WOOT WOOT! Nukin' in Missoula

[Rasputin]

MT can't handle any more sophisticated thoughts than "Snowbowl bad." MT also has been known to assert falsehood ( like Pat had anything to do with the Transporter's rams getting damaged) to support his position that "Snowbowl bad". Sounds like a disgruntled ex-employee with an axe to grind (and there certainly are a few). See how violently angry he gets when someone suggests that there may be other contributing factors besides "Snowbowl bad"? Obviously irrational and incapable of critical thinking.

Though the chair certainly has problems (it can swing side to side badly when loaded improperly, and the halos were bent upwards to avoid hitting people's heads, thereby allowing a collision between chair and tower), they were compounded by an obsessive parent who wouldn't sit down, and let the chair load behind him all the way to the end of the ramp before he did. If the chair was sound, that might not have caused a problem, but it was a disregard for the potential effect of improper loading on the part of the father.

So, the FS is appeasing the public by inspecting all of the lifts, and I expect they'll find the other lifts are within the prescribed parameters. I also expect Snowbowl will comply with the requirements given them to retain their permit, as Brad winces at having to spend money to fix things.

[lifelinksplit]

I still think rider error was involved. It was the last time a chair broke.

You need to shut the fuck up.

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[SUPERIOR]

Gonna go complete Daffy Duck here and say the real problem with all this business is that Missoula / Snowbowl can’t get a major lift into alpine terrain and thus can’t establish a working resort model that gives them enough cash to adequately maintain their equipment. Snowbowl should be way the fuck up the Rattlesnake and getting folks big mountain terrain. Haha, there’s a nonsensical post y’all can hate on.


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[senior researcher]

Awful to learn it was Ray.

[senior researcher]

Awful

[Harry]

Fuck, I knew Ray. Good guy.

RIP



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[Rasputin]

You need to shut the fuck up.

As much as I have enjoyed watching Stuck in the "Snowbowl apologist" hot-seat, rider error was involved in the Snow Park incident, as it was with the La Velle derail a couple years ago. This "customer never does wrong" fantasy is just sad and pathetic, a rant made by people that want to think their responsibility ends when they buy a ticket.

It certainly wasn't the rider's fault that the chair swings sideways easily (it shouldn't), nor that the halo was bent to a state that made it useless (it absolutely was), but when someone stands on the ramp letting the chair push him forward, while he fusses with his kid, he's causing a situation the chair is not designed to accommodate, and no amount of denial and finger-pointing changes that fact.

[lifelinksplit]

As much as I have enjoyed watching Stuck in the "Snowbowl apologist" hot-seat, rider error was involved in the Snow Park incident, as it was with the La Velle derail a couple years ago. This "customer never does wrong" fantasy is just sad and pathetic, a rant made by people that want to think their responsibility ends when they buy a ticket.

It certainly wasn't the rider's fault that the chair swings sideways easily (it shouldn't), nor that the halo was bent to a state that made it useless (it absolutely was), but when someone stands on the ramp letting the chair push him forward, while he fusses with his kid, he's causing a situation the chair is not designed to accommodate, and no amount of denial and finger-pointing changes that fact.

Yeah I was mostly talking about him shutting the fuck up in general.



Sorry about y'alls buddy. R.I.P.



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[Rasputin]

Yeah I was mostly talking about him shutting the fuck up in general.



Sorry about y'alls buddy. R.I.P.

Oh, well that's a horse of a different color.

Thanks for the kind word, it's just really weird, I saw him almost every day this winter, and now never again, fuck.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Apparently, I also complain about the terrain everywhere I go. I'm gonna be the bigger man and just ignore the creaky fossil some of y'all have turned into.
Also, Mo Z is dry. Walked up there with my old dog yesterday. Lots of MTBers and MTB Missoula and volunteers did some amazing looking work on the berms. Weeeeeee.
Ps, the theme for closing day is drag.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Gonna go complete Daffy Duck here and say the real problem with all this business is that Missoula / Snowbowl can’t get a major lift into alpine terrain and thus can’t establish a working resort model that gives them enough cash to adequately maintain their equipment. Snowbowl should be way the fuck up the Rattlesnake and getting folks big mountain terrain. Haha, there’s a nonsensical post y’all can hate on.


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The real problem is their inability to communicate with people on any meaningful level. They waited a week and a half to make a statement? We can't say for sure that Snowpark would still be open if they got out ahead in the PR game, but we can say that, as usual, their silence didn't help the situation.
And the little riblets need to be babied a little. I like watching my housemate scold the kids who stand up to soon. It beats the shit out of the chair and guide when they do.

Also, MT deleted his post? Haha, what a pussy. You wanna be a rage queen? Own it.
Anyway, my sympathies to those who knew Ray.

[RootSkier]

As much as I have enjoyed watching Stuck in the "Snowbowl apologist" hot-seat, rider error was involved in the Snow Park incident

How do you know? Did you see it go down? Even if the guy was absolutely horrible at loading the chair the thing still should not have fucking disintegrated in mid-air.

[Rasputin]

How do you know? Did you see it go down? Even if the guy was absolutely horrible at loading the chair the thing still should not have fucking disintegrated in mid-air.

I can play the same game Root, how do you know this wasn't the case? I've heard the father's version, and I've heard through the grapevine from people I trust more than the offended party (not Stuck). I've already stipulated that the chair has problems that were not related to user error, in fact, I predicted this would happen last year to a friend, when we came close to slamming into the bent back halo (including that nothing would be fixed until someone fell of the lift).

I have no dog in this fight, I just like truth to be known, even when I'm denied out of hand for attempting to shed light on events, as has been the case for years here. People are quick to believe anything disparaging, quick to join in outrage against unpopular characters, and slow to realize that when bad things happen, people often don't want to take responsibility, but rather place blame to absolve themselves.

Though I personally am friendly with the liftie working, I've already said she should have immediately called patrol, it was a big mistake. I have no doubt if Snowbowl had more a responsive ownership, and head of maintenance, this would not have happened. If the FS had inspected Pat's "fix" after people hit their heads and required the consultation and repair they are now, this would not have happened. However, the reaction of the father, and his willingness to embellish the facts (the chair is only eight feet up at the first tower, not fifteen), offset by the witness of others I know on the mountain (not all employees), has informed my perspective beyond the contention that papa did nothing to contribute to the outcome.

I also am aware of the psychology of a father facing the prospect of explaining a chairlift accident to his child's mother. My son failed hard while loading Grizzly once, and ended up getting dragged under the chair, because instead of sitting down, he panicked, and arched his back, and didn't get seated. I've seen adults do the same thing. My first thought after it happened, was how I would explain it to his mother. Then I said what many fathers have said to their kids, when not wanting to lose the option of engaging in fun, but potentially dangerous, activities with their kids, "Don't tell your mother."

Yes, riding chairlifts is a potentially dangerous activity, as chairlifts are heavy machinery, and they can hurt people when people use them improperly, even when they are in perfect working order (which was not the case here). The truth is that the lift operated for almost three years without this happening, which suggests to a non-biased mind, that there was more to this malfunction than all parties doing it as they should.

Personally, I think chairlifts should have a "You must be this tall to ride the lift" sign at the bottom. Asking lift operators to lift little kids onto the lift, so that their parents can go skiing, before the children can board the lift safely on their own, is foolish on the part of greedy ski areas, and selfish parents who, put their own ends ahead of safety and reason.

[toast2266]

I don't know if the father / son fucked up loading the lift or not, but when the failure mode for a bad load is that chair gets mangled and the riders gets ejected from 15' up, that's a problem with the chair, not the riders.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Why can't it be both? Like....have you seen people?
Also, anyone wanna hit Lookout tomorrow?

[toast2266]

Like....have you seen people?

I have seen people. Which is why I think chairs need to be designed and built with people's ineptitude in mind. Especially when the chair is mostly servicing beginner and intermediate terrain.

[RoooR]

I have seen people. Which is why I think chairs need to be designed and built with people's ineptitude in mind. Especially when the chair is mostly servicing beginner and intermediate terrain.

Most are. People are fucking up getting on lifts all over the country and yet stories like this making National news seem fairly unique to this one ski area. Weird.

[S_jenks]

I’m with rootskier on this one though- it’s one thing for someone to fall off of a lift right after loading. But for the chairlift itself to disintegrate and force the other occupant for jump off is just not acceptable from any safety standard.

So what if it hit the tower? They had to bend the halos back after day 1 because of the hazard it posed, so it might be the case that it was an accident waiting to happen. Just took the right combination of variables.

And again- this all comes back to snowbowl. They aren’t fucking engineers and are not qualified to design and install a chairlift. But that is what they did, and it was cowboy engineering to the max. The owners better be thankful that it didn’t end up worse.

Just pay a 3rd party like Skytrak to do the damn job for you. This ain’t the goddamn Wild West anymore.

[total_immortal]

...The truth is that the lift operated for almost three years without this happening, which suggests to a non-biased mind, that thousands of lifts have operated for dozens of years without nearly killing its passengers and there are obvious safety issues at play.

Personally, I think chairlifts should have adequate safety margins to not nearly kill 4 year olds...

fify

[RootSkier]

Then I said what many fathers have said to their kids, when not wanting to lose the option of engaging in fun, but potentially dangerous, activities with their kids, "Don't tell your mother."

Oh hell yeah, it's been a minute since you've busted out the most casual misogyny. We've really missed it.

[Rasputin]

Oh hell yeah, it's been a minute since you've busted out the most casual misogyny. We've really missed it.

Misogyny? Are you daft? You think it a woman hating thing to acknowledge that mothers get mad at fathers when they hear their kids were at risk? Wow, that's a stretch.

FYI, my son's mother was freaked out when she discovered that ski school actually involved skiing, and not sitting in a classroom. She also freaked when she learned that I didn't follow his lesson around all day. You may have a mate that trusts everything you do, but my life has not been so blessed. Sorry that my experience in life doesn't square with your PC fantasy that all mothers implicitly trust fathers with their children.

[Rasputin]

Most are. People are fucking up getting on lifts all over the country and yet stories like this making National news seem fairly unique to this one ski area. Weird.

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/l...1-84e56173f240

https://www.woodtv.com/news/michigan...oyne-mountain/

https://wjla.com/news/local/7-year-o...n-accident-dmv

https://www.ksl.com/article/50544745...ed-to-hospital

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne...from-chairlift

[toast2266]

^^^ those are clearly equivalent situations that are relevant to this conversation. [rolls eyes]

[RoooR]

In which on of those incidents did the chair disintegrate?

[stuckathuntermtn]

The fact is, old riblets can't handle wild Jerries. If you can't handle sitting down and standing up don't fucking ski. Or leave the house.