Bringing Back The Best: Lotii And Other Assorted Love Songs

[byates1]

Rad!

[GoldenBC]

I got an $80cad duties bill for a backpack that cost $150cad not long ago. Fuck UPS.

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There is no duty on downhill skis coming into Canada. I sometimes get charged it but fight it and they will take it off.

[Shorty_J]

There is no duty on downhill skis coming into Canada. I sometimes get charged it but fight it and they will take it off.

What he likely got charged was mostly brokerage and they tend to not budge on that.

How do you fight the duty on a package from USPS?

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[Tupp-]

I'll try to keep this tight... but I tend to type forever.

An OG HALS Ren is what I consider to be the pinnacle of design for Japan forests. Wall-to-wall maple core. Stiff as fuck. Cold, dead hand skis.

When 4FRNT added more rocker and sidecut, and then cut the weight and the length, I balked. I was like "those are three attributes I would not have changed."

If anything, a 186 '14 Ren, which as a sidecut/reverse camber of 35m, is too short. I wouldn't mind a 40m instigating that line. It seems in March, when the forest opens up, and my legs are in gear, that I actually want a longer radius.

I wouldn't be surprised that a longer radius also slarved better. All of this tells me that a longer radius Ren, maybe even longer in length, is what I crave.

All that said... I do think I have a perfect ski under my feet right now. Seriously. The 2014 Ren is dope as fuck.

Idea- delete all updates to the Ren shape after 2014, and add one update-- make it longer in radius/camber/length. I think 4FRNT was on to something with reflect-tech and and they cut it too short to appease the masses. This is a niche ski. It's not supposed to be playful. They added more camber, more sidecut, and made it shorter to make it more applicable to a wider crowd. And, that's why I have not bought a Ren since HALS.

If I buy an HL FR122, it will receive a binding I don't currently have and will be major overlap over what I currently own.

NTTAWWT.

Yes I would buy this 100%. Maybe 2 if there is a resort (>2300g) and touring layup. For my 5’9 frame the 2011 186 orange renegades are perfect. Agree that a longer radius (40+m) would be good for any 3D snow. The tails/tips on these are lower than the 2014 Rens I have, and I prefer the strong flat tail on the 2011s. Low long radius rocker (reflect tech) is killer in funky snow.

[Tupp-]

Also, are there reviews of the comp R87 in 188 yet?

[toast2266]

Hey Marshal - random question that I'm curious to hear your thoughts on: do you feel there's a benefit to having a less (or more) torsionally stiff ski? To what extent is the answer situationally dependant?

There's been a few skis over the years that I feel like were noticeably flexier torsionally. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. But it's not something that I see discussed much, so I'm interested to hear what you think. Is it something that you're specifically designing for with your skis?

[Jongle]

Hey Marshal, question for you on the FR110 -- have you skied the Sender Squad, and if so could you compare the two? They look somewhat similar in terms of construction and shape, with the FR110 having a narrower tip (and obviously being shorter and flat camber). I love the Squads, but at 5'7/165lbs they can be a bit of a handful in tight terrain.

I'm wondering if the FR110s might have that same damp rubbery feel, while being a little more maneuverable and hopefully not giving up too much in carving performance (where the Squads are really exceptional as long as you have some speed).

[chewski]

Hey Marshal, question for you on the FR110 -- have you skied the Sender Squad, and if so could you compare the two? They look somewhat similar in terms of construction and shape, with the FR110 having a narrower tip (and obviously being shorter and flat camber). I love the Squads, but at 5'7/165lbs they can be a bit of a handful in tight terrain.

I'm wondering if the FR110s might have that same damp rubbery feel, while being a little more maneuverable and hopefully not giving up too much in carving performance (where the Squads are really exceptional as long as you have some speed).

I found the FL113 just as damp or even more so than sender squads. The FL113 has a muuuch longer turn radius and does not carve at all like the squad unless it is going very fast and making huge turns. The FL113 is much happier staying in the fall line at all times than turning across the hill. Marshall put a photo up in another thread from an outing in the FR110 so only he can comment on that ski, but the obvious and overwhelming difference between that ski and squads will be the fact that the FR110 is full reverse camber. Sidecut and construction aside, the rocker profile and material length are going to make a massive difference

[Marshal Olson]

Hey Marshal - random question that I'm curious to hear your thoughts on: do you feel there's a benefit to having a less (or more) torsionally stiff ski? To what extent is the answer situationally dependant?

There's been a few skis over the years that I feel like were noticeably flexier torsionally. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. But it's not something that I see discussed much, so I'm interested to hear what you think. Is it something that you're specifically designing for with your skis?

shoot man. Sorry. Missed this!

I would say that if stiffness is like spring rate and weight/construction is like rebound damping, torsion is more like tire pressure. Not enough and the ski is washy, vague, and not able to turn right. But fine at slower speeds and definitely more foreviging. Conversely, too much means a rough ride, overly grabby, and skips instead of arcs clean turns.

the key is to harmonize torsion to the weight, stiffness, ski tune, rocker profile, etc to make everything work in concert with each other

Not sure if this answers your question, more than happy to unpack more!

[Marshal Olson]

Hey Marshal, question for you on the FR110 -- have you skied the Sender Squad, and if so could you compare the two? They look somewhat similar in terms of construction and shape, with the FR110 having a narrower tip (and obviously being shorter and flat camber). I love the Squads, but at 5'7/165lbs they can be a bit of a handful in tight terrain.

I'm wondering if the FR110s might have that same damp rubbery feel, while being a little more maneuverable and hopefully not giving up too much in carving performance (where the Squads are really exceptional as long as you have some speed).

hey man!

so firstly, the FL113, FL105, and FR110 all share the same construction, but they have different shapes, stiffness, flex patterns, and rocker profiles.

I have not skied the Sender Squad, but I would put these skis with anything in terms of dampness and stability at speed.

I do think the FL105 is most comparable shape/rocker wise to the Sender Squad. It’s more of a directional mount, but that has more to do with a shorter tail taper. The front end and EE look to be pretty similar.

The FR110, as Chewski points out is full reverse. But dammit, it shreds and likes bad behavior too. It is essentially 7cm (straight tape) shorter than the 194 squad, so effectively one size smaller. But it will feel even more maneuverable than that, due to the reverse. I can’t say how stable it would be in comparison, but it certainly is happy to grip it and rip for what I have seen in two days on the testers. I’d say it is at least as stable as a 186 EHP, if that’s helpful.

The FR110 is definitely a more nimble ride, that can slash and get creative. The FL105 is a fall line (all cap!) ski.

[Sylvan]

I have not skied the Sender Squad, but I would put these skis with anything in terms of dampness and stability at speed.

After 22 days on 194 FL113s, I much prefer the smoothness and stability at speed as compared to Squads, at least at my 195#. They're the real deal. Early days yet but bases/edges/topsheets have been bomber so far. Cant wait to get FL105s on snow for the firmer days. FR110s aren't my style, but looking forward to hearing the Collective's thoughts; I'm pretty blown away by the on snow product thus far.

[chewski]

The FL105 is a fall line (all cap!) ski.

All caps so necessary, lol

[bw_wp_hedonism]

Marshal, you gotten the FR110 on snow yet? Been on my Noctas today since we finally got snow, and the reverse camber has me excited all over again…


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[toast2266]

shoot man. Sorry. Missed this!

I would say that if stiffness is like spring rate and weight/construction is like rebound damping, torsion is more like tire pressure. Not enough and the ski is washy, vague, and not able to turn right. But fine at slower speeds and definitely more foreviging. Conversely, too much means a rough ride, overly grabby, and skips instead of arcs clean turns.

the key is to harmonize torsion to the weight, stiffness, ski tune, rocker profile, etc to make everything work in concert with each other

Not sure if this answers your question, more than happy to unpack more!

Thanks, that all makes sense.

It's just one of those things that seems hard to quantify with skis, and it doesn't get discussed much. But there are so many skis I've been on over the years that were seemingly very similar, but some I loved, and some I kinda hated. Often for the exact reasons you stated - wouldn't track cleanly through a turn, felt chattery on edge, etc.

[Jongle]

Thanks for the feedback Marshal and chewski. I tend to get along well with progressive mounts and somewhat forgiving tails (which the Squad definitely has), so I think the FR110 might be a better match for my style. Marshal, couple more questions on the FR110 if you don't mind:

- Can you compare it to the old 4FRNT Devastator if you've skied it?
- When carving the FR110, do the tips pull you into the turn or does it feel more like you're carving the portion directly under the bindings (like on a Hoji or Raven)?

[Marshal Olson]

Marshal, you gotten the FR110 on snow yet? Been on my Noctas today since we finally got snow, and the reverse camber has me excited all over again…


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Yeah man, I had a bunch of really good turns this weekend on what will be the production FR110. Its super fun. Ripping ski, but very smooth and surfy too. Really checks all the boxes I wanted to check with a modern shape. quick, nimble, smooth, not harsh, fast, easy, predictable. Definately a different ride that the FL skis who are really for charging down the fall line.

The FR is very capable and stable in big turns, but it can slice up the mountain like a scalpel too. I did try a pair that was a notch stiffer than production, and that was overkill, a little rough of a ride, and just wanted to charge (only), at the cost of being as surfy and quick. I think folks are going to LOVE the FR110... It was very rewarding for me. It thrives on technical lines with big aprons. You can get creative and slash the upper portion, stomp an air, and then carry speed and make large turns out the apron. Very Fun!

[Marshal Olson]

Thanks for the feedback Marshal and chewski. I tend to get along well with progressive mounts and somewhat forgiving tails (which the Squad definitely has), so I think the FR110 might be a better match for my style. Marshal, couple more questions on the FR110 if you don't mind:

- Can you compare it to the old 4FRNT Devastator if you've skied it?
- When carving the FR110, do the tips pull you into the turn or does it feel more like you're carving the portion directly under the bindings (like on a Hoji or Raven)?

Good questions.

- It's been a good 4-5 years since I last skied the Devestator, so not the best person. High level thoughts on what I remember... the OG Devestator always felt, to me, to need an inbetweener ski length. The 184 was 182 straight tape, and the 194 was 193 IIRC. The other things is that I think they are comparably smooth and stable of a ride, but I remember the 194 Dev to feel slightly sluggish (not as much rebound). The FR110 feels a little more poppy that I remember the 194 Dev.

- I would say the FR110 might be inbetween the two extremes, of say a Volkl reverse ski (old mantra & katana), that pulled you into the turn quite a bit; and the Hoji skis, that feel noticably like you are carving under foot. At least for me, the FR110 felt very intuitive and just skied like how I wanted it to the first turn, very predictable and clean on edge... though the ends of the ski do move a little bit when hauling, they aren't bouncing you around and getting you off line.

Hope that helps!

[ASmileyFace]

Yeah man, I had a bunch of really good turns this weekend on what will be the production FR110. Its super fun. Ripping ski, but very smooth and surfy too. Really checks all the boxes I wanted to check with a modern shape. quick, nimble, smooth, not harsh, fast, easy, predictable. Definately a different ride that the FL skis who are really for charging down the fall line.

The FR is very capable and stable in big turns, but it can slice up the mountain like a scalpel too. I did try a pair that was a notch stiffer than production, and that was overkill, a little rough of a ride, and just wanted to charge (only), at the cost of being as surfy and quick. I think folks are going to LOVE the FR110... It was very rewarding for me. It thrives on technical lines with big aprons. You can get creative and slash the upper portion, stomp an air, and then carry speed and make large turns out the apron. Very Fun!

So damn psyched! Wish I could get on them this year (since so many lines like you described are in finally in this big snowpack) but I will have to accept waiting till next season

[GuyonaBuffalo]

I tried searching this thread but I couldn’t find an answer, so forgive me. How thick are the bases and edges of the skis? I’m assuming the touring models are going to be lighter.

[phil_dirt]

I was logged in on my ipad and it posted through the 'Guyonabuffalo' account for some reason. Specs on edge size/base thickness?

[Marshal Olson]

I was logged in on my ipad and it posted through the 'Guyonabuffalo' account for some reason. Specs on edge size/base thickness?

Yessir! I am using standard 2mm bases/edges on all skis. No oversized snowboard stuff, and no undersized race/tour setups either.

[phil_dirt]

Yessir! I am using standard 2mm bases/edges on all skis. No oversized snowboard stuff, and no undersized race/tour setups either.

Awesome, thanks Marshal! I've ordered skis in the past that have wimpy construction, and I'm not a fan.

[ASmileyFace]

Marshal, when are you going to be getting samples of the BC110? Not that I need to buy another pair of skis, but after skiing my clapped out 108 underfoot backcountry setup the past few days I'm thinking about BC110 again.

[CaliBrit]

Yessir! I am using standard 2mm bases/edges on all skis. No oversized snowboard stuff, and no undersized race/tour setups either.

Oh so your tour ski weights like the BC110 are still with a full base vs like 1.4mm many use?

Nice.

[Marshal Olson]

Marshal, when are you going to be getting samples of the BC110? Not that I need to buy another pair of skis, but after skiing my clapped out 108 underfoot backcountry setup the past few days I'm thinking about BC110 again.

Got em here now!
Just have to wait til next week before I can ski them, as I gave myself a tibial plateau bone bruise over the weekend. sigh.
But any specific questions?