Dynastar M-Free 108 vs. Moment Deathwish

[PeaHead96]

Trying to decide on my daily driver for this upcoming season. It's either going to be:

Dynastar M-Free 108 192 (would mount +2 of recommended)

or

Moment DW 184 or 190 (need help on deciding length)



About to head into my 3rd ski season. I'll probably manage 30 days at the resort this winter, as that's what I've averaged the last two winters. I would consider myself an intermediate.

Most of the skiing I enjoy at my local resort is all of the off-piste (tight trees, natural jumps, steeps, bumps, little drops, etc). I want a daily driver that is super playful and enables me to progress and gain confidence. Being able to throw the ski sideways really easily, slash, and pivot on a dime are the most important things for me. I'm definitely not a charger, but would like to be able to progress to that point eventually. I'm getting better at jumping off things and would like to eventually get better at riding switch. I'm willing to accept a ski that sucks a little more on firm snow if it's more fun on soft snow days. I have skis for those super deep days, but would prefer if this ski could handle all the other powder days.

Skis that I have previous experience on are the BC Atris 189 and 4frnt Switch 184. I love the Atris', but they have tech bindings and I use them for touring. I didn't really click with the 4frnt's though, I felt as if they were too stiff and I couldn't really utilize the park application that those skis were designed to accommodate (b/c there isn't a park at my resort).

I'm 6'1" (186cm) and 190 lbs if those are useful metrics.

Reading all the positive reviews about the DW certainly has me leaning towards them, but I'm a bit unsure about which length would be better. I've also read a lot of great things about the M-Free, but the 192 length doesn't seem like it would be very conducive to tight trees.

Anyways, I appreciate it guys.

[TurxSki]

About to head into my 3rd ski season. I'll probably manage 30 days at the resort this winter...

Where do you ski?
Maybe you can make it 60 ski days this season?


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[2FUNKY]

Switched off last season one day with another maggot. He has the 190 DW104 and I the 192 Mfree 108. I absolutely love the Mfree. I’m a little shorter but same weight. I have zero issues in tight trees on either of them.
They are both super fun skis. The DW didn’t have the soft so characteristics of the Mfree. The DW wasn’t bad, just not the same float in pow or quite as loose. They both handled chop about the same. DW had a slight advantage on groomers. Both pivoted fine when need and none felt locked in and were happy to release and make any turn shape I wanted or went straight just fine.
The DW felt more playful to me as they are lighter and more center mounted.
If you want something more soft snow oriented, go Mfree in 192.
If more firm snow oriented, go DW 104 in 190.
Based on your own described ability you could easily go with the shorter lengths and be happy as well.
Buy either one and be happy as they both are super sick skis.


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[doebedoe]

I've only spent a few hours on the MFree but my experience aligns with 2FUNKYs. I'm on the DW104 most days inbounds. If I didn't have (too many) pow skis I would prefer the 108 as it is better in soft snow. DW is notably more fun on groomers and chalk.

[PeaHead96]

Switched off last season one day with another maggot. He has the 190 DW104 and I the 192 Mfree 108. I absolutely love the Mfree. I’m a little shorter but same weight. I have zero issues in tight trees on either of them.
They are both super fun skis. The DW didn’t have the soft so characteristics of the Mfree. The DW wasn’t bad, just not the same float in pow or quite as loose. They both handled chop about the same. DW had a slight advantage on groomers. Both pivoted fine when need and none felt locked in and were happy to release and make any turn shape I wanted or went straight just fine.
The DW felt more playful to me as they are lighter and more center mounted.
If you want something more soft snow oriented, go Mfree in 192.
If more firm snow oriented, go DW 104 in 190.
Based on your own described ability you could easily go with the shorter lengths and be happy as well.
Buy either one and be happy as they both are super sick skis.


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Have you spent any time on the normal DW? I sent some emails back and forth with Moment, and also read the blister reviews on all of Moment's offerings. I came to the conclusion that I would actually prefer the Wildcat 108 over the DW104. And then I decided that I would rather have the DW over the WC108 because of slightly better flotation.

[PeaHead96]

I've only spent a few hours on the MFree but my experience aligns with 2FUNKYs. I'm on the DW104 most days inbounds. If I didn't have (too many) pow skis I would prefer the 108 as it is better in soft snow. DW is notably more fun on groomers and chalk.

Any experience on the DW? Not the DW104. Emailing with Moment and reading blister reviews makes me feel like the DW104 is not what I'm looking for in a ski. Descriptions don't make it seem as playful and loose as the normal DW.

[PeaHead96]

Where do you ski?
Maybe you can make it 60 ski days this season?


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Not sure what the attached photo is supposed to be telling me but yeah maybe I could get in more days this winter

[2FUNKY]

Have you spent any time on the normal DW? I sent some emails back and forth with Moment, and also read the blister reviews on all of Moment's offerings. I came to the conclusion that I would actually prefer the Wildcat 108 over the DW104. And then I decided that I would rather have the DW over the WC108 because of slightly better flotation.

No I have not. Call me crazy but a 112 underfoot ski would not by my personal pick for a DD, well unless you only ski during storm or new snow days.
Since you have skis for super deep days, I would add a 104-108 ski in there, esp for the daily duties. Plus these skis will enable you to work on turns using the edges and the TR of the ski making you a better overall skier and not just skiddering around the hill.



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[doebedoe]

Any experience on the DW? Not the DW104. Emailing with Moment and reading blister reviews makes me feel like the DW104 is not what I'm looking for in a ski. Descriptions don't make it seem as playful and loose as the normal DW.

Yes. Lots. On my 3rd pair. DW was my first cold-dead-hands ski.

I don't think the 104 is much more demanding than the OG. Maybe a hair. It is notably quicker in bumps and on the groomed. It's plenty loose with a pretty similar rocker profile and the same shape as the OG DW. The WC108 is better in soft but less entertaining on hard snow. It's a more direct comparison to the MFree.

[CHAIR_97]

Trying to decide on my daily driver for this upcoming season. It's either going to be:

Dynastar M-Free 108 192 (would mount +2 of recommended)

or

Moment DW 184 or 190 (need help on deciding length)



About to head into my 3rd ski season. I'll probably manage 30 days at the resort this winter, as that's what I've averaged the last two winters. I would consider myself an intermediate.

Most of the skiing I enjoy at my local resort is all of the off-piste (tight trees, natural jumps, steeps, bumps, little drops, etc). I want a daily driver that is super playful and enables me to progress and gain confidence. Being able to throw the ski sideways really easily, slash, and pivot on a dime are the most important things for me. I'm definitely not a charger, but would like to be able to progress to that point eventually. I'm getting better at jumping off things and would like to eventually get better at riding switch. I'm willing to accept a ski that sucks a little more on firm snow if it's more fun on soft snow days. I have skis for those super deep days, but would prefer if this ski could handle all the other powder days.

Skis that I have previous experience on are the BC Atris 189 and 4frnt Switch 184. I love the Atris', but they have tech bindings and I use them for touring. I didn't really click with the 4frnt's though, I felt as if they were too stiff and I couldn't really utilize the park application that those skis were designed to accommodate (b/c there isn't a park at my resort).

I'm 6'1" (186cm) and 190 lbs if those are useful metrics.

Reading all the positive reviews about the DW certainly has me leaning towards them, but I'm a bit unsure about which length would be better. I've also read a lot of great things about the M-Free, but the 192 length doesn't seem like it would be very conducive to tight trees.

Anyways, I appreciate it guys.

Don't mount the mfree any further forward then +1. +2 puts you way ahead of camber on that ski. Newschool pros are at +1 .

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[PeaHead96]

No I have not. Call me crazy but a 112 underfoot ski would not by my personal pick for a DD, well unless you only ski during storm or new snow days.
Since you have skis for super deep days, I would add a 104-108 ski in there, esp for the daily duties. Plus these skis will enable you to work on turns using the edges and the TR of the ski making you a better overall skier and not just skiddering around the hill.



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Yeah the 112 underfoot sounds crazy to me too, but there is such a massive following behind the DW, and everyone says that it performs as well on hardpack as their skis closer to 100mm width. The triple camber is really interesting. I also might be slightly favoring them because of the sick topsheet haha - I know I've gotta drop that sort of reasoning it's just for whatever reason a somewhat small decisive factor as well.

I definitely ski during shitty hardpack conditions, and I'm definitely someone that skids around too much - I'll admit that.

The DW104 does sound really interesting now. If it's still fun and manueverable in soft snow conditions I would be more than willing to consider that.

[PeaHead96]

Yes. Lots. On my 3rd pair. DW was my first cold-dead-hands ski.

I don't think the 104 is much more demanding than the OG. Maybe a hair. It is notably quicker in bumps and on the groomed. It's plenty loose with a pretty similar rocker profile and the same shape as the OG DW. The WC108 is better in soft but less entertaining on hard snow. It's a more direct comparison to the MFree.

Alright well scenario here for ya... gun to your head, there's boot deep powder, and you've got to ski tight and steep trees. What would you want to bring: DW, DW104, WC108? Also, what length? 184 or 190? And you're 6'1" 190 lbs and are in your third ski season; you're an advancing intermediate. Lastly, you've got to use this ski for shitty days at the hill too. The only other ski you're allowed to own is a full purpose powder oriented ski (something around 120 underfoot).

[PeaHead96]

Don't mount the mfree any further forward then +1. +2 puts you way ahead of camber on that ski. Newschool pros are at +1 .

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Damn, I have read that several people were mounting them at +2. I definitely prefer a more neutral stance. I've liked the way that skis that are -5/-6 from true center feel and ski. I'm not burning down the mountain at mach jesus yet, so being able to throw the ski's sideways and shut things down in sketchy terrain is a must for me.

[kid-kapow]

Don't mount the mfree any further forward then +1. +2 puts you way ahead of camber on that ski. Newschool pros are at +1 .

The section behind the binding is significantly shorter than the part in front, so there is a lot of room to move the binding before moving forward of the camber. I think Sander Hadley mentioned in some interview (as it blister?) that he has been riding his as far forward as +4.

I can't remember the actual numbers/measurements, but I have measured it. I have also thought a lot about it/camber because of the somewhat surprising find. The "imbalance" was so stark that figuring out how what is a natural imbalance between the front and rear contact points makes the skis so loose on piste made rethink camber all together. Re below - you get the general idea even if it is not accurate to the mm.



For reference, I mount my 189/192s at +1.5, my 182/"185"s at +1 (1.5 didn't feel right for me on the 182s, nor did the line - 1 was money). Both skis ski fine on the line, but where moving +1 on the shorter length made the ski feel stronger and more capable when driving the skis, whereas the 192 felt more balance / less tip heavy for my tiny bsl at 293.

[NW_SKIER]

Alright well scenario here for ya... gun to your head, there's boot deep powder, and you've got to ski tight and steep trees. What would you want to bring: DW, DW104, WC108? Also, what length? 184 or 190? And you're 6'1" 190 lbs and are in your third ski season; you're an advancing intermediate. Lastly, you've got to use this ski for shitty days at the hill too. The only other ski you're allowed to own is a full purpose powder oriented ski (something around 120 underfoot).

M free 108

[gaijin]

Every time you guys dork out on changing mount points I just assume you’re not designers or engineers for the given brand that designed said ski.

So, there’s that.


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[gaijin]

I’m so glad that listening to 15yo kids mounting their skis at +2 is not something I do.


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[PeaHead96]

The section behind the binding is significantly shorter than the part in front, so there is a lot of room to move the binding before moving forward of the camber. I think Sander Hadley mentioned in some interview (as it blister?) that he has been riding his as far forward as +4.

I can't remember the actual numbers/measurements, but I have measured it. I have also thought a lot about it/camber because of the somewhat surprising find. The "imbalance" was so stark that figuring out how what is a natural imbalance between the front and rear contact points makes the skis so loose on piste made rethink camber all together. Re below - you get the general idea even if it is not accurate to the mm.



For reference, I mount my 189/192s at +1.5, my 182/"185"s at +1 (1.5 didn't feel right for me on the 182s, nor did the line - 1 was money). Both skis ski fine on the line, but where moving +1 on the shorter length made the ski feel stronger and more capable when driving the skis, whereas the 192 felt more balance / less tip heavy for my tiny bsl at 293.

Yeah I believe the guys at Blister wrote up reviews on the M-Free in the 182 and 192 lengths. Two of the reviewers preferred it mounted at +1 or +2; more balanced in the air and easier to pivot. Which sounds pretty nice to me.

What's your take on my dilemma? You ski in Norway, and helped me out with the Togga decision on another thread. Moment's offerings sound really nice for someone who prefers a more centered stance, but the M-Free sounds like a favorite among a lot of people. That 192 length worries me in the trees though.

Two other guys brought up the DW104 earlier in this thread, and I'm starting to think that a 104 waisted ski might be more advantageous for those firm days - that is unless the normal DW or M-Free 108 are only slightly worse on hardpack, meaning that I would potentially enjoy the tradeoff of a ski that has a bit more float.

[PeaHead96]

Well not to spoil the fun for everyone, but I found a pair brand new pair of M-Free 99 185s for half price. So I bought them. And I had already snagged a pair of M-Free 108 192s for next to half price a couple of weeks ago.

I was originally going to sell the 108s if I didn't want to keep them and then use that money towards something from Moment. But now I have a 99 and 108 waisted ski in my quiver, so I feel pretty set. Whatever I bought from Moment was going to cost what I spent so far on these two skis from Dynastar. I'd still love to try something from Moment, but maybe that'll have to wait until next year.

Anyways, thoughts on where to mount these skis are more than welcome. I can also move this over to the Dynastar thread if that's more appropriate. Don't want to anger those who are sensitive to mount points other than factory recommended.

[Sargentdrufus]

Alright well scenario here for ya... gun to your head, there's boot deep powder, and you've got to ski tight and steep trees. What would you want to bring: DW, DW104, WC108? Also, what length? 184 or 190? And you're 6'1" 190 lbs and are in your third ski season; you're an advancing intermediate. Lastly, you've got to use this ski for shitty days at the hill too. The only other ski you're allowed to own is a full purpose powder oriented ski (something around 120 underfoot).

I would go 184 DW without any hesitation.

Take this however you want, I'm 6'1 210 I exclusively tour and over the past 2 years have put my 184 DWT through any and all snow conditions and any and all terrain conditions. It is the only ski I take out. I have a ~100mm ski that I hung on to thinking I would want it for the firmer or low tide days and I have not used them once since getting the DWT, there are zero scenarios where that other ski provides an advantage over the DWT. If I was buying for resort I can't think of any other ski outside of the DW that I would want for what you have listed, or for what the Wasatch has to offer. Firm or soft, tight or open, steep or mellow, the DW/DWT is all you need.

[kid-kapow]

What's your take on my dilemma? Y

I freaking love M-Frees - 99s, 108s and 118s alike.

The good folks over at Moment make killer skis too, but there is something that is just so right with M-Frees. I doubt you will be dissapointed. I have no time on either width DWs, just Wildcat 108s - a ski I really liked too, if not MF108 level love. MF108s weigh more and are looser, but still plenty stable and as comfortable on edge as WC108s.

Just keep in mind that the 185 99 is the same length as a 182 MF108, so 181.5 straight pull. They will ski a fair bit shorter than MF108 192s and should be loose as a goose at your weight/height. They will not float amazingly, but they should be off the charts in terms of nimbleness.

192s are plenty loose too, especially given their length. I would not overthink this, especially given your height/weight. You have bought the correct length 108s imho.

So rest assured that you have bought two awesome pairs of skis that are both TGR approved, especially the 108s

[CHAIR_97]

The section behind the binding is significantly shorter than the part in front, so there is a lot of room to move the binding before moving forward of the camber. I think Sander Hadley mentioned in some interview (as it blister?) that he has been riding his as far forward as +4.

I can't remember the actual numbers/measurements, but I have measured it. I have also thought a lot about it/camber because of the somewhat surprising find. The "imbalance" was so stark that figuring out how what is a natural imbalance between the front and rear contact points makes the skis so loose on piste made rethink camber all together. Re below - you get the general idea even if it is not accurate to the mm.



For reference, I mount my 189/192s at +1.5, my 182/"185"s at +1 (1.5 didn't feel right for me on the 182s, nor did the line - 1 was money). Both skis ski fine on the line, but where moving +1 on the shorter length made the ski feel stronger and more capable when driving the skis, whereas the 192 felt more balance / less tip heavy for my tiny bsl at 293.

Sander is +1 not plus 4.

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[kid-kapow]

... I think Sander Hadley mentioned in some interview (as it blister?) that he has been riding his as far forward as +4. ...

Sander is +1 not plus 4.

If you want to listen to Sander state that he has ridden 192 M-Frees as far forward as +4 himself, then the source is blister interview at 0825-35. I thought it was pretty clear from that statement that he did not end up there, but perhaps not.

The point was not where he ended up, but that he - as a sensible guy who understands ski geometries (not a NS minion shouting "center mount center mount!") and can outski most people - thought that there was room to move ahead quite a bit. Aka, more than +1 does not put you in front of the cambered section.

[Danno]

Well not to spoil the fun for everyone, but I found a pair brand new pair of M-Free 99 185s for half price. So I bought them. And I had already snagged a pair of M-Free 108 192s for next to half price a couple of weeks ago.

Where you getting these half price? I am still in the process of ski-deciding (I have a recent thread similar to yours, but more open ended) and the M-Free 108 in a 182 is high on my list. Even more so if it was half off.

[grinch]

^^ this. My mf99 has been a ton of fun. Bases arent as durable or fast as praxis,on3p and moment though. Not terrible though

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