Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

[climberevan]

I disagree with the "never miss the bike shoes" assertion, but I will admit that trail runners are great for HAB. If that's a major part of your "riding", or if you're doing Unbound 2023, maybe flats and running shoes are the way to go.

I love my carbon soles and prefer to ride my bike rather than hike beside it.

[altacoup]

GCN did a test on road bikes flats vs clip. The difference was a matter of a few seconds, and the test rider had basically never ridden flats and was a dedicated roadie. Both the Tiger and the presenter were shocked. Ruger did say that he still preferred clip due to his foot being in the exact same position every time but admitted there basically no quantifiable performance gains.

[Supermoon]

I notice the stiff soles much more than the clips. In trail runners or skate shoes my feet get tired.

[bfree]

It's all in my mind that I can use more hamstrings and less quads with clips? I'll say I'm shocked too.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

GCN did a test on road bikes flats vs clip. The difference was a matter of a few seconds, and the test rider had basically never ridden flats and was a dedicated roadie. Both the Tiger and the presenter were shocked. Ruger did say that he still preferred clip due to his foot being in the exact same position every time but admitted there basically no quantifiable performance gains.

This video?

The sprint differences are a pretty massive quantifiable performance gain. Of course, not everyone needs to sprint.

I also question the overall value of these results since they come from only a 3:00 climb and 5k TT tests. Especially as they pertain to gravel riding where typical miles/vert/hours ridden are usually pretty high.

That said, we've got a guy around here who rides (and races) in flip-flops and flats. I would guess his feet feel WAY better than mine after 5-6 hours of racing.

[rideit]

Exactly, I despise the feel of a soft sole on the pedals, and I really, really dislike riding on flats. SPD since spring of '92, this old dog is set in his ways. If hike a bike is more than 1%-2% of a gravel ride, I'm turning around.

[bodywhomper]

Wait! Y’all are slipping. Burks is the way. Right?

A kid I know got his crocs to be clipless. It’s his main riding shoe now (but he’s mainly riding an enduro bike). He also skis in jeans (under his ski pants) when he’s competing in moguls. It’s his trick for getting onto the podium.

[buttahflake]

Seriously if you are riding gravel bikes with flats, go ahead and punch yourself in the dick, right now.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

GCN did a test on road bikes flats vs clip. The difference was a matter of a few seconds, and the test rider had basically never ridden flats and was a dedicated roadie. Both the Tiger and the presenter were shocked. Ruger did say that he still preferred clip due to his foot being in the exact same position every time but admitted there basically no quantifiable performance gains.

This test has been repeated more than once

I’m sure the elite cyclists here are truly exceptional though. I road clipless and cleats and straps for 20-25 years exclusively, don’t miss them at all. If you’re shoe is folding on modern flats get a stiffer shoe, it doesn’t take much.
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[I've seen black diamonds!]

I don't care about shaving seconds or minutes off my "time," but riding in flats sucks. I did it for a few weeks when my old shoes died and I had a hard time finding new ones that fit well. It was kind of like.... tele skiing. The drawbacks are obvious and the "advantages" have more to do with identity than performance.

[rideit]

If your shoe is folding on modern flats get a clipless setup, or whatever works best for you, it doesn’t take much.

FTFY

[Peruvian]

^^^Agreed. Clipless on mtn bikes is only for old guys these days and it’s just a matter of taste whether you like SPDs or flats on gravel bikes. Some folks are underbiking the hell out of their drop bars and flats make sense. Some bikepackers are HAB a lot so that they would fuck up their cleats. Use what works for your style of riding.

[rideit]

^^^Agreed. Clipless on mtn bikes is only for old guys these days and it’s just a matter of taste whether you like SPDs or flats on gravel bikes. Some folks are underbiking the hell out of their drop bars and flats make sense. Some bikepackers are HAB a lot so that they would fuck up their cleats. Use what works for your style of riding.

Curiously, many, many of the top ten World Cup DH and Enduro competitors run clipless, as do most of the really fast guys in those disciplines locally. Both young and old.

[Peruvian]

Curiously, many, many of the top ten World Cup DH and Enduro competitors run clipless, as do most of the really fast guys in those disciplines locally. Both young and old.

When racing you don’t want to become disengaged from your bike. For recreational riders there is little advantage.

[rideit]

Unless, of course, a recreational rider doesn't want to get disconnected from their bike, either. The cleat tension can be set so low now, it makes unwanted releases kind of a non issue.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The only time that I like clipless now is on a fixed gear


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[Kevo]

Seriously if you are riding gravel bikes with flats, go ahead and punch yourself in the dick, right now.

Ever since rupturing her achilles (skiing injury, not biking) my GF rides flats with sticky MTB flat shoes on her gravel bike per her orthopedic surgeon's recommendation. Something about clipless pedals risks re injuring her achilles, allegedly.

[rideit]

^^^precisely, run what works for you.
(And be a dick about it)

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

^^^precisely, run what works for you.
(And be a dick about it)

I don't know, that sounds awfully mature to me. We may not be MTBR in here but we can use condescension to mask our insecurity about our own choices with the best of them.

[rideit]

Just don’t run EXO casing tires on any trails that have rocks.
Those morons can die in a grease fire.
Just ask Skrdshtles.

[grskier]

Ever since rupturing her achilles (skiing injury, not biking) my GF rides flats with sticky MTB flat shoes on her gravel bike per her orthopedic surgeon's recommendation. Something about clipless pedals risks re injuring her achilles, allegedly.

This is standard protocol from a LOT of surgeons nowadays. Some calculus about injury of twisting and more abrupt catching yourself.

I have to go punch myself because I ride my gravel bike with flats and these:
https://www.giro.com/p/tracker-mount...rBlueBrightRed

I got the gravel bike as my rehab machine from ACL surgery, surgeon and PT said try flats... So I did... It's fine.
They are not as stiff as my old clipless shoes, but I've ridden 30 miles and not gotten that sore foot that I'd get from sneakers or the like.
I was on clipless (spd 2000-2008 time 2008-2018 and back to spd up to 2020) for a long time. I don't mind either now.

I also like that I can walk around town or into a store mid ride and not sound like a ungulate.

Do I get any more points deducted from my gravbro status for wearing jorts and merino tees instead of not quite as tight as road spandex on my gravel bike???

[bodywhomper]

The pros racing the enduro near me, the TDS Enduro, all seem to be using clipless. The kids, too.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Do I get any more points deducted from my gravbro status for wearing jorts and merino tees instead of not quite as tight as road spandex on my gravel bike???

Thought I saw your riding around Willits the other day

[XtrPickels]

Curiously, many, many of the top ten World Cup DH and Enduro competitors run clipless, as do most of the really fast guys in those disciplines locally. Both young and old.

As mentioned further up, there is a significant difference in sprint power, which is very important for those disciplines. Same with BMX - Those guys and girls put out massive power out of the gate.

For steady state riding at sub-threshold intensities, every bit of research I’ve read or conducted says pedal type and shoe stiffness make no difference what so ever for measures of economy (e.g. oxygen use per workload) or performance (e.g. time-trial performance)

When I was at PI, we made a shoe that was 90grams, and just had the skeleton of a carbon plate. It was awesome, but it never made it into production.

[rideit]

For me, it’s the security of knowing my foot won’t get thrown off in ultra rocky chunder. I absolutely hate trying to find a pedal as I’m navigating nutso rocks (my favorite kind of riding). It also always puts my foot in what is the most efficient pedalling position (for me), with the cleat under the ball of my foot.
I grew up dirt jumping as well, so I know how to bunny hop, but I love being able to pick up my rear wheel easily, and place it where I want it instantly without much upper body noise. Even on the 50+ # e-bike!
Technical climbs I find SO much easier being able to throw my bike up without wasting too much energy.
But once again, whatever floats your pedals, cool by me.