallet, but given the choice, I'd still run a dhr2 in the rear.

Thanks all for the feedback on the DHF 2.5 front and rear. Since I have both those tires already, just going to give it a shot and see how I like it.

Also, for something kind of different, I see reports of the 2.6 DHRII measuring a bit smaller closer to 2.5. So ordered two of those in the new EXO+ casing to try out front and rear. From what I read, there might be a bit less grip when rolling over on the edge knobs, but still performs well and has better braking traction.

Will be fun to try out both setups!

[grskier]

I can totally feel the difference between rubber compounds, especially when pinballing down chunky terrain. Softer tires feel way more muted and less harsh at the same pressure.

It’s kind of like the difference between a ski with metal vs one without.

casings yes, I don't know if I can notice the difference in maxxgrip or maxxtera though.

[toast2266]

Going fast through rocky chunder on soft rubber dh tires with the perfect tire pressure is one of the most satisfying things to do on a bike.

Thudthudthudthudthud.

[simple]

Remember the sound of chain slap? I don't and it's wonderful

[skinipenem]

Going fast through rocky chunder on soft rubber dh tires with the perfect tire pressure is one of the most satisfying things to do on a bike.

Thudthudthudthudthud.

Bidididabididabididabidida

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[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Buddy just started riding Kryptotals and claims it's the second coming of Christ. I probably missed the discussion on these. Yes? No?

[BigHerm]

I got a set of DH Kryptotals last year for park riding. SuperSoft Front 2.4, Soft Rear 2.4. Thought the front would be like an Assegai but it has a much wider channel between tread and cornering knobs. Rear is like a DHR2 but lasts longer and is available in DH casing and Soft or SuperSoft compound.

I tore the sidewall on a rear pre-riding a race stage with a 90* right onto a fire road followed by a 90* left onto a trail. Must have been a little inside on the left and clipped a rock. Later I repaired it with dyneema fishing line and an automotive patch, holds air still.

I then replaced a DD DHR2 MT with Kryptotal Rear Enduro Soft. Again, lasts longer with a gradual wear to knobs instead of chunking off. Road that all winter in Sedona/Phoenix. Switched to a Xynotal Rear Enduro Soft when hardpack/dust season started. My new favorite summer rear. Rolls fast, holds a line on off-camber, surprisingly good climbing traction. It's what I wanted out of a Dissector. I'm 185 lbs geared up, running between 23.5-25 psi with a CushCore Pro. Slapping sidewalls all over these Northern AZ rocks with no problems.

I tried the Kryptotal Front DH as a trail tire and was pretty impressed too. Nearly the same weight as EXO+ MG Assegai. I have only ridden my haggard, worn tire on a XCish trail. Plan is to pull CushCore XC and replace Assegai with Kryptotal Front DH SuperSoft on my pedally wheels.

So yeah, they're good. Especially when you get them cheaper from overseas or on a damaged packaging sale. Argotal supposed to be their true Assegai/Magic Mary competitor but I haven't tried it yet. New casing/compound supposed to be coming out soon (maybe fall?).

[sf]

Been on the fr/re-combo in enduro/soft this season. They’re fine, and coming of a Baron/Kaiser-combo they’re pretty similar. Krypto-front better on slabs, Barons maybe slightly better on roots etc, but not sure.

Last tires before that was dhrIIs f/r. Can’t really compare, but felt the Kaiser was better climbing tech than the dhrII. And the Kryptos are pretty similar,so….

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I got a set of DH Kryptotals last year for park riding. SuperSoft Front 2.4, Soft Rear 2.4. Thought the front would be like an Assegai but it has a much wider channel between tread and cornering knobs. Rear is like a DHR2 but lasts longer and is available in DH casing and Soft or SuperSoft compound.

I tore the sidewall on a rear pre-riding a race stage with a 90* right onto a fire road followed by a 90* left onto a trail. Must have been a little inside on the left and clipped a rock. Later I repaired it with dyneema fishing line and an automotive patch, holds air still.

I then replaced a DD DHR2 MT with Kryptotal Rear Enduro Soft. Again, lasts longer with a gradual wear to knobs instead of chunking off. Road that all winter in Sedona/Phoenix. Switched to a Xynotal Rear Enduro Soft when hardpack/dust season started. My new favorite summer rear. Rolls fast, holds a line on off-camber, surprisingly good climbing traction. It's what I wanted out of a Dissector. I'm 185 lbs geared up, running between 23.5-25 psi with a CushCore Pro. Slapping sidewalls all over these Northern AZ rocks with no problems.

I tried the Kryptotal Front DH as a trail tire and was pretty impressed too. Nearly the same weight as EXO+ MG Assegai. I have only ridden my haggard, worn tire on a XCish trail. Plan is to pull CushCore XC and replace Assegai with Kryptotal Front DH SuperSoft on my pedally wheels.

So yeah, they're good. Especially when you get them cheaper from overseas or on a damaged packaging sale. Argotal supposed to be their true Assegai/Magic Mary competitor but I haven't tried it yet. New casing/compound supposed to be coming out soon (maybe fall?).

Ok good to know, so weight wise the Conti DH casings are similar to Maxis DD casings? For racing enduro with inserts would you run the Conti enduro or DH casings?

[BigHerm]

Conti DH casing is between DD and EXO+, at least for Assegai. For racing Enduro I have been using DH Casing front/rear, with CushCore XC up front, CushCore Pro rear. SuperSoft only comes in DH casing (for now).

Also wanted to add: local fast Masters dude smoked the field on Trail/Endurance (exo/DC equivalent) Kryptotal Rears at Sunrise. Place is rocky AF. Said he got on them last minute, all the shop had...

[Andeh]

Ok good to know, so weight wise the Conti DH casings are similar to Maxis DD casings? For racing enduro with inserts would you run the Conti enduro or DH casings?

I've been running them on my ebike and enduro bike. Agree with most of what BigHerm is saying, except that when I weighed them, a set of the DH casing weighs the same as a DD Assegai/DHR pair. Kryptotal Front DH is lighter than Assegai DD, Rear DH is a bit heavier than DHR DD. Rubber durability is superb. Their bead insert is very stiff, and I'm running them much lower pressure than I could without getting squirming/folding. I am also trying a pair of the Enduro casing ones on my enduro bike, and only had to increase pressure 1psi from the DH. Again, the bead insert is pretty stiff.

I hate inserts so can't really comment there much, other than I'd personally rather run the DH casing and lighter or no insert than light casing with heavy insert.

My measured weights:
Assegai DH 29: 1370
Assegai DD 29: 1284
Kryptotal Fr DH 29: 1247, 1279
Kryptotal Fr En 29: 1202
DHR DH 27.5: 1198
DHR DD 27.5: 1128, 1113, 1112
Kryptotal Re DH 27.5: 1270 (soft), 1198 (super soft)
Kryptotal Re En 27.5: 1099, 1116

Edit: traction of the Kryptotal Re is way higher than a DHR. It doesn't like to drift as well, and seems to brake a lot better. The Front rolls way faster than an Assegai, the Rear maybe a bit slower than a DHR, for net higher rolling speed.

[BigHerm]

Damn Andeh, that's some serious data. I was only regurgitating what I had seen elsewhere regarding Assegai/KRF weights. Never thought to compare rears for total system weight. I do love the EXO+ MG Assegai, but she's a chonker.

Kryptotal Rear tread knobs are so much taller than DHR2, likely explains the traction differences. Or maybe it's the "black chili" voodoo

[skinipenem]

I've been running them on my ebike and enduro bike. Agree with most of what BigHerm is saying, except that when I weighed them, a set of the DH casing weighs the same as a DD Assegai/DHR pair. Kryptotal Front DH is lighter than Assegai DD, Rear DH is a bit heavier than DHR DD. Rubber durability is superb. Their bead insert is very stiff, and I'm running them much lower pressure than I could without getting squirming/folding. I am also trying a pair of the Enduro casing ones on my enduro bike, and only had to increase pressure 1psi from the DH. Again, the bead insert is pretty stiff.

I hate inserts so can't really comment there much, other than I'd personally rather run the DH casing and lighter or no insert than light casing with heavy insert.

My measured weights:
Assegai DH 29: 1370
Assegai DD 29: 1284
Kryptotal Fr DH 29: 1247, 1279
Kryptotal Fr En 29: 1202
DHR DH 27.5: 1198
DHR DD 27.5: 1128, 1113, 1112
Kryptotal Re DH 27.5: 1270 (soft), 1198 (super soft)
Kryptotal Re En 27.5: 1099, 1116

Edit: traction of the Kryptotal Re is way higher than a DHR. It doesn't like to drift as well, and seems to brake a lot better. The Front rolls way faster than an Assegai, the Rear maybe a bit slower than a DHR, for net higher rolling speed.

How's the front krypto traction compare to assguy?

Does the rear krypto hang on too long to drift before the front without significant body English?

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[Andeh]

How's the front krypto traction compare to assguy?

Does the rear krypto hang on too long to drift before the front without significant body English?

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Front I feel like it bites into soft soil a tad better than Assegai due to taller knobs, but gives up a little bit on hardpack (due to increased surface area of the Assegai). There's no dead zone like a DHF. It has a pretty good locked in feeling when leaned over hard due to the beefy side knobs - plenty of feedback to let you know you're on them and they are holding.

The rear just feels grippy. Maybe it's more square than the DHR? Or maybe it's that the knob pattern is less horizontal stripey? DHR I feel like especially when it's a week or 2 old is very easy to slide laterally. The Rear doesn't hold longer than the front, it's just balanced with it. I can get it to slide if I unweight the rear wheel a hair and maybe feather the rear brake. DHR I feel like I can slide pretty easily just by feathering the brake in loose over hard conditions.

[MegaStoke]

Quick rant: I’m demoing an Orbea Wild(amazing bike btw), a 160 travel emtb, it’s running 2.6 EXO+ casing DHF/DHRs, and they’re absolute dogshit. Run enough pressure for adequate support, and they’re ping ponging off everything and sliding out on corners im used to railing, but as soon as you drop the pressure enough for the tires to work well, you’re in the squirm and rim strike zone. And high volume tires with a no intermediate knobs suck balls. They’re slow to roll over onto the side knobs, and deathly loose until you get there.

Who the fuck thought tissue paper casing high volume tires were a good idea for a 50lb long travel ebike?

[Andeh]

Quick rant: I’m demoing an Orbea Wild(amazing bike btw), a 160 travel emtb, it’s running 2.6 EXO+ casing DHF/DHRs, and they’re absolute dogshit. Run enough pressure for adequate support, and they’re ping ponging off everything and sliding out on corners im used to railing, but as soon as you drop the pressure enough for the tires to work well, you’re in the squirm and rim strike zone. And high volume tires with a no intermediate knobs suck balls. They’re slow to roll over onto the side knobs, and deathly loose until you get there.

Who the fuck thought tissue paper casing high volume tires were a good idea for a 50lb long travel ebike?

Euros love those clownshoe tires, but also think weight matters on a 50 lb ebike.

Related, but I was talking to the local suspension guy, and when I mentioned that when I rode my buddy's Levo with a 38 on it, I had to run the HSC fully closed, more pressure than the chart, and still bottomed it out easily. He laughed and said the ebike tune on it was "like water" and actually lighter than the stock tune because it's for "people who ride sitting down." WTF...

[Jtlange]

I've been running them on my ebike and enduro bike. Agree with most of what BigHerm is saying, except that when I weighed them, a set of the DH casing weighs the same as a DD Assegai/DHR pair. Kryptotal Front DH is lighter than Assegai DD, Rear DH is a bit heavier than DHR DD. Rubber durability is superb. Their bead insert is very stiff, and I'm running them much lower pressure than I could without getting squirming/folding. I am also trying a pair of the Enduro casing ones on my enduro bike, and only had to increase pressure 1psi from the DH. Again, the bead insert is pretty stiff.

I hate inserts so can't really comment there much, other than I'd personally rather run the DH casing and lighter or no insert than light casing with heavy insert.

My measured weights:
Assegai DH 29: 1370
Assegai DD 29: 1284
Kryptotal Fr DH 29: 1247, 1279
Kryptotal Fr En 29: 1202
DHR DH 27.5: 1198
DHR DD 27.5: 1128, 1113, 1112
Kryptotal Re DH 27.5: 1270 (soft), 1198 (super soft)
Kryptotal Re En 27.5: 1099, 1116

Edit: traction of the Kryptotal Re is way higher than a DHR. It doesn't like to drift as well, and seems to brake a lot better. The Front rolls way faster than an Assegai, the Rear maybe a bit slower than a DHR, for net higher rolling speed.

I have weighed 2 DH Continental Tires and 1 Enduro, I would agree with the Enduro casing weight but the DH casings have all been north of 1300g for me. Both have been about 1320g.