Fuel Prices.

[Core Shot]

Gas can be ten bucks.

But my old bought and paid for guzzler still makes more economic sense than a shiny new e car.

[neufox47]

15,000 miles @ 15 mpg = 1,000 gals * 5 = $5000/yr

@30 mpg = $2500/yr

15,000 miles @ $.04/mile @ $.13kwh = $450

People buy new cars all the time.

I’m more after the folks driving 25k+.

We have a bunch of people at my company that drive a fuck ton, some 50k +. We currently give a car allowance that is enough to cover a car payment, insurance, maintenance etc. then $.24 per mile. People are throwing a shit fit that $.24 mile doesn’t cover their gas. Our president was asking for ideas and I said let them go buy a different car. At $5 a gallon if $.24 a mile doesn’t cover your cars gas then they are driving a car that gets less than 20 mpg. Even modern 1/2 tons do better than that and we have 0 need for a truck. When I look at our parking lots I see a ton of 3/4 ton pickups, suburbans, etc. Getting our 500 people to drive electric cars would have an outsized impact.

If you drive a 3500 6,000 miles per year who cares, it isn’t that much in fuel costs. But if you drive that same truck 45,000 miles that is a massive financial impact. $13k by the above math, even more when you factor in the cost of oil changes etc. that is enough to pay for a second car over a few years.

[Pinned]

I’m more after the folks driving 25k+. We have a bunch of people at my company that drive a fuck ton, some 50k +. We currently give a car allowance that is enough to cover a car payment, insurance, maintenance etc. then $.24 per mile. People are throwing a shit fit that $.24 mile doesn’t cover their gas. Our president was asking for ideas and I said let them go buy a different car. At $5 a gallon if $.24 a mile doesn’t cover your cars gas then they are driving a car that gets less than 20 mpg. Even modern 1/2 tons do better than that and we have 0 need for a truck. When I look at our parking lots I see a ton of 3/4 ton pickups, suburbans, etc. Getting our 500 people to drive electric cars would have an outsized impact.

Are your employees/coworkers driving 25k+ miles per year for work? I think you'd lose a boatload of money in terms of lost productivity from them needing to stop and charge if those are miles driven during the workday in an electric vehicle. But choosing to drive a really inefficient car is also ridiculous if they're not towing / loaded / doing truck related stuff.

While I do like my truck, if I didn't need it for truck related duties I'd be driving a sportscar or sport sedan again.

[neufox47]

Are your employees/coworkers driving 25k+ miles per year for work? I think you'd lose a boatload of money in terms of lost productivity from them needing to stop and charge if those are miles driven during the workday in an electric vehicle. But choosing to drive a really inefficient car is also ridiculous if they're not towing / loaded / doing truck related stuff.

While I do like my truck, if I didn't need it for truck related duties I'd be driving a sportscar or sport sedan again.

Yes, these are work miles. But it is because they may drive 50-300 miles per day 3 to 6 days a week, stopping for inspections at various places for 1-4 hours. It would be rare they would need to drive more than the 220 mile standard range of the Model 3 and very rare they would exceed the long range of the 3. If out on a long day, they are at minimum stopping for lunch and they are frequently visiting commercial buildings that may have chargers.

My guess is at the extreme end of the spectrum one of our folks would have to charge 10 times a year if they had the long range Model 3. That may be high. It’s not too often you need to drive over 300 miles if you aren’t staying the night. Additionally they are currently stopping for gas very frequently. So while much quicker they currently spend much more time filling up than they would charging over the course of the year.

[AdironRider]

If you are that concerned about it the company should be buying the vehicles and all that jazz, not punting it to the employee and reimbursing.

Don’t forget there are benefits to the company for the current arrangement.

[dunfree]

Are your employees/coworkers driving 25k+ miles per year for work? I think you'd lose a boatload of money in terms of lost productivity from them needing to stop and charge if those are miles driven during the workday in an electric vehicle. But choosing to drive a really inefficient car is also ridiculous if they're not towing / loaded / doing truck related stuff.

While I do like my truck, if I didn't need it for truck related duties I'd be driving a sportscar or sport sedan again.

25k miles is 100 miles a day, each workday. Why the fuck would you lose a boatload of time charging? If it’s 250 miles 100 days a year, why would you lose a boatload?

lol at the dude quoting thebullshit range numbers though, but he believes the fsd bullshit too

[oldnew_guy]

If you are that concerned about it the company should be buying the vehicles and all that jazz, not punting it to the employee and reimbursing.

Don’t forget there are benefits to the company for the current arrangement.

Easy systemic solution is to give the company a tax incentive to structure their reimbursement program to favor high mpg and EV vehicles.


Something similar happened at my last employer. Staff “needed” a mid sized SUV hybrid to do what could probably have been done in a EV sedan or hatchback.

[Pinned]

25k miles is 100 miles a day, each workday. Why the fuck would you lose a boatload of time charging? If it’s 250 miles 100 days a year, why would you lose a boatload?

lol at the dude quoting thebullshit range numbers though, but he believes the fsd bullshit too

It's unlikely that they are driving the exact same route every single day - he noted some of them are driving 300mi a day. Just based on the info presented I think it's a safe bet the EV thing would end up a mess for them. One of these people forgets to show up charged, can't find a charger at a client site, has to drive around looking for one and wait in a line...couple hours wasted. Bet that happens a lot more often than you'd think. Gas is 10 minutes.

Anyone driving 300mi a day regularly would be nuts to be in an EV anyways as that's really gonna wear your battery down quick.

[AdironRider]

Everything is easy in concept. How exactly are you going to incentivize a vehicle reimbursement program for evs? It’s one thing if the company owns them, another when the employee does..

But then you get down to reality of the cost putting a couple hundred vehicles on the balance sheet and suddenly the environment seems less important.

The incentive technically already exists for the employee purchase and the take rate is not there already by the way.

[XXX-er]

If you are that concerned about it the company should be buying the vehicles and all that jazz, not punting it to the employee and reimbursing.

Don’t forget there are benefits to the company for the current arrangement.

buying cars for the employees creates a whole nuther dept/ costs for the company and possible tax implications for the employee if the employees is getting a benifit from driving that car

[AdironRider]

That's the point. It's a huge cost for the company that they aren't taking on due to that but then he's complaining when the employees don't buy his preferred enviro-mobile.

The problem could be fixed it is just more expensive but instead he is just throwing shade at people he doesn't give a shit about. And we wonder why the great resignation is a thing.

[dunfree]

It's unlikely that they are driving the exact same route every single day - he noted some of them are driving 300mi a day. Just based on the info presented I think it's a safe bet the EV thing would end up a mess for them. One of these people forgets to show up charged, can't find a charger at a client site, has to drive around looking for one and wait in a line...couple hours wasted. Bet that happens a lot more often than you'd think. Gas is 10 minutes.

Anyone driving 300mi a day regularly would be nuts to be in an EV anyways as that's really gonna wear your battery down quick.

spending 4-6hrs in a car regularly is irritating no matter what (to me) and the barriers you mention aren’t really real. Battery degradation is <$15 a charge for a Model3.

the reason they don’t want an ev is the same reason most people don’t - irrational consumer preference. It’s been driven by what people want - not need - since ww2

[XXX-er]

the mother corp had been reimbursing car expenses REALLY well, so well in fact that revenue canada got wind and it got shut down, one guy drove so much that he made enough on car expenses to pay for his TDi and buy a new harley electro glide


so they had to get some national accounting firm to concoct a plan that was suposed to reimburse us for 60% of what it cost to buy and run an impala or a corolla so it was a base weekly payment with sliding scale

Once a year I would add it all up and calculate that they were paying about 60% of what it cost to run a car, so those acccountants are good with numbers, I'm sure this ^^ is something you could get from an acounting firm, there might even be a formula on line ?

all the serious road warriors ended up running VW TDi's

[oldnew_guy]

That's the point. It's a huge cost for the company that they aren't taking on due to that but then he's complaining when the employees don't buy his preferred enviro-mobile.

The problem could be fixed it is just more expensive but instead he is just throwing shade at people he doesn't give a shit about. And we wonder why the great resignation is a thing.

Wow, this is really all over the place and full of what I can only assume is some bizarre projection.

I’m just suggesting that if the government wanted to incentivize companies to incentivize their employees who are getting a vehicle stipend to purchase higher mpg vehicles, I’m sure we could figure out a tax structure to do that. We could also incentivize higher mpg company owned fleets. The US tax code is 10’s of thousands of pages long and incentivizes and disincentivizes all types of behavior.

Just an idea, I’m not waging a culture war over here, JFC.

[skaredshtles]

Wow, this is really all over the place and full of what I can only assume is some bizarre projection.

I’m just suggesting that if the government wanted to incentivize companies to incentivize their employees who are getting a vehicle stipend to purchase higher mpg vehicles, I’m sure we could figure out a tax structure to do that. We could also incentivize higher mpg company owned fleets. The US tax code is 10’s of thousands of pages long and incentivizes and disincentivizes all types of behavior.

Just an idea, I’m not waging a culture war over here, JFC.

Easiest way to get people to change: tax the shit out of fuel and keep the price high. We should have done that back in the 70's...

[dunfree]

Wow, this is really all over the place and full of what I can only assume is some bizarre projection.

I’m just suggesting that if the government wanted to incentivize companies to incentivize their employees who are getting a vehicle stipend to purchase higher mpg vehicles, I’m sure we could figure out a tax structure to do that. We could also incentivize higher mpg company owned fleets. The US tax code is 10’s of thousands of pages long and incentivizes and disincentivizes all types of behavior.

Just an idea, I’m not waging a culture war over here, JFC.

people who have to pay for mileage and the vehicle and drive a shit ton (rideshare drivers) have generally gravitated to hybrid sedans, especially Prius/Camry fyi

[BCMtnHound]

Easiest way to get people to change: tax the shit out of fuel and keep the price high. We should have done that back in the 70's...

I’d be happy if they just removed all the subsidization of the o&g sector. Especially the remediation costs of abandoned wells, tailings ponds and the like. Taxes always seem to be a last ditch effort to recover those subsidies by transferring the responsibility into the consumer, and never really addressing the true environmental damage. And of course all tax structures as subject to manipulation by those that can pay for the best accountants and lawyers to avoid paying anyways.
The best way to fix a broken system is to make it even more complicated? Really?

[skaredshtles]

I’d be happy if they just removed all the subsidization of the o&g sector. Especially the remediation costs of abandoned wells, tailings ponds and the like. Taxes always seem to be a last ditch effort to recover those subsidies by transferring the responsibility into the consumer, and never really addressing the true environmental damage. And of course all tax structures as subject to manipulation by those that can pay for the best accountants and lawyers to avoid paying anyways.
The best way to fix a broken system is to make it even more complicated? Really?

I mean... sure - making O&G pay for all those externalities by removing subsidies would be good, but I suspect that would be a non-starter.

Federal gas tax is $0.18/gal. Make it $2/gal. Seems simplest to me.

I doubt I'd ever get elected to public office.

[BCMtnHound]

I hear you. And don’t mistake my gripe with a desire to avoid taxes. I am willing to pay more, for better funding schools, hospitals, public infrastructure, etc. But the tax on gas doesn’t go there IMO. It is the same with the mining for most anything, including batteries. The kleptocrats and oligarchs are just playing us for fools, taking more and more from the middle to lower classes to fund their extravagances. The only sector that receives more than the o&g sector is agriculture (and percentage to GDP wise Hollywood is up there too - go figure; food, energy and entertainment/communications). The money machine goes brrrrr, and then laundered through the social classes that only have their sweat equity to trade. And the useful idiots that work for those sectors take every opportunity to complain about their hard earned taxpayer-subsidized wages going to the big bad gubmint, carrying the hopeless dream that the true parasite class will someday let them into the VIP club. Fuck ‘‘em all. Climate change and environmental degradation will equal out everyone in the end.

/rant

[shroom]

more federal regulation all around plz. it’s clear we are not competing to improve products or services for the masses across topics here

[AdironRider]

Wow, this is really all over the place and full of what I can only assume is some bizarre projection.

I’m just suggesting that if the government wanted to incentivize companies to incentivize their employees who are getting a vehicle stipend to purchase higher mpg vehicles, I’m sure we could figure out a tax structure to do that. We could also incentivize higher mpg company owned fleets. The US tax code is 10’s of thousands of pages long and incentivizes and disincentivizes all types of behavior.

Just an idea, I’m not waging a culture war over here, JFC.

I wasn't talking about your comment.

[Harry]

Gas prices dropped 40 cents per gallon in the last 3 days here in Northern Wisconsin.

Was $4.09
Now $3.69

Thanks Brandon !


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Price still dropping. Fueled up with RUG today for $3.48 gallon. So 61 cent drop from the peak.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[byates1]

Your trans unlock?

[JONG SLAUGHTER]

I hear you. And don’t mistake my gripe with a desire to avoid taxes. I am willing to pay more, for better funding schools, hospitals, public infrastructure, etc. But the tax on gas doesn’t go there IMO.

YOU'RE A MORON. IF YOU WANT YOUR MONEY TO GO TO THOSE THINGS, DONATE IT INSTEAD OF MAKING THE GUBBERMUNT THE MIDDLE MAN, DUMMY....AND FOR THE REST OF YOU MORONS ASKING TO BE TAXED MORE, I BET YOU LOVE WATCHING TRAINS RAN ON YOUR WIFE....CUCKS.

[neufox47]

If you are that concerned about it the company should be buying the vehicles and all that jazz, not punting it to the employee and reimbursing.

Don’t forget there are benefits to the company for the current arrangement.

Did you miss the part where I said employees are given enough to cover a new car payment, insurance, registration and maintenance? The monthly payment to employees is $700-900 a month, depending on level. Plus $.24 per mile.

Which would you chose? A company sedan or the money?