If only there was something we could do...

[mcphee]

I'm referring to human violence. Early humans lacked cultural means such as politics to resolve differences and instead opted for routine violence to resolve differences. It often resulted in group annihilation.

Beyond just competition for scarce resources, it's now thought conflict was and is driven by less-than-conscious imitative or memetic desire to compete for status. We all compete for status. With nihilists and the psychotically violent status competition happens through violent imitation.

I’m going to amend my agreement with this to include deadly violence. A lot of people might take pause and reflection in their ideals and actions if they knew they could be punched in the nose because of them. I’m digressing….

[SumJongGuy]

That's not very hard to figure out. Mass shootings such as the one in TX are the ultimate fringe of gun violence. l.

They "were". It's also not hard to figure out that they have increased in frequency and magnitude in correlation with how much easier it's gotten to procure those WMDs and the ammo for them.. More guns=more death and destruction..

[Bobby Stainless]

They "were". It's also not hard to figure out that they have increased in frequency and magnitude in correlation with how much easier it's gotten to procure those WMDs and the ammo for them.. More guns=more death and destruction..

It's still the most rare by a large margin, despite being the most shocking. Even though AR15s seem to be the weapon of choice, rifles are the least used guns in gun violence. There have been 221 mass shooting deaths this year in comparison to the 17,680 total gun deaths.

[Bobby Stainless]

I’m going to amend my agreement with this to include deadly violence. A lot of people might take pause and reflection in their ideals and actions if they knew they could be punched in the nose because of them. I’m digressing….

Jesus fucking Christ. How many people have you punched in the nose? Seriously. It's a momentous occasion, so I would like a number.

What a stupid thing to say.

[mcphee]

Melt every last gun down. 17680 people died because some pussies who can’t fight felt disrespected.

ETA: there’s been 17680 guns deaths this year so far? you disingenuous fuck.

[Bobby Stainless]

Melt every last gun down. 17680 people died because some pussies who can’t fight felt disrespected.

ETA: there’s been 17680 guns deaths this year so far? you disingenuous fuck.

Pussies who can't fight... Where do you live? West Side Story?

[Buster Highmen]

I'm not religious at all so this not proselytizing in any shape or form, just a description. What you're describing is a theory of Christianity where instead being motivated by vanity and pride to compete for high status, to worship false gods, resulting in violent conflict people instead chose not to covet their neighbors.

You couldn't be more insulting, confused or wrong.

[Bobby Stainless]

It's really weird things don't ever change.

[MultiVerse]

But isn't that what respect is all about? I don't think of it as an equalizer or homogenizer. I think of it as a requirement to listen and appreciate differences and the only pathway to "recognize".

Fair enough. The argument however is we are creatures of imitation & passion, not reason.

[mcphee]

Jesus fucking Christ. How many people have you punched in the nose? Seriously. It's a momentous occasion, so I would like a number.

What a stupid thing to say.

I don’t know. 10-20 maybe. It’s not a stupid thing to say. We all didn’t grow up in gated communities going to private boarding schools. You obviously conduct yourself differently in real life than on here otherwise you’d probably be dealt with constantly. Or are you like this with everyone you think you’re better than? Probably what all your guns are for. Pussy.

[Bobby Stainless]

I don’t know. 10-20 maybe. It’s not a stupid thing to say. We all didn’t grow up in gated communities going to private boarding schools. You obviously conduct yourself differently in real life than on here otherwise you’d probably be dealt with constantly. Or are you like this with everyone you think you’re better than? Probably what all your guns are for. Pussy.

Be dealt with... Wow.

You're a clown.

10-20... Ok bud.

There's nothing worse than an internet tough guy. Are you wooly?

[Buster Highmen]

Fair enough. The argument however is we are creatures of imitation & passion, not reason.

So, fuck reason, huh?

Anyway, I don't buy that simplistic construct either, reason is very much a part of who we are, as are passion and imitation.

[MultiVerse]

So, fuck reason, huh?.

I'm not arguing against reason, I'm saying humans are not always reasonable. As far as I can tell that's what you're saying too?

The main point, contrary to what a lot people think, is that school shootings aren't random acts of violence committed by a lone wolf but are instead part of a process.

Do you have another theory that explains why serial killers once imitated other serial killers, why today gunmen imitate other gunmen?

[abraham]

Serial killers can't get away with killing sprees that span months or years anymore. The Night Stalker for example, would be caught fairly quickly these days. I think mass shooters are an evolution of serial killers and that desire to cause fear(control). You just can't drag it out like you could in the 70s and 80s, due to forensic technology.

But, but, what about Chicago?
https://news.wttw.com/2021/12/04/new...gulation-cases

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...iller-detector

I dunno it seems unlikely that they can't be caught, or can't get away with spread out killing.

[mcphee]

Be dealt with... Wow.

You're a clown.

10-20... Ok bud.

There's nothing worse than an internet tough guy. Are you wooly?

You asked

[Bobby Stainless]

You asked

You seem kind of new to the interweb. I don't care if you are Floyd Mayweather. Nothing makes someone look more douchey than talking about "fighting irl" on the internet.

I don't care if you were a cage fighter on the wrong side of the tracks growing up. Not a good look.

Just a tip bro.

[Buster Highmen]

I don't know why your getting so bent out of shape. I'm not arguing against reason, I'm saying humans are not always reasonable which as far as I can tell is what you're saying too.

I'm not bent out of shape, but what you wrote explicitly excluded reason as part of the human condition. Own that.

Do you have another theory that explains why serial killers imitate other serial killers, why gunmen imitate other gunmen?

I never inferred that humans are purely rational.

Only that culturally, as evinced here in this thread and across virtually all TGNarr discussions as well as the broader American mediascape, disrespect, personal attacks and out and out insane rants are widely manifest. All that shit just leads to more rage and rage is where I think a lot of the dysfunction of mass shooting roots.

I can't control all the assholes, the disingenuous, the threatening, the arrogant, the trollish snotwads.

All I can do is try to listen, understand and show respect. If in that context, there's no reciprocity, yeah, fuck it, I write them off as unable to engage and try to keep to the track.

I still think that America as a culture is losing it's ability to extend basic respects.

[MultiVerse]

I'm not bent out of shape, but what you wrote explicitly excluded reason as part of the human condition. Own that..

It's theory about why human passions override rationality not an argument rationality doesn't exist.

[up an down]

I still think that America as a culture is losing it's ability to extend basic respects.

You may be correct about that.. But I think its more the fact that the people who are treated with disrespect are more vocal now compared to the past.. And often more successful in getting treated with respect.. But also much more pushback from the disrepecters because of the partial successes.. A lot more noise now from all viewpoints compared to decades past.

[Buster Highmen]

You may be correct about that.. But I think its more the fact that the people who are treated with disrespect are more vocal now compared to the past.. And often more successful in getting treated with respect.. But also much more pushback from the disrepecters because of the partial successes.. A lot more noise now from all viewpoints compared to decades past.

I think that Trumps whole schtick roots in articulating the anger from disrespect, from his father through all the snooty NYC clubs he couldn't join and dismissals from intelligencia and liberals. He certainly made disrespect more palatable across American culture and made expressing that rage more acceptable.

So, I'd agree, but I can't look to Trump, wifebeaters, snobs or trolls to break the cycle, I can only try it from here. If you have the balls (or tits), do it.

[Buster Highmen]

It's theory about why human passions override rationality not an argument rationality doesn't exist.

That's not what you wrote, but OK.

I wouldn't ever disagree that passion and its fruits of disrespect don't override reason in lots of situations. Obviously passion overrules reason in sociopathy.

Rage is the passion that obviously fires a bunch of the poorly grounded in these sociopathic ends and I think a lot of it is related to a lack of respect on the part of people that should know better.

[Jax]

I still think that America as a culture is losing it's ability to extend basic respects.

Agree. When driving home at night opposing traffic doesn't even bother to turn off their brights anymore, even if I quickly flash mine as a reminder. Common courtesy no longer exists. They. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

[Buster Highmen]

So, yeah, I don't understand gun passion. I got over liking guns. I have yet to read a single reason why guns shouldn't be more tightly regulated in America. The reasonable gun people I know are more or less for very stringent regulations on assault guns.

[Buster Highmen]

Agree. When driving home at night opposing traffic doesn't even bother to turn off their brights anymore, even if I quickly flash mine as a reminder. Common courtesy no longer exists. They. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

Right. The hard part is to not be like them, really fucking hard.

[Bunion 2020]

Neil Meyer, a retired lawyer, is a fifth-generation Texan. He now lives in Bethesda.

I was born in Uvalde, Tex., lived there recently and love its complex history and people. Like most, I’ve been struggling under the weight of grief to understand the violence that left 19 children, two teachers and a young killer dead last week. But I’m not surprised.
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First, you would be challenged to find a more heavily armed place in the United States than Uvalde. It’s a town where the love of guns overwhelms any notion of common-sense regulations, and the minority White ruling class places its right-wing Republican ideology above the safety of its most vulnerable citizens — its impoverished and its children, most of whom are Hispanic.

Second, at news of the shooting, I was struck to hear the words “Robb Elementary” because I knew of its centrality to the struggle in Uvalde over the past half-century to desegregate its schools. Robb sits in the city’s southwest quadrant. So I knew the victims of the shooting would largely be Hispanic. They have been locked into that school for decades.

In Uvalde, simply put, everything north of Highway 90 is primarily White Republican, and everything south is mostly Hispanic Democrat. The city has about 15,000 residents; more than 80 percent identify as Hispanic or Latino.

Most of Uvalde’s political leadership and the heads of the largest employers are White. At the center of town on the courthouse grounds, you’ll find a monument to Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president — installed when the Ku Klux Klan dominated Uvalde politics. (Some of us tried to get the monument removed after the murder of George Floyd, but that’s a story for another day.)

When I heard reports about the shooter, a young Latino, I winced at the reflexive disclaimer that he wasn’t an “illegal immigrant.” It wasn’t surprising to learn that he was bullied for a speech impediment, may have come from a broken family struggling with drug use and had experienced problems in school. Drug use plagues the city, and the courts struggle under the weight of young people’s encounters with the legal system. About 1 in 3 Uvalde children live in poverty.

The killer allegedly bought his guns at the Oasis Outback, a popular lunch spot for wealthier Uvaldeans, known for its large buffet, hunting supplies and gun shop. On most days you’ll also see groups of Border Patrol agents and local law enforcement there. It’s a monthly meeting place for groups such as the Uvalde County Republican Women, whose Facebook page includes posts decrying “the border invasion.”

The Oasis reflects the establishment’s deep cultural reverence for guns, hunting and the Wild West mythology. I wasn’t surprised that an 18-year-old could walk in and easily buy tactical weapons without anyone being concerned.

I wasn’t surprised to see the Republican panel of politicians at a news conference the day after the shooting, almost all White and in top positions of power in the community and the state, taking the lead. In Uvalde, the custodians of order — the chief of police, the sheriff, the head of the school district police — are Hispanic, but here they were largely silent. Unsurprisingly, they now bear the primary blame for the disastrous response at the school.

Finally, I wasn’t surprised to see victims being flown to San Antonio for treatment. The Uvalde hospital was converted in recent years to a critical access facility, limiting its number of beds. The hospital benefited financially, but many residents seeking health care must now travel to distant locations. The negative impact on a community with high rates of poverty — families who can’t afford this burden — is obvious.

President Biden and the first lady visited Uvalde on Sunday to offer comfort to the families of victims at Robb. But Uvalde and other towns like it need more than comfort — we need to know that American leaders will take the overdue steps necessary to keep these communities safe.

Let’s start with banning assault weapons and limiting young people’s access to firearms. The freedom to own weapons that facilitate mass murder is less important than the safety of our children, they’re not needed for hunting, and they don’t need to be sold to 18-year-olds. Most Americans and many Texans agree, despite the rhetoric of Republican leaders.
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Let’s also recognize that Uvalde has a sufficiently large law enforcement presence, between the police department, the sheriff’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Texas Rangers, Customs and Border Protection and the FBI. We won’t succeed in creating “hardened targets” by arming teachers and other civilians.

Finally, the social conditions that gave birth to deadly violence and the killer’s mental condition can be addressed through our support of community organizations, health-care systems and schools — by supplying resources and legal avenues to identify and deal with emerging threats such as the one posed by this young man.

The deaths at Robb Elementary were predictable and avoidable. Uvalde, the state of Texas and the United States of America failed the children and teachers who died there. We owe it to their memory and to current and future generations to avoid yet another, similar tragedy.


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