The Raven - Hoji's New Masterpiece

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The Raven has a small sweet spot. When you’re on it and skiing through the whole foot on edge they’re amazing in soft and/or funky snow. Speed is key to get that slippery loose feel, don’t make lateral movement until you get up to speed. They’re not noodlers in deeper funky snow. You can ski slower in powder and 2D crust/corn though.

[kc_7777]

I sense this consensus that every skier MUST like this ski - else they simply haven't "figured it out" yet. I would challenge that. As a skier preferring of more symmetrical skis, but also flat-cambered skis, I never found my groove with the Raven (2021) despite getting very used to it over a bunch of days and purposeful adaptation. I respect where it excels, and why many folks enjoy it, but I didn't appreciate its shortcomings. Certainly, some people (including myself) can find a better compromise of benefits with alternative ski designs.

Point is - it may be a sweet design that works for many - but its far from a universal holy grail. IMHO
Actually, the real point is to echo my personal learning that if it doesn't feel right - it doesn't have to mean you're wrong! Try-try again. Skis vary so widely in how they feel and perform. Fascinating and expensive and frustrating stuff

The Raven has a small sweet spot. When you’re on it and skiing through the whole foot on edge they’re amazing in soft and/or funky snow. Speed is key to get that slippery loose feel, don’t make lateral movement until you get up to speed. They’re not noodlers in deeper funky snow. You can ski slower in powder and 2D crust/corn though.

I think the 4FRNT Raven has a decent sized sweet spot…. but agree it may not be the ski for everyone. I’ve been skiing Hoji’s shapes (owned 3 Rens, 2 Hojis and 1 pair of Ravens) since 2013, and find them easy/intuitive to ski. But put me on an Volkl M102, mounted at -11cm, and I’d prolly find those tougher to ski. Or at least they would not feel right.

So ya its definitely a feel thing. When I’ve just skied my Hojis and Ravens exclusively for a couple of weeks in a row, and then go back to a cambered ski, I find that I need a few runs to “re-adjust” my skiing to cambered skis.

So I assume the "reverse" is true....

What I love most about the Raven is that it slarves so well. The shape makes it effortless to ski fast in steep, tight terrain. The reverse camber allows you to drive the Raven from right under your boot, instead of using tip pressure like cambered skis. The Raven is a pretty straight ski (with a 29m sidecut radius) so its not the best ski for carving sharp, tight turns. Which is the point. Slarve em. I love when you throw them into a controlled drift, and then stay perpendicular to the fall line for awhile. See in this 1st pic…I’m on a steepish pitch in chalky snow, and am “pushing” through my feet (eg I’m pushing equally through my entire foot, including my heels too). You can see my left heel is a bit lazy....kind of drifting...mmmm.



In this next not as clear pic you can also see that I'm skiing centered, drifting in dust on crust, pressuring the whole ski, down through my boots. People complained conditions sucked this day....not on reverse cambered skis.



Another benefit…cambered skis tire my legs out quicker. Whereas reverse camber skis save your legs. I can definitely ski faster and longer on Ravens/Hojis vs cambered skis. It’s actually kind of cheating when you do a big day inbounds, and you are on Hojis, and the rest of the crew is on cambered skis. Way easier to slarve than carve all day.

PS I differ from some people in that I also ski my rockered Ravens inbounds a lot, even on ice, cause when tipped on edge, that full length of the ski engages the snow and gives a pretty stable edge hold. So you just have to put some time in….and watch some Hoji vids.

[skinipenem]

If the ravens ski anything like the renegades:

Ski much faster than you think you should... the ski will come alive and then you can replicate the front at slower speeds. You must commit and trust the ski, since it won't give early feedback like a cambered ski. The renegades kill chop at Mach speed by planing on over the inconsistencies of chop and bumps. Commitment is key.

Slarve. Think smearing sideways. Try drifting completely sideways to get tubed. Try evening pressure between both skis and playing with stance width. The reverse camber 4frnt skis will carve, even on hardback , but need higher edge angles to hookup.

I think both points have already been made above.

It takes me most of a day of 3D snow to get my legs underneath me and feel invincible after skiing ice for weeks to months in between. I really need to move back westward. It took until run number five om a pow day at the bird on my one Utah trip this year until it all clicked.

This is all my opinion though and could be entirely wrong for other people.

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[rfconroy]

If the ravens ski anything like the renegades:



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They sure do, the Raven / Ren Combo is fucking rad

[OttoP]

Another data point here, from a Northern Norway point of view, as in only touring

Got these in 190 length in March and haven't toured with my other skis at all since, so one could say I'm quite sold.

I had no previous experience with reverse camber skis, but it only took a few turns in ankle deep to figure these out. I've had the Vision 118's as my deep snow touring pair and while they're not reverse camber, the rocker is long and I would not call them directional at all. Maybe I was familiar with the centered stance both skis like. I did take a calf wedge out of my boots to get a slightly more upright stance. These respond to really small inputs as well, even just pronating the ankle a bit to initiate.

March was the deepest month I've experienced ever. Mostly blower pow from ankle to even the elusive nipple deep, but still didn't reach for the Visions. Ravens ski deep powder strikingly well. Feels like either the whole ski floats or sinks, so it's very predictable, no tip hooking at all. And what felt the weirdest, they're still maneuverable inside the snow, not just on top of it.

April was more spring-like and variable conditions. Cruddy refrozen crust, chalky and wind-effected were all remarkably nice with the ski. Only time I was struggling was in some 5cm breakable windboard with soft snow beneath and felt it was challenging to release the tails. Not sure I'd be able to ski that snow smoothly with any other ski I've been on, though.

They're light enough for some long (10km) approaches and big vert days (1700m+) but heavy enough for the variable stuff. Mounted for 313mm bsl -1,5cm with Salomon MTN and it feels spot on.

The question is, if these are allready the best 105mm pow skis I've skied, what would the Hoji or Renegades feel like on those truly deep days and maybe for tightish tree skiing? Visions are good tree wiggling machines, but sometime feel slightly lacking on bigger faces) Is there a bigger difference in float and pivotability between Raven and Hoji or between Hoji and Renegade?

[kc_7777]

I’ve owned all three.

Currently own the 184 Raven and 184 Hoji. Previously owned the Raven and 184 Renegade.

The Hoji is my favourite ski when it is soft inbounds. I used it a ton last season. Plenty of float, but more maneuverable and quicker than Renegades. At the 112mm width you can still ski in the snow on the Hoji, vs the 122mm width Ren which puts you more on the snow.

So I guess bigger diff between Hoji and Ren in float (than Raven and Hoji).

Hoji is just a more versatile ski than the Ren.

That being said I’ll prolly buy Rens again.


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[altacoup]

I own every ski that Hoji has designed, except for the newer renegades as I’m a HALS construction renegade hoarder (best ski ever made). The raven and renegade ski very similarly. They’re both lightsabers slicing through fresh snow. The renegade however is made to turn it up to 11. There’s no top end speed limit but you definitely need to be skiing them FAST for them to come alive, they’re pretty horrible meadow skippers. The hoji has a more bouncy feel than the other 2, and the raven can be skied in pretty much any condition and handles speed well but isn’t really capable of going full on Mach looney.


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[Hughwindlip]

I had to ski to different hojis on a trip recently. Fuck yah, barely noticed.

Renagdes slay
Hojis play
Ravens do it any way

That's what I think about them.

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[kc_7777]

Renagdes slay
Hojis play
Ravens do it any way



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Awesome!

I’m 99% certain I’ll have Rens in the quiver again next year. Have often thought about buying second Hojis.
Cause I always end up having my best ski days on Hoji’s shapes. They just work.

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[waveshello]

I own every ski that Hoji has designed, except for the newer renegades as I’m a HALS construction renegade hoarder (best ski ever made). The raven and renegade ski very similarly. They’re both lightsabers slicing through fresh snow. The renegade however is made to turn it up to 11. There’s no top end speed limit but you definitely need to be skiing them FAST for them to come alive, they’re pretty horrible meadow skippers. The hoji has a more bouncy feel than the other 2, and the raven can be skied in pretty much any condition and handles speed well but isn’t really capable of going full on Mach looney.


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I like meadow skipping on Rens. Almost no sidecut and full reverse camber makes mellow terrain and low tide conditions in the local foothills fast and fun.

[PinyonJuniper5]

Love the re-invigoration of this thread. Absolutely love my current-gen 184 Ravens. I used to ski a much narrower and lighter ski, and bought these as a powder ski. Turns out they are my new favorite ski for everything, although now I want a “real” powder ski. What’s everyone’s thought on 184 vs 190 for the Renegade? I am pretty darn split on which one I want.


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[North]

Love the re-invigoration of this thread. Absolutely love my current-gen 184 Ravens. I used to ski a much narrower and lighter ski, and bought these as a powder ski. Turns out they are my new favorite ski for everything, although now I want a “real” powder ski. What’s everyone’s thought on 184 vs 190 for the Renegade? I am pretty darn split on which one I want.


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Haven't skied a 184 Ren but put ~45 days this season touring on a pair of 191 Rens (wolf topsheet). No regrets on the length. They feel plenty nimble for the terrain I'm skiing (moderately open to very open ~1-2K shots). Yo-yoing tighter trees and shorter pitches I might prefer the 184. 6'1 160lb race background. More finesse than power. I also ski the 190 Raven and think I would prefer the 184 FWIW.

[rfconroy]

Love the re-invigoration of this thread. Absolutely love my current-gen 184 Ravens. I used to ski a much narrower and lighter ski, and bought these as a powder ski. Turns out they are my new favorite ski for everything, although now I want a “real” powder ski. What’s everyone’s thought on 184 vs 190 for the Renegade? I am pretty darn split on which one I want.


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'
Being on the 186 renegades, they're pretty nimble like most of the skis in this family, so if you have the long legs for throwing kick turns on the 190cm I'd go longer over shorter. For reference, I'm about 5'7'', and havent had issues with throwing kick turns on the 186, as if you're using the renegade, you've got softer snow, and go do a stabbing kickturn 95% of the time.

[SnowMachine]

Not a ton to do these days except stare at the quiver and contemplate changes. I think I want to add in a Hoji ne t season for inbounds powder and touring (most likely Cast). I'm 6' 160, strong skier. Debating size. I'm thinking 191, but it would be the longest ski I've ever been on. It would be used in everything from chutes to tight trees when the snow is deep.

[rfconroy]

Not a ton to do these days except stare at the quiver and contemplate changes. I think I want to add in a Hoji ne t season for inbounds powder and touring (most likely Cast). I'm 6' 160, strong skier. Debating size. I'm thinking 191, but it would be the longest ski I've ever been on. It would be used in everything from chutes to tight trees when the snow is deep.

The only reason I would go shorter is if you're going to tour. While it wouldnt be my first choice for a resort pow ski, I would say go longer, as both the renegade and hoji ski much shorter than they are with the full rocker design.

Personally, if you're looking for a dedicated pow ski, I'd go with something heavier, or a renegade

[kc_7777]

I ski my Ravens and Hojis a lot inbounds. A lot. Any day it’s pretty soft I’m typically on one of those skis as they are what I enjoy most. I ski the Ravens lots on low-tide, icy days as well. I think they’re epic resort skis.

And ya they ski a bit short. But awesome.

Just sold some other pow skis. Keeping the binders from them for some new 2024 Rens.

Would love to see the new topsheets for Rens/Hojis/Ravens for next year??




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[SnowMachine]

The only reason I would go shorter is if you're going to tour. While it wouldnt be my first choice for a resort pow ski, I would say go longer, as both the renegade and hoji ski much shorter than they are with the full rocker design.

Personally, if you're looking for a dedicated pow ski, I'd go with something heavier, or a renegade

I have J Friend's. They're damp and heavy.

I would definitely tour on the Hoji's, also.

My skis are 184-186 right now. The Hoji's are a totally different ski from anything in my quiver. I'm always looking to ski something different. I'm inclined to go longer.

[Andyski]

Someone please buy these $200 once-mounted Ravens so I don't: https://sidelineswap.com/gear/skiing...thout-bindings

[TripleT]

For those on 4-Lock versions...have you had any issues with the skins? All I've heard is good things until this weekend - my partner met someone who's had the tail attachment fail multiple times and require sewing fixes

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

sample size of 1, but I've never had an issue with my 4-Lock skins

[rfconroy]

For those on 4-Lock versions...have you had any issues with the skins? All I've heard is good things until this weekend - my partner met someone who's had the tail attachment fail multiple times and require sewing fixes

Nor have I - system works great.

The DIY system I did also works awesome - the How-To guide is in the link in my signature

[ey_allen]

No issues with 4-Lock for me, and its one of the reasons I stuck with 4FRNT for fatter pow sticks. I'm not the most delicate with my skins so the extra purchase of the 4-Lock has eliminated a whole host of problems I had with other skis either coming off or not sticking later in the day when glue got frozen.

[Andyski]

Four lock has been totally bomber - so good.

Anyone else found that ravens ski way better with a softer boot? After a couple days where I struggled to find the balance point on the ravens, I was messing around with other boot/ski combos and found that my old-ass Vulcans w/o tongues were, by far, better with the ravens than Vulcans with tongues and ZGTPs buckled for “performance” ie pretty tight. Mind you, this was on roughed up groomers thanks to a round of freezing rain, not powder. Next step is to mess with zgtps to try to make then ski a bit softer.

Anyone else had the soft boot experience with these?

[kc_7777]

I’ve switched this year to a Nordica Strider 120 from Head Kore 130 and Dalbello Krytpon 130…..

I’ve found the Ravens awesome in all conditions with both boots. Though with my Zipfit workhorse liners the Striders have stiffened up a bit so maybe not a huge difference.

Also my 4-lock skins seem fine. Love how small and packable they are.

Ravens are great skis.

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[PinyonJuniper5]

Four lock has been totally bomber - so good.

Anyone else found that ravens ski way better with a softer boot? After a couple days where I struggled to find the balance point on the ravens, I was messing around with other boot/ski combos and found that my old-ass Vulcans w/o tongues were, by far, better with the ravens than Vulcans with tongues and ZGTPs buckled for “performance” ie pretty tight. Mind you, this was on roughed up groomers thanks to a round of freezing rain, not powder. Next step is to mess with zgtps to try to make then ski a bit softer.

Anyone else had the soft boot experience with these?

I swap back and forth between skiing my Ravens with a Scarpa Quattro XT and a Scarpa F1 LT. The Quattros are usually what I bring when I travel, or if I’m skiing BC and the resort in the same day. But most of the time I’m on my F1’s, just because I’m lazy and really prefer the better ROM.

I find the F1 LT gives me better snow feel than the Quattro, and the slightly more upright stance, both of which are better for skiing “Hoji style”. Originally I thought the F1 LT would be too little boot for this ski, but I was wrong, they go together quite well, and I’m not a small guy. (6’ ~190lbs)


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