Alec Baldwin WTF

[supermodel159]

He's already been cleared legally.. and settled the civil suits. Still totally not his fault, and the authorities all agree on that. Now he's dragging the Armor and crew through the mud since he got caught in a bit of a lie himself.. All about his ego..

I felt sorry for him and had given him much benefit of doubt all along... until now. This is pretty shitty..

Wait...maybe not?

[leroy jenkins]

They had a scene where they needed what looked like loaded bullets in a revolver. The shells were loaded with an actual primer and a bullet, with no powder. At some point the gun was fired, and the bullet was pushed from the cylinder to the barrel. Then the ammo was changed for blanks for a shooting scene. The blank charge drove the bullet out of the barrel. Blanks can generate huge pressures if the burning powder is contained behind a bullet

This is an interesting explanation. This is called a squib load and in my understanding will explode a firearm if another round is fired behind it. Maybe that is only when the second round has its own projectile?

[old goat]

Anyone who handles a firearm is responsible for knowing if it's loaded and with what. Not something you take for granted or someone else's word for. The same applies to all potentially dangerous activites--flying, surgery come to mind. A lot of people die because someone took someone else's word for it or assumed someone else checked or otherwise did their job.
I imagine actors, the rich ones at least, get used to having people do stuff for them.

[XXX-er]

It was suposed to be a movieprop

[CarlMega]

It was suposed to be a movieprop

Exactly. While I think you can assign some negligence to an actor at the end of the trigger - it's a bit like after getting your moto back from the dealer/shop. Technically, you are supposed check tire pressure and about dozen other things before riding, even when they tell you they ran thru it and hand you back a vehicle 'set to go'. Or imagine that in a special circumstance like this - a race. Is the driver supposed to tire pressure check after a pit? And turns out low pressure causes a wreck. Come on. It is someone's specialized job - experts whom a layperson should trust.

I think about this one like if they put an actor behind a prop automobile. The assist director & stunt coordinator tell you: "sit here. look like you are driving, motion like you are swerving...." and during that scene the car hits someone. Well, who is ultimately responsible for the set safety? It's certainly not the same thing as driving on public roads. It's fucking acting. Regardless, there may be some extenuating circumstances - being reckless, etc - and Baldwin as a producer boss muddies it a bit. We'll see what happens.

[Garbowski]

There is a chain of command for a reason and with that goes the responsibility. An actors' job is to break the safety rules and look good doing it, others are responsible for figuring out how to make that happen safely. The responsibility flows in a different direction when a technologist hands a doctor the wrong item or a pilot gets navigation advice from a first officer or flight attendant.

That being said, everyone is responsible for safety and everyone involved should be aware and ready to call anything out. Plenty of people in the room could have asked for a triple check of the weapon but we aren't blaming them because this was ultimately an accident and the buck stops with the armorer. Not to victim blame, but it also seems like a fundamental safety issue when multiple people were in the line of fire.

Baldwin the producer may bear some responsibility if there was negligence in hiring a competent armorer or providing a safe workplace, but I feel as an actor he is at no more fault than the writer or director. Actors cannot be expected have any expert knowledge or responsibility for firearms, pyrotechnics, etc. - would we be having this conversation if he lit the match that led to the burning building scene getting out of control and killing someone?

[Cono Este]

Is this essentially the same thing as killing someone on a car wreck that wasn't entirely your fault? Seems so to me.

He'll skate, the armor might not since it was her job to be sure there were not live bullets in the guns there.. Only way Baldwin gets hit harder than she does is if they can prove he told them to ignore the safety protocols designed to prevent this shit from happening.

I don’t think they give a shit about Hollywood rules. He pointed a gun at someone and they died It was not a prop gun either. That is what will do him in.

[The AD]

Actors cannot be expected have any expert knowledge or responsibility for firearms

And maybe the prosecution is trying to make a bigger statement about firearm safety in movies in general. Right now the actor thinks they shouldn't have to worry because the armorer has done their job, but what if they screwed up? Well, this incident is what happens. So perhaps there should never be a situation where an actor is pointing a gun directly at somebody because mistakes can happen, the gun can be fired with live ammo, and someone can get shot. I don't think the fact that it's "for a movie" is a good excuse to aim a gun at someone.

As the prosecutor said:
“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

[Meadow Skipper]

And maybe the prosecution is trying to make a bigger statement about firearm safety in movies in general.

I was thinking this yesterday. There are an awful lot of films shot in New Mexico, and this will probably send a strong message to the production companies. Some sets are shitshows (like this one seems to have been) and could use some serious safety messaging.

[XXX-er]

And maybe the prosecution is trying to make a bigger statement about firearm safety in movies in general. Right now the actor thinks they shouldn't have to worry because the armorer has done their job, but what if they screwed up? Well, this incident is what happens. So perhaps there should never be a situation where an actor is pointing a gun directly at somebody because mistakes can happen, the gun can be fired with live ammo, and someone can get shot. I don't think the fact that it's "for a movie" is a good excuse to aim a gun at someone.

As the prosecutor said:
“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

he sounded like she running for public office office or something

[old goat]

There are several of you who I hope are not handling firearms.
There are certainly situations in which you have to defer to experts--the pilot can do a walk around and go through the checklist but they have to trust that the last mechanic who worked on the plane did it right. I hope my pilot checks the fuel gauge before we take off though.
Handling a firearm doesn't require expert knowledge. If part of your job is pointing a gun at people and pulling the trigger than you damn well better know how to tell if it's loaded and whether the bullets are prop or real and you'd better check. Same with the AD who handed Baldwin the gun.
And you don't even need blanks. Most of the time the sound of the shot isn't dramatic enough so the foley editor puts in a more convincing sound post production.
Part of the problem is that there are so many guns shot so many times in so many movies that people don't take them seriously.

[Ted Striker]

These pilot analogies are terrible. Everything is the Captain's responsibility. That's literally why they're paid better than every other person in the operation. To take the blame.

[BCMtnHound]

These pilot analogies are terrible. Everything is the Captain's responsibility. That's literally why they're paid better than every other person in the operation. To take the blame.

Heh. Yup. There’s a reason the captain prefers to go down with the ship.

[The AD]

I was thinking this yesterday. There are an awful lot of films shot in New Mexico, and this will probably send a strong message to the production companies. Some sets are shitshows (like this one seems to have been) and could use some serious safety messaging.

And I'm pretty confident that with today's technology and equipment you should be able to film a scene showing someone shooting someone else without literally having to point a gun at them (or anyone else) and pulling the trigger.

[Garbowski]

I doubt that someone in New Mexico get prosecuted in every single hunting accident that causes injury.

I get the point, but does that logic only apply to guns and not any other hazard in a movie that can possibly be created by an actor following the script and trusting the instructions of actual safety experts? To me that says in New Mexico they don't want movies made with scenes that depict actors participating in potentially unsafe behaviors. Crimes too- if a propmaster accidently sources a brick of real cocaine I suppose the actors should not get a free pass either- their possession is on film after all.

There are certainly lessons to be learned and improvements to be made here, but I don't think declaring actors ultimately responsible for weapon or any other aspect of movie set safety is going to help matters.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Maybe this was already answered but what happened to the person that shot and killed Brandon Lee on set? Or the helicopter pilot that decapitated Vic Morrow in the Twilight Zone movie? Did they go to jail?

I get the point, but does that logic only apply to guns and not any other hazard in a movie that can possibly be created by an actor following the script and trusting the instructions of actual safety experts? To me that says in New Mexico they don't want movies made with scenes that depict actors participating in potentially unsafe behaviors. Crimes too- if a propmaster accidently sources a brick of real cocaine I suppose the actors should not get a free pass either- their possession is on film after all.

There are certainly lessons to be learned and improvements to be made here, but I don't think declaring actors ultimately responsible for weapon or any other aspect of movie set safety is going to help matters.

That's what I'm wondering. I get that Alec Baldwin is a polarizing figure and one that a certain segment of the population really hates, but how have similar incidents been dealt with? I would think wrongful death lawsuits, but not a criminal charge for the person at the end of the gun or helicopter or you name it for what amounts to a horrible accident.

that said, maybe Baldwin had intent...and did it on purpose. is that what some are arguing here?

[XXX-er]

These pilot analogies are terrible. Everything is the Captain's responsibility. That's literally why they're paid better than every other person in the operation. To take the blame.

An actor gets paid to point a gun at someone and shoot them

A chopper engineer bought me a beer last night and we got talking about this, he sez he signs off on every thing and it has to be right, he is not super anal about life as a rule but he is with whatever he sign off on for the birds

[SumJongGuy]

There are several of you who I hope are not handling firearms.
There are certainly situations in which you have to defer to experts--the pilot can do a walk around and go through the checklist but they have to trust that the last mechanic who worked on the plane did it right. I hope my pilot checks the fuel gauge before we take off though.
Handling a firearm doesn't require expert knowledge. If part of your job is pointing a gun at people and pulling the trigger than you damn well better know how to tell if it's loaded and whether the bullets are prop or real and you'd better check. Same with the AD who handed Baldwin the gun.
And you don't even need blanks. Most of the time the sound of the shot isn't dramatic enough so the foley editor puts in a more convincing sound post production.
Part of the problem is that there are so many guns shot so many times in so many movies that people don't take them seriously.

Some actor's aren't "gun guys". That's a big reason why the Armor and crew needs to idiotproof everything that's potentially lethal.. It's their fucking job. It's clear he either he didn't realize he was pulling the trigger while cocking the gun or it malfunctioned.. Rich guy trusts the so called professional people they hired to be sure the bullets in the gun aren't real... That's all he's guilty of here..

[Cono Este]

It was not a prop, it was real. No one should handle a gun unless they understand they are responsible for it, responsible to safety check it, and responsible for where you point it. No exceptions. I’m sure alex has been around enough guns, probably more than most in his career, and he knew how to do that. Playing dumb won’t work.

[bennymac]

I guess all these actors need to check the brake lines of any vehicle they drive on set.

And a doctor in an ER running a code better draw up their own medications and inject them into the patient themselves.

There are degrees of responsibility. The court will decide his as a producer. As an actor he can easily defend himself - the whole purpose of an armourer on set is gun safety. You guys seem to think any actor who handles a gun needs to be trained to the same level as the armourer. Where does the need for redundancy end?

And again with any directors. And any producer.

Fuck it let's get craft services trained up.

[Adolf Allerbush]

It was not a prop, it was real. No one should handle a gun unless they understand they are responsible for it, responsible to safety check it, and responsible for where you point it. No exceptions. I’m sure alex has been around enough guns, probably more than most in his career, and he knew how to do that. Playing dumb won’t work.

Ok. So the guy that killed Brandon Lee went to jail then? Same with the helicopter pilot in my example above?

[MakersTeleMark]

1: the shot called for the gun looking to be loaded
2: he states he didn't even pull the trigger

This case against him is a hudge waste of time and money. That da is going to look like a fool. But nm gotta nm.

[Garbowski]

Ok. So the guy that killed Brandon Lee went to jail then? Same with the helicopter pilot in my example above?

The guy who killed Brandon Lee was not prosecuted.

Pilot, director, production manager, producer, and explosives specialist were tried but acquitted on all counts in this awful helicopter one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident
https://web.archive.org/web/20131024...licopter-crash

Doubt the actor who followed script to carry children to what ended up being a dangerous spot would have been prosecuted had he survived.

[Adolf Allerbush]

The guy who killed Brandon Lee was not prosecuted.

Pilot, director, production manager, producer, and explosives specialist were tried but acquitted on all counts in this awful helicopter one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident
https://web.archive.org/web/20131024...licopter-crash

Doubt the actor who followed script to carry children to what ended up being a dangerous spot would have been prosecuted had he survived.

ok, so why is Alec Baldwin's case different? Did he have motive(s) to kill the director? Is the idea that he took the gun and reloaded it with live ammo and then shot the director in cold blood? Seriously trying to understand Cono's argument here.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

He made fun of Cono's president.

Baldwin is also a huge gaping asshole. And it was also a shitty low budget film with poorly trained armorers. Only one of these should be pursued in a legal case - the armorer and her failings.