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Thread: Ask the experts

  1. #10401
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    36,513
    I'm guessing WRG's local lift served is gonna be a minute...
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  2. #10402
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    2,536
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I'm guessing WRG's local lift served is gonna be a minute...
    Disco opened last weekend but yeah.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using TGR Forums mobile app

  3. #10403
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    I've read a number of threads with people experiencing the same issue on various forks: a weird feeback cycle of decreasing pressure to get better small bump/chatter compliance, resulting in less mid-stroke support and a dive-y fork, which they address by adding tokens and making the fork crazy progressive, and before they know it the fork only lives between 50 and 70% of its travel and feels like absolute shit.
    Not saying that's what you're experiencing, and clearly you know enough about suspension to avoid that pitfall, but starting at 0 tokens is the ticket for us light people. I have complaints about the Pike's airspring with no tokens, but with 2 tokens in the only thing I want to do it use the fork as a gardening tool because it's an absolute POS that can be optimized for more that 1 thing.

    If you can't get the Zeb to work without tokens then move on, the properties of the air spring are just not working for you and not amounts of fucking with the fork will get you where you want to be.
    I absolutely went through this with my DVO Onyx. Took me like 20 runs on my test track faffing with the air before I finally got it figured out and ended up with a much higher pressure than I was expecting. I'm tuning my Zeb Ult RC2.1 right now and already removed a token, and I wont hesitate to remove them all and see how it feels.

    WRG, everything I've heard about Zeb Select is that it's just not good. The big volume doesn't jive well with the basic RC damper and the air spring has drawbacks that are also amplified by the damper. A '22 Zeb Ult should be a pretty cheap upgrade and will be worth putting extra money into like adding the new DebonAir+ airspring with buttercups or a Luftkappe (the new air spring actually has a larger negative chamber and should come close to the Luftkappe performance.

    And speaking of the Zeb's large air chamber, does anybody have a recommendation on a digital shock pump? My analog one is hard to get accurate beyond 5psi and with the low pressures of the fork, 3psi could easily be a 5% change in air pressure.

  4. #10404
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    17,314
    I'll try taking out the token and going to like 15% sag and see what happens. Beyond that I'm just gonna tough it out and wait until I can buy a new fork.

  5. #10405
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NorCal coast
    Posts
    2,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    ...
    And speaking of the Zeb's large air chamber, does anybody have a recommendation on a digital shock pump? My analog one is hard to get accurate beyond 5psi and with the low pressures of the fork, 3psi could easily be a 5% change in air pressure.
    I like the Blackburn one. Almost every digital shock pump uses the exact same actual display/sensor (Fox, RS, Topeak, and the Blackburn one), but what I like about this one is that it's shorter overall length means it's easier to store in a vest/pack/bumbag for tuning laps.

  6. #10406
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,790
    I've got the Blackburn one too but just saw a Lezyne one at my LBS that is pretty compact looking and wish that'd been available a few years ago.

  7. #10407
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    8,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I'll try taking out the token and going to like 15% sag and see what happens. Beyond that I'm just gonna tough it out and wait until I can buy a new fork.
    I’d probably try opening up HSC all the way as a starting point while you’re at it. Doesn’t sound like blowing through your travel is going to be the concern.

  8. #10408
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
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    36,513
    Based on this thread, I just bought the short Topeak one with a gauge, as it’s only 8.5” long, and will fit in my frame bag unobtrusively. I have one of those ridiculously tiny emergency ones, but it’s a pita.
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  9. #10409
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,468
    Any Ridewrap whisperers lurking? Secrets to a good install?

  10. #10410
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
    Posts
    10,323
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Any Ridewrap whisperers lurking? Secrets to a good install?
    Patience
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  11. #10411
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    9,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I'll try taking out the token and going to like 15% sag and see what happens. Beyond that I'm just gonna tough it out and wait until I can buy a new fork.
    You know any LBS’s that have a shockwiz they’ll let you borrow? It’d be interesting to see what changes it would recommend.

  12. #10412
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The better LA
    Posts
    2,829
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Any Ridewrap whisperers lurking? Secrets to a good install?
    One vote here for "not worth it"
    A ton of work for minimal protection. Worthless for anything more than minor scuffing, IMO.
    Protection from small branches scuffing the paint? - Sure.
    Rock rash? - Fegetaboudit. Like a hot knife through butta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  13. #10413
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    14,926
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxtar View Post
    One vote here for "not worth it"
    X2.

    I throw a bit of 3M vinyl tape in the most prone areas (back of seat tube, under downtube, etc.). But that just takes a couple minutes and it costs a fraction of what those ride wrap kits go for.

  14. #10414
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SLCizzy
    Posts
    3,679
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Any Ridewrap whisperers lurking? Secrets to a good install?
    I’ve found it’s all about the solution mix. The solution packet in the kit mixes at something like 2 drops per liter of water or something like that. But it’s kinda thick, so tough to measure out a drop.
    On my last wrap job I initially made the mix too strong and the piece just slid around and wouldn’t stick. So I poured out some of the spray bottle and added water and it got way better. I then realized that I had been using too weak of a mix in the past. I had a much easier time removing bubbles this last go round.
    Be liberal with the spray on the pieces and spray your fingertips for every piece so you avoid fingerprints.

    When applying, start pushing down in the center of the piece and squeegee out from there.

    Using the microfiber along the edges is really effective to pull solution out from the edge and get it to stick down in place.

    Finally, start with the smaller pieces and get the feel of it and the technique dialed before doing big pieces like the top tube.
    Do the top tube last, that’s the one you’re gonna be staring at when riding and you want that shit looking good!


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #10415
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I'll try taking out the token and going to like 15% sag and see what happens. Beyond that I'm just gonna tough it out and wait until I can buy a new fork.
    If you still can’t bottom with no tokens and low pressure, check for tight bushings and make sure you have zero compression damping set. If bushings aren’t tight, then the fork is too progressive at base for you. How much do you weigh?

  16. #10416
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    17,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Dromond View Post
    If you still can’t bottom with no tokens and low pressure, check for tight bushings and make sure you have zero compression damping set. If bushings aren’t tight, then the fork is too progressive at base for you. How much do you weigh?
    I'm about 175lbs kitted up on the bike. I run compression all the way open all the time. How do I check for tight bushings?

  17. #10417
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    X2.

    I throw a bit of 3M vinyl tape in the most prone areas (back of seat tube, under downtube, etc.). But that just takes a couple minutes and it costs a fraction of what those ride wrap kits go for.
    yup. $2 worth of the thickest, least sticky residue tape I can find. Preferably clear, but not always.

  18. #10418
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Eugenio Oregón
    Posts
    8,858
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    X2.

    I throw a bit of 3M vinyl tape in the most prone areas (back of seat tube, under downtube, etc.). But that just takes a couple minutes and it costs a fraction of what those ride wrap kits go for.
    I used 3M paint protection film, which is basically what those invisiframe kits are made out of. It applies like car window tinting film, which means it’s a little bit of a pain if you don’t use a window tint squeegee tool and spray bottle, and it takes a while to figure out how to work it. But it holds exceptionally well once applied … it’s held up extremely well over 7 years on my bike! Had only partially peeled from my fork stanchions which see a lot of abuse. I wrapped the sides of my top tube and left a small gap on the top … well my frame is so old that my sweat has attacked the original factory paint on my top tube where the gap is, but not where the paint protection film was applied.
    _______________________________________________
    "Strapping myself to a sitski built with 30lb of metal and fibreglass then trying to water ski in it sounds like a stupid idea to me.

    I'll be there."
    ... Andy Campbell

  19. #10419
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The better LA
    Posts
    2,829
    I use the Effettomariposa Shelter Off-Road stuff on the super vulnerable places; downtube, rear triangle, wherever you're likely to get serious rock shots.
    Pricey but works really, really well; super thick - 1.2mm, strong, sticks well, and really pliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

  20. #10420
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    33,989
    I get the 4" wide 3m film for 25$ at the auto parts store and wrap top of top tube/ bottom of down tube/ sides of the stays, it saves against minor scratched & scuffs so the bike looks better , I've wrapped 3 bikes now so I think its worth the hassle cuz I got pretty good money for my 5.5 when i sold it

    a mixture of 25% alcohol & water will help you stretch it around corners, water & soap will help you stick it down to get the bubbles out
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #10421
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    8,125
    Another option is Racers Tape/Helicopter Tape. Available 14mil thick, so offers pretty good protection.

    That Effeto tape sounds interesting too. 8mil/0.2mm tape but with a 1mm thick viscoelastic backing for some shock absorption.

  22. #10422
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    8,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I'm about 175lbs kitted up on the bike. I run compression all the way open all the time. How do I check for tight bushings?
    175 isn’t what I’d typically consider ‘light’ (maybe because I’m 175…). That should be well within the normal design range of a fork, I’d think.

  23. #10423
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    14,926
    My experience with any kind of tape that's thick enough to actually do something for small impacts is that, because it's thick, it snags on stuff and dirt collects around the edges. It ends up looking like shit pretty quickly.

    I also find that some bike brands need protection more than others. My Norco scratches super easily, but my Propain's paint has been pretty bulletproof. And Transition's paint flakes off if you even look at it too hard.

  24. #10424
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Mexico 2.0
    Posts
    842
    This is why I wish more frames came in raw finishes.

    Anyone have experience with steel single-pivot full squish bikes a la Starling, etc? Any good, or are you just paying boutique prices for a heavy bike with less than great suspension?

    I'm coming from a 2016 Canfield Riot that I like a lot, except it's a bit small for steep and chunky trails. Currently riding in western Washington, good chance of moving to Roxtar's area soon though.
    kittyhump.com - Fund Max, Cat Appreciation, Bike

  25. #10425
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SLC burbs
    Posts
    4,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I'm about 175lbs kitted up on the bike. I run compression all the way open all the time. How do I check for tight bushings?
    Air down the fork entirely, leave the pump connected (to depress the valve), compress it manually, see if the lowers slide back down under their own weight. If not, move them up and down along the stanchions and see if you feel any spot with more resistance.
    I had a set of Mezzer Pro lowers with tight bushings and it was bad enough that I couldn't pull them off the stanchions without serious force. The fork felt like shit with noticeable resistance to get into its travel. I swapped another set of lowers just to confirm the bushing issue and the damn things would fall off the stanchions under their own weight when I let go of them.

    Note: the above if for Manitou, with RS you could remove the airspring assembly entirely. The goal is not to have anything working against the lowers moving along the stanchions other than a potentially tight bushing.
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

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