The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

[goolick]

Does Cast turn the Pivot into a totally flat binding? I have the Gripwalk AFDs. I am a long time Salomon skier, and just curious how bad the change in delta is going to fuck with me. Considering shimming before I even ski them.

Why wouldn't you just ski them first and see what you think?

[TexasGortex]

Early season restlessness

[justo8484]

Yup, it does. First day skiing my new CASTified pivots something felt "off" and I couldn't quite figure out what. They're on a ski that I previously had regular Pivot 15s on that I converted to CAST, so it was a pretty good back to back test. Did some research and per Moment's website which lists stack/delta for all the bindings they sell, CAST increases the toe height by 1mm, making for a a 0° delta. It took another day or two of skiing them until I didn't notice the (lack of) angle being different. I ski in a Lange XT Free 130 with pivots on everything, FWIW.

[eskido]

Hmmm, that’s interesting. I’m using the alpine afd’s and I never noticed a difference. I wonder if there’s a difference in the AFD’s or if I’m just numb to the change? I pretty much only ski pivots as well.

[robnow]

I wonder if there’s a difference in the AFD’s or if I’m just numb to the change?

This!!! It would take quite the princess and the pea to notice a 1mm change. More in somebody’s head than anything if they claim to notice.

[TexasGortex]

To be fair, I’m coming from Salomon bindings so it would be more like a 6mm difference.

[kid-kapow]

This!!! It would take quite the princess and the pea to notice a 1mm change. More in somebody’s head than anything if they claim to notice.

Actually, depends. If my math and measurements ( and recollection) are correct then a 1mm delta at my 292 bls = 2.6 degrees. This is based on actual measurements from ski to a fixed line on a given boot, not generic binding delta charts online (which are not always accurate - re for instance Tectons that I found to be 2mm lower in the heels than pivots, 3mm lower than Vipecs)

I cannot remember cast gw and regular pivot gw toes measuring in differently though. Sure, both will be toe high compared to old non shimmed p18 alpines, but still way flatter that sths (a binding that I cannot make work for the life of me due to delta).

and yeah, 1mm is within what I can make work - 2mm is not (on non full rocker skis), unless I am only skiing that ski/binding and adjust.

[altacoup]

I can’t for the life of me feels any difference, except release characteristics, between sth2, pivot and attack bindings and I have multiple pair of each. As far as release goes pivot>attack>sth2. I do notice dynafit ramp angle and old school dynafits are almost unskiable without a toe shim.

I’m about to mount 2 pairs of skis with CAST. Seems to be a lot of chatter that they are very sensitive to a good mount. I almost always mount my skis with paper jigs and at home. Should I give SFB some green to make sure my mount is good or are worries about the CAST exaggerated?


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[CHAIR_97]

I can’t for the life of me feels any difference, except release characteristics, between sth2, pivot and attack bindings and I have multiple pair of each. As far as release goes pivot>attack>sth2. I do notice dynafit ramp angle and old school dynafits are almost unskiable without a toe shim.

I’m about to mount 2 pairs of skis with CAST. Seems to be a lot of chatter that they are very sensitive to a good mount. I almost always mount my skis with paper jigs and at home. Should I give SFB some green to make sure my mount is good or are worries about the CAST exaggerated?


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You should definitely use a jig. I thought you held a grudge against dibs.

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[toast2266]

I’m about to mount 2 pairs of skis with CAST. Seems to be a lot of chatter that they are very sensitive to a good mount. I almost always mount my skis with paper jigs and at home. Should I give SFB some green to make sure my mount is good or are worries about the CAST exaggerated?


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I've mounted ~4 sets of casts with paper templates. They're all fine, and comparable to 1 or 2 that I've done with a jig. Make sure your holes are vertical, and when the screws are mostly tightened down, swap the alpine and touring toes back and forth a couple times. Then install the alpine toes and do a final tighten on the screws.

Sometimes they're a bit tight to start, but they'll work themselves out after a bit of use.

[waveshello]

I can’t for the life of me feels any difference, except release characteristics, between sth2, pivot and attack bindings and I have multiple pair of each. As far as release goes pivot>attack>sth2. I do notice dynafit ramp angle and old school dynafits are almost unskiable without a toe shim.

I’m about to mount 2 pairs of skis with CAST. Seems to be a lot of chatter that they are very sensitive to a good mount. I almost always mount my skis with paper jigs and at home. Should I give SFB some green to make sure my mount is good or are worries about the CAST exaggerated?


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Besides the points already mentioned, top sheets needs to be flat so tap + chamfer holes to avoid volcanoes.

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[kid-kapow]

just measured, and yes - Cast toes are indeed 1mm lower than Pivot GripWalk toes.

And yes, the bigger your Boot Sole Length the less 1mm delta matters, whereas 1mm could make a difference in ride feel / psosition for really short BSLs.

Kinda makes me wonder how terrible some binding/boot setups can be / is for especially (shorter / female) skiers with tiny feet. Like, no wonder some ladies struggle with their technique if their tiny BSLs also have to deal with massive delta. Their setups could be vastly different in terms of angles when compared to say a 330mm BSL in the same binding.

[toast2266]

Kinda makes me wonder how terrible some binding/boot setups can be / is for especially (shorter / female) skiers with tiny feet. Like, no wonder some ladies struggle with their technique if their tiny BSLs also have to deal with massive delta. Their setups could be vastly different in terms of angles when compared to say a 330mm BSL in the same binding.

The difference in delta between a 260 bsl and a 330 bsl is less than 1 degree. So it's not nothing, but I doubt it's making or breaking anyone's technique.

[mr_pretzel]

Old alpine pivot afd, 5mm delta
Cast Alpine 2-3mm delta
GW afd 1mm delta.

I can feel a big difference between the Gripwalk and the alpine afd, so much that I dont like skiing on the GW at all. The Cast I can notice but it’s less of an issue.

293mm BSL ZB’s.

Ymmv

[kid-kapow]

The difference in delta between a 260 bsl and a 330 bsl is less than 1 degree. So it's not nothing, but I doubt it's making or breaking anyone's technique.

yeah, wopsy - .1 to .2 degrees, so 100% does not matter.

Good thing I am not an engineer

Old alpine pivot afd, 5mm delta
Cast Alpine 2-3mm delta
GW afd 1mm delta.

I can feel a big difference between the Gripwalk and the alpine afd, so much that I dont like skiing on the GW at all. The Cast I can notice but it’s less of an issue.

293mm BSL ZB’s.

Ymmv

That is very interesting. For me it is the opposite - going over to Cast especially and GW was like unlocking magic. I am about as flexible as a 2x4 so that might factor into it.

[mildbill.]

I have been mounting skis for 25 years and getting CAST setup has been the worst experience I have ever had by 10x (shame on me for only reading this full thread last night)...

Some of it was due to reusing a mount (immediately required 1x helicoil), I went through the usual difficulties with alignment (put the tech toe in, put the other toe in etc) - got things seemingly dialed - both toes went on and off ok (mid december).

Went out and skied them (late dec.) - "geez, these are pretty rattly when I drop them on the snow to step in." There was play rockign the toepiece up and down and twisting it side to side with no boot. Put the boot in - there still seemed to be a tiny bit of play when levering the boot side to side (like putting ski on edge) - if I put my fingertip at that interface I can feel some movement.

CAST said - "there might be play when no boot in, but should be no play with boot in."

Pulled everything apart - hit the topsheets with a file, hit the metal plates with a file in case there was some epoxy overflash.

Remounted everything with epoxy - still side-to-side play as described above, maybe less play up and down.

Cast said - tighten more, don't strip. I tightened more, stripped all holes.

At that point I was forced to do inserts (except the 1 that was already helicoiled.) I don't usually fuck with inserts. This was my best pair of my Dynastar XXL stockpile, and was starting to get a little frankensteiny.

Check that the inserts are all countersunk, hit the topsheets MORE with a file just to be sure.

Bolt them all up - still feeling this rattle and shimmy, but both sets of toes are going on and off no problem, lock is correctly engaging, etc. Skied one day on them, seemingly worked ok.

Next day out on them - check all insert bolts before skiing - all tight. I can swear I'm feeling a rattle while skiing. Drop kids at ski team, step out of skis. Pick them up by the toepieces - still fucking rattling. FUCK IT - go back to the car and grab a pair mounted with dukes.

Get them back on the workbench - go to pull everything apart again and stare at the setup in frustration. Swapped on different pedestals (I got alpine and 9253s) - still have the issue. Figure - let's try posts from a second ski kit I have (I really went all in on CAST this year based on friend reccos).

I remove the BF insert screws, and then either I break the head of the helicoiled pozi screw (epoxied in place), or it broke while skiing - but either way the screw head fell out. So, solder and dremel, remove and replace screw, bolt all back up. Try different posts. Still have the issue. Mister_slim sends a video - he's got the side to side play with no boot but claims no miniscule play when boot in binding.

At this point - my daily inbounds P18-mounted xxls are without bindings because those bindings went to the CAST system. I have not had faith in the CAST system due to the rattle. I have not replaced the shifts on my touring skis becasue I don't want to run into the same CAST issues and be without a lighter setup. So I have spent the bulk of teh season on fucking dukes.

I guess my question is, am I:
a. - a crazy person putting a ton of fucking extra nonsense into this process because the play i'm feeling when the boot is in the binding is totally miniscule and it is the price of admission for having a toepiece that slides on and off and most people wouldn't even call it play
b. - a total hack that obviously has fucked this up in [x] way (bonus for defining X)
c. - in possession of some piece of CAST equipment outside of the usual mfg tolerance (bad batch of pedestals, bad batch of posts)
d. - some combo of the above.

I've been fucking around with these (and skiing dukes in the interim) since mid-december.

Thanks for reading.

[toast2266]

So if you put your boots into the binding on the bench, can you reproduce a rattle?

If so, it sounds like something is out of spec. Talk to Cast and get a warranty.

If not, it sounds like it's in your head.

[mildbill.]

It doesn't "rattle" with the boot in - but it is not as solid (can feel movement between pedestal, baseplate, and topsheet) as a normally mounted binding.

[NW_SKIER]

It doesn't "rattle" with the boot in - but it is not as solid (can feel movement between pedestal, baseplate, and topsheet) as a normally mounted binding.

You're feeling this movement while skiing? Mine rattle to all hell without a boot in them. Can't feel shit skiing them. So I don't care about it. I'm not on the world cup.

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[SkiLyft]

Yup, 1 of my 4 cast mounts rattle when a boot is not engaged. Can’t feel shit when skiing.


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[mildbill.]

Can’t feel shit when skiing.


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I can feel movement at the workbench when the boot is in - so I am wondering if there is a problem with the mount / system and I should not be skiing them.

Been soft here this winter so not really feeling it when skiing, but maybe? Hard to feel the rattle and not start jumping at shadows.

When on a lift for example, there isn't a clickety clickety when I bounce my foot up and down, as I have felt in the past with a stripped or backed out salomon toe height screw.

[NW_SKIER]

I think you're worrying about a non-issue here

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[mildbill.]

Seems like 3 votes for "a" so far.

[SkiLyft]

Honestly… what happened to that damn cascade component toe mount plate. That would have fixed this “issue”.


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[mildbill.]

Honestly… what happened to that damn cascade component toe mount plate. That would have fixed this “issue”.


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As one of the "give it to me before you even anodize it I want it NOW" purchasers of the very first batch v1 sentinel links, and a user of lifters on all of my p18 mounts except this cast one, I think I am a good target for their plate...