New Season, New Tires, New Thread

[smmokan]

You’ve prob already said upthread, but what’s your everyday set up? Is it the same for the bikes in your fleet?

Right now it's Magic Mary front, Hans Dampf rear (for CO riding) on my Stumpy EVO... but only because I have a few leftover Schwalbe tires from last year. We're working with Specialized this year, so all the demos have a Butcher T9 front, Eliminator T7 rear on them w/ Grid Trail casing. I'll probably switch over to that soon, and then throw a Hillbilly/Butcher on for BC trips and sloppy CO high country rides.

[PhishingME]

There's lots of DHF clones. I've yet to ride one that's as good as the DHF. The knob shape and placement is easy enough to copy or maybe slightly improve on, but Maxxis' rubber compounds and casings are better than pretty much anything else I've tried.

Haven't tried a Mazza yet though...

Assguy for the win. (Not really a clone, I know.)

[stuckathuntermtn]

Mazza knobs look way way taller than DHF knobs. Probably better for mixed/loose/etc

[adrenalated]

Mazza knobs look way way taller than DHF knobs. Probably better for mixed/loose/etc

I have both tires in my garage.... knob height is not significantly different between the two. And 90% of what I ride is mixed/loose/etc. and I find grip about the same although I have not tried both tires on the same bike.

Basically I find the Mazza to feel pretty much the same as a DHF but it's cheaper and lasts longer.

[Roxtar]

Lack of intermediate knobs and subsequent "Maxxis Drift" makes the DHF/DHR lovefest a head-scratcher to me.
How can a tire's lack of grip (as in, the "drift" part) can be considered a positive?

[skaredshtles]

Lack of intermediate knobs and subsequent "Maxxis Drift" makes the DHF/DHR lovefest a head-scratcher to me.
How can a tire's lack of grip (as in, the "drift" part) can be considered a positive?

Some people like the drift?

[Roxtar]

Some people like the drift?

Apparently.
The comments I hear are, "It's a consistent 6" and then hooks up." like that's a good thing.
I must not "get it". I generally prefer my tires to react on demand.

[grskier]

It aids in a bike leaning.
Also, for a back tire, in a lot of areas, it makes for an easier turn.

That all said, Kidwoo wrote a small dissertation on this topic a bunch of years back.

I love the drift in the back (dhr ii) and moved to an assegai in the front for a smaller siping.

It's also why I never loved the aggressor rear that was so hot for a few years. never knew when it would drift a little or not drift.

[toast2266]

Lack of intermediate knobs and subsequent "Maxxis Drift" makes the DHF/DHR lovefest a head-scratcher to me.
How can a tire's lack of grip (as in, the "drift" part) can be considered a positive?

Corning grip all comes down to how hard the corning knobs can dig into the dirt. The more pressure you can exert onto the side knobs, the harder they'll dig in. If you add intermediate knobs to a tire, you're increasing the area, and therefore decreasing the pressure on any given knob (P=F/A). This means the cornering knobs can't dig in as hard. That only comes into play when the cornering knobs are fully engaged, meaning the bike is fully leaned over. At shallower lean angles (the drifty zone on a DHF), the intermediate knobs create grip where there otherwise wouldn't be any.

So in other words, tires with intermediate knobs grip better at shallower lean angles, but grip worse when fully leaned over. In other other words, a tire like the Assegai offers good grip all the time, whereas a tire like the DHF offers great grip but only when it's leaned all the way over.

[Roxtar]

It aids in a bike leaning.
Also, for a back tire, in a lot of areas, it makes for an easier turn.

No, it really doesn't.
An easier turn happens when the tire keeps traction. That's what a tire is supposed to do. I lean my body and the bike reacts. When I want it to, not when the tire decides to.

[Roxtar]

Corning grip all comes down to how hard the corning knobs can dig into the dirt. The more pressure you can exert onto the side knobs, the harder they'll dig in. If you add intermediate knobs to a tire, you're increasing the area, and therefore decreasing the pressure on any given knob (P=F/A). This means the cornering knobs can't dig in as hard. That only comes into play when the cornering knobs are fully engaged, meaning the bike is fully leaned over. At shallower lean angles (the drifty zone on a DHF), the intermediate knobs create grip where there otherwise wouldn't be any.

So in other words, tires with intermediate knobs grip better at shallower lean angles, but grip worse when fully leaned over. In other other words, a tire like the Assegai offers good grip all the time, whereas a tire like the DHF offers great grip but only when it's leaned all the way over.

Yes, I understand the idea behind it. I just feel it's a bad idea. Having to cross the no-traction zone to get to the hookup zone just makes for a squirrely and imprecise feeling tire. That's how they've always felt to me.
That same concept actually works well in my new favorite front tire, the Tioga Edge22. It has no center knobs so the intermediate knobs act like the outer knobs on the DHF. The difference is there is no sliding zone to cross before it hooks up.

Like I said, I don't get it but to each their own

[toast2266]

Yes, I understand the idea behind it. I just feel it's a bad idea. Having to cross the no-traction zone to get to the hookup zone just makes for a squirrely and imprecise feeling tire. That's how they've always felt to me.
That same concept actually works well in my new favorite front tire, the Tioga Edge22. It has no center knobs so the intermediate knobs act like the outer knobs on the DHF. The difference is there is no sliding zone to cross before it hooks up.

Like I said, I don't get it but to each their own

It also kinda depends on your dirt. If I remember right, you're in the desert. And if a lot of your riding is on sand and gravel, especially if it's over hardpack, it makes sense that transitional knobs work better for you. If the dirt / sand doesn't offer enough support for a tire like the DHF to really do its thing, the benefits are kinda lost. If you lean the bike far enough to get a DHF's side knobs to engage, the knobs just blow through the sand and you continue to drift. So you're better off with intermediate knobs that make the most of a shallower lean angle.

But in organic dirt with more support, the amount of grip you can extract from a good channeled tire is impressive.

[Roxtar]

It also kinda depends on your dirt. If I remember right, you're in the desert. And if a lot of your riding is on sand and gravel, especially if it's over hardpack, it makes sense that transitional knobs work better for you. If the dirt / sand doesn't offer enough support for a tire like the DHF to really do its thing, the benefits are kinda lost. If you lean the bike far enough to get a DHF's side knobs to engage, the knobs just blow through the sand and you continue to drift. So you're better off with intermediate knobs that make the most of a shallower lean angle.

But in organic dirt with more support, the amount of grip you can extract from a good channeled tire is impressive.

What is this word, "dirt" you speak of?

Nothing here but rock hard, pre-historic, clay, occasionally covered by moondust.

[Roxtar]

Actually, I fondly remember dirt from the first fifty years spent in the midwest.
Happily traded dirt for mountains.

[skaredshtles]

Actually, I fondly remember dirt from the first fifty years spent in the midwest.
Happily traded dirt for mountains.

It is rumored that there are some places that have *both* if you can imagine. Lucky bastards.

[Roxtar]

It is rumored that there are some places that have *both* if you can imagine. Lucky bastards.

Add lakes/rivers and my brain will explode.

[skaredshtles]

Add lakes/rivers and my brain will explode.

Srs. Lucky m'fers.

[ZomblibulaX]

Not loving the Assegai up front. Am I just a gaper?

2.5 Assegai 3C MaxxTerra 29, tubeless, 20 psi. Coming off running 27.5 High Roller II 2.4 for years that I really liked. Bike is quite a bit larger (470mm reach to 510), paired with wagon wheels and a slacker head angle means I'm using a lot more body english out front, but I don't think this is entirely a technique thing. Tire feels dishy in tight corners where I'm steering instead of just leaning, is generally meh all around. Riding SW moondust over hard pack. Should I get a new HRII, or am I just doing it wrong?

[toast2266]

Not loving the Assegai up front. Am I just a gaper?

2.5 Assegai 3C MaxxTerra 29, tubeless, 20 psi. Coming off running 27.5 High Roller II 2.4 for years that I really liked. Bike is quite a bit larger (470mm reach to 510), paired with wagon wheels and a slacker head angle means I'm using a lot more body english out front, but I don't think this is entirely a technique thing. Tire feels dishy in tight corners where I'm steering instead of just leaning, is generally meh all around. Riding SW moondust over hard pack. Should I get a new HRII, or am I just doing it wrong?

Try a DHF. Per the discussion up thread, a Assegai is significantly less drifty. HR2 is maybe the driftiest tire maxxis makes (at least amongst their fully knobbed options). DHF will ride similarly-ish to a HR2, but a bit less on/off.

[garuda]

The assegais I have owned have all had the cornering nobs erode and get rounded off way too fast. Seems to me that the DHF cornering knobs hold up longer, and are more reliable. Unless an assegai is fresh, it seems less predictable and reliable on hard cornering to me than a DHF. To each their own, but I don't get all the Assegai love.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I’ve honestly never thought of the DHF as drifty. Maybe I’m just used to it? Or maybe moving quickly enough through the drifty zone not to notice?

[rideit]

What is this word, "dirt" you speak of?

Nothing here but rock hard, pre-historic, clay, occasionally covered by moondust.

Conversely, damn I wish we had gobs of Colorado-style embedded rock, (Front Range, Fruita/GJ style) chunk, chunder, rocks that you can roll over at any speed and have confidence that they won’t move. I prefer actual soil to kitty-litter, but I really, really like chunk.

[skaredshtles]

Conversely, damn I wish we had gobs of Colorado-style embedded rock, (Front Range, Fruita/GJ style) chunk, chunder, rocks that you can roll over at any speed and have confidence that they won’t move. I prefer actual soil to kitty-litter, but I really, really like chunk.

Mmmm... Mountain Lion...

[Andeh]

Toast's summary of Assegai/DHF lines up pretty well with my experience. ~4 years ago, I hated the DHF because of the dead channel drift, and had a few spills from it occurring suddenly at shallow lean angles on dust over hard. When the Assegai came out, I loved it because it lacked that gap. (Also shortly before then, I was liking running a DHR up front for similar reasons.) But since then I've gotten better at leaning aggressively, and modern long/slack bikes kind of require you to aggressively weight the front tire to maintain grip. So it feels like the advantages of the Assegai have diminished. About a year ago, I rode a wheel with a DHF on it and had no issues - that's when it clicked to me how much it came down to rider technique. Every time I've tried other tires with more open tread, and especially a more squared off profile and bigger/firmer side knobs, I'm always like, "Wow, I really missed this!". The Assegai is fine and well rounded, it's just really slow and gives less feedback. I don't hate transition knobs now, I just am finding myself gravitating to a squarer profile and a more pronounced side knob bite.

So this is kind of a long winded way of saying it's important to know your riding style and the dirt you're riding when it comes to picking tires. And this isn't even getting into the differences in different brands' rubber compounds and the relation to grip vs. durability, or rear tires (braking, drifting, edging preferences).

[SchralphMacchio]

Add lakes/rivers and my brain will explode.

Come to Oregon between late June and mid July and I can put together a head exploding itinerary for you. I think our soil is some of the most spectacular in the lower 48. And also doing 3500’ shuttle drops on said hero soil right down to hero fishing holes on Willamette River tributaries (or even the main stem in some cases). And lakes.

Mid-September to late October is also playoffs of mountain biking in terms of trail conditions and access (this goes pretty much for any main MTB destinations in the US though right?), though the rivers and lakes aren’t quite as pleasant to spend lots of time that time of year.