Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

**Bobcat Sig** · 09-24-2022, 01:22 PM

I think I’m late to the game here, but have we officialy whined about the Ikon now only having seven days on the pass? Or is this a good thing for the locals and Alterra selling yet more passes to go with their passes? I need to know where to direct my internet outrage…

**altasnob** · 09-24-2022, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

Or is this a good thing for the locals

The whole reason Alterra took Crystal off of unlimited is because the locals bitch and whined enough. The long term pass holders wanted a more expensive season pass, so Alterra gave them what they were asking for. The unanswered question is, in a region where the median household income has hit a record high of $110,000 (in Seattle, which is third to only San Jose and San Francisco in the US) does it even matter that the pass is now more expensive.

I switched to mid-week only, which was a decent deal if you are able to avoid weekends.

**Bobcat Sig** · 09-24-2022, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by altasnob

The whole reason Alterra took Crystal off of unlimited is because the locals bitch and whined enough. The long term pass holders wanted a more expensive season pass, so Alterra gave them what they were asking for. The unanswered question is, in a region where the median household income has hit a record high of $110,000 (in Seattle, which is third to only San Jose and San Francisco in the US) does it even matter that the pass is now more expensive.

I switched to mid-week only, which was a decent deal if you are able to avoid weekends.

That’s what I figured. While it’s been a minute since I’ve made it up to Crystal, based on the chatter here last year, it sounded like a junk show due to overcrowding and difficulties keeping the road open and traffic flowing.

I wish I could swing mid-weeks, but I’m still a part of the working and unwashed masses with only weekends open. But it sounds like if I want to ski up there this year, midweek is the move.

**Ørion** · 09-25-2022, 10:00 AM

Just my hot-take, but I don't think we're going to see a substantial difference in experience when it comes to Crystal this year vs the last. Outside of wind events, which funnels an entire mountain's worth of people onto Forest Queen, lift lines were pretty reasonable through-out the season and the only time capacity ever really was an issue was during deep days.

I expect that during this upcoming season everyone who has a limited IKON pass will save their passes for powder days and we'll be in effectively the same position: 15-30+ min lift lines during "good" weekend days, ski-on and <3 min lines any other day. Maybe some marginal differences on surprise mid-week powder days as people will be less likely to gamble one of their passes on them.

**PNW_Skier206** · 10-02-2022, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ørion

Just my hot-take, but I don't think we're going to see a substantial difference in experience when it comes to Crystal this year vs the last.

I expect that during this upcoming season everyone who has a limited IKON pass will save their passes for powder days and we'll be in effectively the same position: 15-30+ min lift lines during "good" weekend days, ski-on and <3 min lines any other day. Maybe some marginal differences on surprise mid-week powder days as people will be less likely to gamble one of their passes on them.

Maybe... I know a number of people ditching Crystal for Alpental since 7 days isn't enough and they don't want to pay the high price for the full pass. But I agree, on weekend powder days the lot will fill and lines will be long.

Even if things improve some, gone are the days where the lot would only fill 2-3 days a year. Doesn't matter how much they raise the price. There just aren't enough ski resorts driving distance from Seattle.

**oftpiste** · 10-03-2022, 12:15 PM

and of course, lines at Alpental will be much shorter.

**phatty** · 10-04-2022, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by oftpiste

and of course, lines at Alpental will be much shorter.

[emoji1787] Then we can hear all the Crystal people complain about conditions and/or grooming. In our insanely long lines.

**jacob_dbu** · 10-04-2022, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by PNW_Skier206

Maybe... I know a number of people ditching Crystal for Alpental since 7 days isn't enough and they don't want to pay the high price for the full pass. But I agree, on weekend powder days the lot will fill and lines will be long.

Even if things improve some, gone are the days where the lot would only fill 2-3 days a year. Doesn't matter how much they raise the price. There just aren't enough ski resorts driving distance from Seattle.

You mean 14 days isn't enough? Since you get 7 at Alpy as well...

Hey good for them. I'm getting the Crystal Pass. Alpy is only skiable when the snow "sucks".

**Ørion** · 10-04-2022, 07:54 AM

14 days locally with a long weekend trip or two to Bachelor and/or Schweitzer. Throw in some Muir lap days for people with "sidecountry" setups.

Most of the people I know might chafe under the idea of no unlimited days at a local resort but actually wouldn't hit the limits.

If I was a betting man, pessimisticly I'd wager Alterra took a look at average # of days at Crystal per locally sold IKON pass and realized that it wouldn't change too much while being able to soak the dedicated skiers who do want to put in an unlimited number of days with their pocket meats and PBJ sandwiches.

Moral of the story? I need better friends

**altasnob** · 10-04-2022, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ørion

If I was a betting man, pessimisticly I'd wager Alterra took a look at average # of days at Crystal per locally sold IKON pass and realized that it wouldn't change too much while being able to soak the dedicated skiers who do want to put in an unlimited number of days with their pocket meats and PBJ sandwiches.

Ya, Alterra analyticed the shit out of this. Those MBAs they have working for them have to earn their money somehow.

I went with midweek but it was a tough decision as I like to ski weekends on occasion too. I don't think I will get that many mid-week days but I figure at least more than 8, which I think was the break even point on the pass. On top of this, I am pretty sure if I go back to Ikon Pass next year I will not get the renewal discount (because I don't have an Ikon pass, even though I have a midweek pass to an Ikon owned resort). They got us by the balls.

**eSock** · 10-05-2022, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Ørion

14 days locally with a long weekend trip or two to Bachelor and/or Schweitzer. Throw in some Muir lap days for people with "sidecountry" setups.

Most of the people I know might chafe under the idea of no unlimited days at a local resort but actually wouldn't hit the limits.

If I was a betting man, pessimisticly I'd wager Alterra took a look at average # of days at Crystal per locally sold IKON pass and realized that it wouldn't change too much while being able to soak the dedicated skiers who do want to put in an unlimited number of days with their pocket meats and PBJ sandwiches.

Moral of the story? I need better friends

I'm pretty miffed Ikon was like fuck the PNW, they don't need anywhere they can ride more than 7 times. Ended up getting epic pass to fill the gaps, as much as I hate vail corp, was mostly a move of desperation since I already have trips to whistler and CO planned, plus plan to ski every weekend w/ some weekdays mixed in when the weather calls for it, so having stevens as a back up is nice I guess. Feels like there's no good answer here anymore - baker is a trek, snoqualmie is super hit or miss and stevens/crystal are overpacked and owned by evil overlords.

**Bobcat Sig** · 10-05-2022, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by eSock

Feels like there's no good answer here anymore - baker is a trek, snoqualmie is super hit or miss and stevens/crystal are overpacked and owned by evil overlords.

That could be said for most places out west, save for maybe Colorado, which seems to have a healthy count of independent areas that remain comparatively uncrowded and with functional amounts of snowfall.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-05-2022, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

That could be said for most places out west, save for maybe Colorado, which seems to have a healthy count of independent areas that remain comparatively uncrowded and with functional amounts of snowfall.

Um, Utah? Powder, Snow Basin, Beaver, Brian Head, etc.

But, overall, the ratio of ski areas to population is worse in the Puget Sound than the Front Range or Wasatch Front or even San Francisco by far. It having been such a great secret for so long makes it all the more bitter. The supply demand ratio in the Puget Sound is perfect for the rapacious corporate assholes.

The gloom generally doesn't bother me, although last June it did go on just a wee bit long. But I find the rain soothing. Admittedly, I do make forays to ski in sunnier, much more friendly locales where I actually ski with people.

**Bobcat Sig** · 10-05-2022, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Um, Utah? Powder, Snow Basin, Beaver, Brian Head, etc.

But, overall, the ratio of ski areas to population is worse in the Puget Sound than the Front Range or Wasatch Front or even San Francisco by far. It having been such a great secret for so long makes it all the more bitter. The supply demand ratio in the Puget Sound is perfect for the rapacious corporate assholes.

The gloom generally doesn't bother me, although last June it did go on just a wee bit long. But I find the rain soothing. Admittedly, I do make forays to ski in sunnier, much more friendly locales where I actually ski with people.

That's fair. Though I would think that the lot of the Salt Lake megaplex is approaching that of Seattle. Of all the times I've skied Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons, they all seemed plenty busy with their fair share of crushing crowds.

**Buster Highmen** · 10-05-2022, 06:52 PM

Granted it's different with PowMow, Basin, Park City, Canyons, DV, Brighton, Solitude, Alta, Snowbird, Sundance historically attracting remote vacationers adding to the growing local pressure.

But Crystal, Snoqualmie/Alpental and Stevens have less than 1/4 of the ski resources Wasatch Front areas do while both Epic and Ikon have started to bring in a lot of remote vacationers to the PNW where NYC brokers now scream at board members on our ostensibly worse traverses and trenditos pack the gondy.

Sure seems like more of a shock to the PNW over the last 20 years than to UT.

**Bobcat Sig** · 10-06-2022, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Granted it's different with PowMow, Basin, Park City, Canyons, DV, Brighton, Solitude, Alta, Snowbird, Sundance historically attracting remote vacationers adding to the growing local pressure.

But Crystal, Snoqualmie/Alpental and Stevens have less than 1/4 of the ski resources Wasatch Front areas do while both Epic and Ikon have started to bring in a lot of remote vacationers to the PNW where NYC brokers now scream at board members on our ostensibly worse traverses and trenditos pack the gondy.

Sure seems like more of a shock to the PNW over the last 20 years than to UT.

Also fair. My thought was that with the large metroplex of SLC so close, it would see similar issues as we see in the PNWet. I guess the difference is that the UT areas in the Wasatch all have more acreage than the PNW resorts, and maybe not as many people ski out of SLC as they do in the greater Puget Sound?

**DigSki** · 10-06-2022, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

Also fair. My thought was that with the large metroplex of SLC so close, it would see similar issues as we see in the PNWet. I guess the difference is that the UT areas in the Wasatch all have more acreage than the PNW resorts, and maybe not as many people ski out of SLC as they do in the greater Puget Sound?

Parking limits how many people can ski in BCC / LCC and the lots are relatively small. Different story in Park City where there’s a ton of parking and the lines look like they can get truly epic.

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**jacob_dbu** · 10-19-2022, 07:10 PM

Anyone see this?

**phatty** · 10-19-2022, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by thejongiest

Anyone see this?

Where's the None of the Above option on those prices?

**cstefanic** · 10-19-2022, 08:51 PM

I looked and looked but didn't find the "go fuck yourself" button

**timeo** · 10-19-2022, 09:50 PM

That is crazy even if you are living in your RV for the entire season, Xtal sure is run by a bunch of greedy bastards

**nickwm21** · 10-19-2022, 10:04 PM

What a stupid PR move. They should at least try to pretend to add value to the customer at a reasonable profit… not just straight up ask “hey, how much money can we squeeze out of you?”

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**altasnob** · 10-20-2022, 08:02 AM

The Crystal RV crowd strikes be as both extremely rich, and extremely entitled. With parking at premium, think how many parking spots would be created if Crystal removed all of these RV spots. And now that non pass holding, weekend warrior serfs have to pony up to $30 a day to park, I am sure Crystal is thinking of ways to extract more money from these RV 1%ers and their million dollar land yachts.

I say remove 1/3 of the RV spots and turn them into regular parking spots. Another third should be turned into non-hook up spots, with vehicle length limited to less than 25 ft, and then charge a reasonable nightly rate of, say, $20, like White Pass does (it's $125-$115 peak rate at Crystal right now). And the remaining third can be reserved for these multi-millionaires who are too cheap to pony up for an overpriced shack in Greenwater. They can continue to drive their land yachts but charge them $100k for a season RV parking pass. I am sure they can afford it. Use the proceeds to eliminate parking fees for the rest of us.