Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

[XavierD]

I wonder if they end up moving CHX to another part of the mountain/replace GV or Rex with it if they are building the base to CB gondola? Maybe it becomes the new Bulion lift?
That lift is pretty much just used to get to Rex or 9.
Ideally it stays, keeping another route to move people out of the base in the morning.

Not mentioned is widening the blvd and 410 to get all these extra cars they are filling G, H, and I lots with up and down the mountain.

[The AD]

I totally agree with your take on what Whistler has become. My buddies and I joke that we save our Arcteryx gear for apres ski and for walking around the village. Whistler is a place where many people come for a “ski vacation” not just to ski. The recipe that town has put together really seems to be working.

I basically only go up before Christmas or after Spring Break when things are cheaper. Late March and the whole month of April is great skiing and you can actually find a place to stay without taking out a second mortgage.

I work for Boeing and it seems like Stevens is more popular with that crowd than Crystal, but it might also be because my work location is Everett.

[Ørion]

How about the “Campbell Basin Gondola”? I must have missed that before.

Attachment 431829

If you haven't listened already, The Storm Skiing Podcast interviewed DeBerry last year and he went into it a bit. It is obviously not a critical or hard-hitting interview but I found it interesting.

[nickwm21]

These resort operators look at “out-of-base lift capacity” separate from “total lift capacity”… Out of base meaning the capacity of the commuter lifts that get you up from the parking lot. Mountains like Palisades, Vail, Whistler famously have terrible out-of-base capacity but if you get out and up the mountain early you “can” ski short lines, at least for some of the day.

…Crystal, OTOH, needs to increase both types of lift capacity…

Adding capacity from Base to CB and the added terrain is an attempt to fix both and I think it’s money well spent….

Regarding the added grooming at Northway…. I bet that will be a massive improvement… I know the Crustiest of Crystalites will talk shit… but it really is what that zone needs.

*They are however missing the elephant in the room*


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[Ørion]

(...)

Regarding the added grooming at Northway…. I bet that will be a massive improvement… I know the Crustiest of Crystalites will talk shit… but it really is what that zone needs.


(...)

At the very least it'll help Northway absorb some of the crowds on any non-powder day. It's an absolute ghost town compared to the rest of the resort if snow hasn't fallen recently.

Still won't be terribly popular unless they upgrade the lift though.

[nickwm21]

. Still won't be terribly popular unless they upgrade the lift though.

We’ll of course - and add the “Kelly’s Gap” chair…


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[bfree]

We’ll of course - and add the “Kelly’s Gap” chair…


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That's the only proposed change that would improve my experience. That area has some fantastic terrain and it would be nice to access it without all the traversing.

I suppose Campbell basin lift will be nice too, but that seems like it should be a chair rather than a gondola. Turning FQ into an 8-pack would seem to be a good interim fix.

[altasnob]

If you haven't listened already, The Storm Skiing Podcast interviewed DeBerry last year and he went into it a bit. It is obviously not a critical or hard-hitting interview but I found it interesting.

Thanks for sharing that. Around 1:06 Frank talks about how his plan is to put a lift in Bullion Basin and then try to convince the Forest Service to change their mind and allow a lift to the top of of East Peak. Frank talks about wanting to host an Olympics downhill course from the top of East Peak.

[bfree]

Thanks for sharing that. Around 1:06 Frank talks about how his plan is to put a lift in Bullion Basin and then try to convince the Forest Service to change their mind and allow a lift to the top of of East Peak. Frank talks about wanting to host an Olympics downhill course from the top of East Peak.

I'm down for that, but the backcountry community would shit a brick. I don't really care since the traffic/parking fiasco has made it so I rarely tour there anyways. One of the nice things about touring is that you don't need to leave at 530am to ski some nice snow, but that doesn't work at xtal anymore.

[XavierD]

I don’t know if making short north a quicker lap is what that area needs.

[altasnob]

I don’t know if making short north a quicker lap is what that area needs.

In that podcast above, Frank says the main reason the Forest Service denied Crystal the permit to put a lift up East Peak was because the Forest Service didn't believe there was a need for it. Frank may be right that this played a larger role than the backcountry preservation and the fact the top of the lift would be right on the wilderness boundary and pass over the top of the Pacific Crest trail.

So in Frank's mind, the only way he has a chance to act on his dream of putting a chair up East Peak is to make it so all the lifts at Crystal are packed, all of the time, so he can demonstrate his "need" for more lifts and terrain to the Forest Service.

[RichV]

The Forest service doesn't want a lift to cross the Pacific Crest trail, so the Campbell Basin lift will likely never happen. I did talk to John once about installing a Glacier Tbar that could be removed at the end of the ski season. He seemed interested in the idea. I doubt there is a significantly positive business case for it.

What I really miss about the old Crystal was the bus out of lower Northway. I rarely skied lower Northway, but I skied down the the bus pick up point all of the time. Pre-Covid, I would skate the road out to the Blvd and hitch hike back to the area. I have had to walk all the way up the Blvd once.

[The AD]

The Forest service doesn't want a lift to cross the Pacific Crest trail, so the Campbell Basin lift will likely never happen.

Hasn't that ship already sailed at both Snoqualmie and Stevens?

[XavierD]

Doesn’t the PCT only cross into the SUP around Pickhandle, Crown Pt, Bullion and East Peak?

[phatty]

Hasn't that ship already sailed at both Snoqualmie and Stevens?

Yep

[bfree]

Doesn’t the PCT only cross into the SUP around Pickhandle, Crown Pt, Bullion and East Peak?

Rich must have meant East Peak lift rather than Campbell Basin.

Maybe the FS argues Stevens and Snoq were grandfathered in since the lifts were there before the PCT was designated.

[altasnob]

Hasn't that ship already sailed at both Snoqualmie and Stevens?

Before people express opinion on an East Peak chair, I'd recommend going there in both summer and winter. It's a special place, and a lift would crush the ambiance year round. It would also crush Crystal's guided snow shoe business, as Bullion Basin is the best easy/moderate snowshoe route. Who wants to snowshoe to a place with a bunch of downhill skiers coming down?

East Peak is the blue with the PCT below and wilderness boundary on the ridge crest

[The AD]

I haven't, but I definitely agree with you in principle. A few weeks ago I did the hike along the PCT through Sourdough Gap over to the trail above Crystal Lake. It certainly wouldn't be as scenic with lift infrastructure dotting the landscape.

[XavierD]

Instead of a lift, I think they should explore making East Peak a ‘developed touring’ area. Managed routes to the top, some limited avalanche work, marked areas down.
I think there is a market for people looking to move under their own power, but not necessarily take risks either. Adds to the developed ski terrain with less cost then building a new lift. Put a warming hit /patio deck with $5 coffee, $8 beer, and $20 sandwiches in bullion basin.

Snow shoe trails through the trees up to and around bullion basin, marked skin tracks to Bullion Peak and East Peak, a trail map to let people know ‘where they are’

Sign that shit and make money off PCT through hikers in the summer with ice cream and cold drinks.

Vail/Stevens could likely do well with this model at Yodelin too.

[altasnob]

That's a great idea as a compromise. Crystal can makes some bucks but the bc community can continue to have access. I think even a small parking fee, of say $5 is appropriate to cover the costs of patrol, and plowing the parking lot.

I don't think Frank sees the world like this though. He strikes me as a clueless East Coaster who doesn't understand and hasn't explored much of the Cascades.

[bfree]

I think even a small parking fee, of say $5 is appropriate to cover the costs of patrol, and plowing the parking lot.

You might have thought $1000 would be appropriate for an RV season pass too? I'd double it, then double it again, and then maybe double it another time for good measure.

[XavierD]

Xtal could have probably left pass prices alone, and just added a $30/day $500/season parking pass fee for the year and achieved the same effect on improved traffic/parking.

[altasnob]

You might have thought $1000 would be appropriate for an RV season pass too? I'd double it, then double it again, and then maybe double it another time for good measure.

Ya, $5 is probably too low. But Crystal would be getting something in exchange. The back country, and environmental community, would drop their opposition to any form of commercialization of East Peak.

Personally, I don't think Crystal ever builds an East Peak chair because the back country, hiking, and environmental community has clout in Washington. Yes, there are a lot more lift skiers now than in 2004 when the Forest Service last made a ruling on East Peak. But there the growth of backcountry skiers has gone up even faster in the last two decades. Not to mention the hiking community has exploded in growth as well. So if I am Crystal, I rather compromise with the opposition so Crystal can get something of value, and something they can use for marketing.

It makes so much sense, which assures that it will never happen.

[ptavv]

I'd bet that there'll be a lift up East Peak within 10 years. Crystal is the only ski area around with reasonably good un-utilized terrain in their SUP area to expand into. Snow sliding is growing. There's too much money and too much appetite for more skiable acres, regardless of what all the hikers and PCTers say. I recall Crystal has already offered in the past to pay to reroute the PCT out of the Norse Peak burn scar and around the back side of East Peak to fix the issue and I imagine when the environmentalists are faced with a PCT under a lift, or a new trail with better scenery anyway, they'll take the deal.

[Northway]

I'd bet that there'll be a lift up East Peak within 10 years

A lift up East Peak makes way more sense than just the lower elevation Bullion Basin lift, as it would add some legit terrain that would make a somewhat detached area from the main ski area worth riding. A lower lift only like was there in the past wouldn’t be much of a draw except for a place to go to escape a really crowded day.

I’ve often wondered if a lift ran right up to the ridge crest how backcountry access would be managed there with Cement and Union basin terrain staring you in the face off the top of the lift.

Gates and signage, like they have elsewhere off north, south and the cache I guess, but that is some wide open beautiful avy terrain with a history of fatalities that would be so easily accessible. Maybe a way to configure the top of the lift a bit below the ridge. Which might be needed due to wilderness boundary anyway.