the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[PeaHead96]

I'm new here, not sure if this is the right place -- but I can't post a new thread for some reason.

Here's some foot measurements:

Right foot: 29.4 cm long, 106-107 mm wide, instep is 28 cm
Left foot: 29.2 cm long, 104-105 mm wide, instep is 28 cm

I have skinny heels, skinny ankles, and the worst chicken legs ever.

Went from skiing a 29.5 Tecnica Zero G Scout that gave me horrific shin bang. Put an intuition luxury in those and shin bang was still the same.

Then got a pair of 28.5 Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 XTDs, had the toe box slightly punched, and was punched for width twice. Forward lean set at 15 degrees + velcro spoiler... well shin bang is solved but now my feet are dying after an hour or so. Even after having the shell punched twice for width they are straight awful to tour with. My toes bang the front quite a bit too, but that's not as worrisome as the width issue. If I were to punch the toe box anymore out in the front then the boots wouldn't work in shifts or any other MNC bindings. And that's something I would like to have.

Also closest bootfitter is either a 20 hour drive or 2 hour flight. I'm probably going to buy a stretching tool later this summer and start doing it myself.

I have a pair of 29.5 Hoji Frees that feel great at the instep, but they're pinching my sixth toe a bit. Shell fit on those is 17-20ish mm -- hard to tell. Toes feel great except for the pinching on my pinky toe. Boot is super sloppy at the cuff.

I have a pair of 29.5 Zipfit GFTs coming in, interested to see how those work.

I have 3 pairs of custom footbeds, 1 made by a podiatrist for everyday shoes, and 2 made by ski shops. Not even remotely sure which one is best for me as they are all slightly different.

I want to love the Hoji Frees because they walk better than the XTDs (and I like how low the instep is) btw the XTDs walk like shit. But I just don't think they fit my leg well, maybe the Zipfits will solve this?

Also I don't care a single bit about weight. I use these boots 50/50 resort/BC. I want performance, but skiing isn't fun when your toes and midfoot are miserable the whole time. Also shin bang sucks, and having too much space in the cuff seems to cause that for me -- and boots that are any less than 15 degrees of forward lean also seem to give me shin bang. Which is also thought provoking because I'm quite convinced that I have low ankle dorsiflexion.

What do you guys think?

I'm 186 cm tall and weigh 84 kilos if that's of any use.

[Ørion]

I'm new here, not sure if this is the right place -- but I can't post a new thread for some reason.

Here's some foot measurements:

Right foot: 29.4 cm long, 106-107 mm wide, instep is 28 cm
Left foot: 29.2 cm long, 104-105 mm wide, instep is 28 cm

I have skinny heels, skinny ankles, and the worst chicken legs ever.

Went from skiing a 29.5 Tecnica Zero G Scout that gave me horrific shin bang. Put an intuition luxury in those and shin bang was still the same.

Then got a pair of 28.5 Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 XTDs, had the toe box slightly punched, and was punched for width twice. Forward lean set at 15 degrees + velcro spoiler... well shin bang is solved but now my feet are dying after an hour or so. Even after having the shell punched twice for width they are straight awful to tour with. My toes bang the front quite a bit too, but that's not as worrisome as the width issue. If I were to punch the toe box anymore out in the front then the boots wouldn't work in shifts or any other MNC bindings. And that's something I would like to have.

Also closest bootfitter is either a 20 hour drive or 2 hour flight. I'm probably going to buy a stretching tool later this summer and start doing it myself.

I have a pair of 29.5 Hoji Frees that feel great at the instep, but they're pinching my sixth toe a bit. Shell fit on those is 17-20ish mm -- hard to tell. Toes feel great except for the pinching on my pinky toe. Boot is super sloppy at the cuff.

I have a pair of 29.5 Zipfit GFTs coming in, interested to see how those work.

I have 3 pairs of custom footbeds, 1 made by a podiatrist for everyday shoes, and 2 made by ski shops. Not even remotely sure which one is best for me as they are all slightly different.

I want to love the Hoji Frees because they walk better than the XTDs (and I like how low the instep is) btw the XTDs walk like shit. But I just don't think they fit my leg well, maybe the Zipfits will solve this?

Also I don't care a single bit about weight. I use these boots 50/50 resort/BC. I want performance, but skiing isn't fun when your toes and midfoot are miserable the whole time. Also shin bang sucks, and having too much space in the cuff seems to cause that for me -- and boots that are any less than 15 degrees of forward lean also seem to give me shin bang. Which is also thought provoking because I'm quite convinced that I have low ankle dorsiflexion.

What do you guys think?

I'm 186 cm tall and weigh 84 kilos if that's of any use.

I'm a bit surprised you downsized like that in a touring boot but if you keep the third buckle locked, you'll lose some ROM (which is unfortunate in an XTD) bit it'll help keep your toes back.

I'm a similar wide-footed narrow-ankled individual (275-280mm length, 106ish width in a 27.5 Ultra XTD with a 15mm heel fit) and the good news is I made them work. The trick, for me, was they needed to give me more vertical room in my sixth toe area. Punching that wide made the shell too shallow there and it was compressing my foot from above. Once they gave me more vertical room the pain went away. See if your foot gets red from the sides or from the top in that area.

You could possible test this by taking out the footbeds and just wearing them around the house for a bit, check if that gives you some relief by adding some (temporary) vertical space.

Caveat, I'm not a bootfitter (GregL is our resident Hawx Ultra expert) and this is my subjective experience.

[mntlion]

I'm new here, not sure if this is the right place -- but I can't post a new thread for some reason.

Here's some foot measurements:

Right foot: 29.4 cm long, 106-107 mm wide, instep is 28 cm
Left foot: 29.2 cm long, 104-105 mm wide, instep is 28 cm

I have skinny heels, skinny ankles, and the worst chicken legs ever.

Went from skiing a 29.5 Tecnica Zero G Scout that gave me horrific shin bang. Put an intuition luxury in those and shin bang was still the same.

Then got a pair of 28.5 Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 XTDs, had the toe box slightly punched, and was punched for width twice. Forward lean set at 15 degrees + velcro spoiler... well shin bang is solved but now my feet are dying after an hour or so. Even after having the shell punched twice for width they are straight awful to tour with. My toes bang the front quite a bit too, but that's not as worrisome as the width issue. If I were to punch the toe box anymore out in the front then the boots wouldn't work in shifts or any other MNC bindings. And that's something I would like to have.

Also closest bootfitter is either a 20 hour drive or 2 hour flight. I'm probably going to buy a stretching tool later this summer and start doing it myself.

I have a pair of 29.5 Hoji Frees that feel great at the instep, but they're pinching my sixth toe a bit. Shell fit on those is 17-20ish mm -- hard to tell. Toes feel great except for the pinching on my pinky toe. Boot is super sloppy at the cuff.

I have a pair of 29.5 Zipfit GFTs coming in, interested to see how those work.

I have 3 pairs of custom footbeds, 1 made by a podiatrist for everyday shoes, and 2 made by ski shops. Not even remotely sure which one is best for me as they are all slightly different.

I want to love the Hoji Frees because they walk better than the XTDs (and I like how low the instep is) btw the XTDs walk like shit. But I just don't think they fit my leg well, maybe the Zipfits will solve this?

Also I don't care a single bit about weight. I use these boots 50/50 resort/BC. I want performance, but skiing isn't fun when your toes and midfoot are miserable the whole time. Also shin bang sucks, and having too much space in the cuff seems to cause that for me -- and boots that are any less than 15 degrees of forward lean also seem to give me shin bang. Which is also thought provoking because I'm quite convinced that I have low ankle dorsiflexion.

What do you guys think?

I'm 186 cm tall and weigh 84 kilos if that's of any use.

start with what ever boot hold your heel down/back the best.

I think the issue is that your skinny heel is not being held back all the way, and still might be moving a bit, so then as it moves the toes touch the front.

1) add some instep padding to tighten the heel down (push it back into the heel pocket of the boot)
2) see what footbed has the most support (and still feels good) to get the foot as short as possible
3) feel what else might be preventing the foot from being back alll the way in the boot.

[PeaHead96]

I'm a bit surprised you downsized like that in a touring boot but if you keep the third buckle locked, you'll lose some ROM (which is unfortunate in an XTD) bit it'll help keep your toes back.

I'm a similar wide-footed narrow-ankled individual (275-280mm length, 106ish width in a 27.5 Ultra XTD with a 15mm heel fit) and the good news is I made them work. The trick, for me, was they needed to give me more vertical room in my sixth toe area. Punching that wide made the shell too shallow there and it was compressing my foot from above. Once they gave me more vertical room the pain went away. See if your foot gets red from the sides or from the top in that area.

You could possible test this by taking out the footbeds and just wearing them around the house for a bit, check if that gives you some relief by adding some (temporary) vertical space.

Caveat, I'm not a bootfitter (GregL is our resident Hawx Ultra expert) and this is my subjective experience.

Yeah I was so tired of shin bang that I was willing to downsize the boot to get rid of it. Well it did, but now my toes hate me.

My foot gets red from the outside and I also get a burning sensation on the pad of my foot -- so much that it hurts to walk around barefoot after skiing for 3-4 hours.

[PeaHead96]

start with what ever boot hold your heel down/back the best.

I think the issue is that your skinny heel is not being held back all the way, and still might be moving a bit, so then as it moves the toes touch the front.

1) add some instep padding to tighten the heel down (push it back into the heel pocket of the boot)
2) see what footbed has the most support (and still feels good) to get the foot as short as possible
3) feel what else might be preventing the foot from being back alll the way in the boot.

Those Hoji Frees that I have are brand new, so I can return them. I'm willing to shell out money for a brand new boot. Still have 1.5/2 months of ski touring left here.

They both have decent heel hold, but the XTDs absolutely rape my feet. I'm thinking it was stupid to size down for a touring boot but my instep is so low that I feel like I have to.

Wonder if the cause of my original boot woes (the shin bang in the Zero G) was actually too big of a boot, or too little forward lean? I really like the feeling of more forward lean (15 degrees in XTD), but maybe I'm not anatomically suited for that... and by being able to choose a boot with 11/12/13 degrees of lean -- leaves a lot more options open.

All I know is that if those Zipfits don't help out my feet, there's no way I'm going to wear the XTDs.

[mntlion]

Those Hoji Frees that I have are brand new, so I can return them. I'm willing to shell out money for a brand new boot. Still have 1.5/2 months of ski touring left here.

They both have decent heel hold, but the XTDs absolutely rape my feet. I'm thinking it was stupid to size down for a touring boot but my instep is so low that I feel like I have to.

Wonder if the cause of my original boot woes (the shin bang in the Zero G) was actually too big of a boot, or too little forward lean? I really like the feeling of more forward lean (15 degrees in XTD), but maybe I'm not anatomically suited for that... and by being able to choose a boot with 11/12/13 degrees of lean -- leaves a lot more options open.

All I know is that if those Zipfits don't help out my feet, there's no way I'm going to wear the XTDs.

sounds like you have a plan.


or go see a good boot fitter when you can

[PeaHead96]

sounds like you have a plan.


or go see a good boot fitter when you can

Yeah I wish I was closer to a bootfitter. You have any way that I can test my ankle dorsiflexion at home?

[detrusor]

That pain in the mid foot that burns in the middle is a developing neuroma, likely from the front of your foot being crushed.


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[Rossymcg]

Yeah I wish I was closer to a bootfitter. You have any way that I can test my ankle dorsiflexion at home?

I'm constantly pushing my knee over my toes to maintain/increase ROM. Toes 4"from the wall and able to freely get knee to wall without arch or knee collapsing in was a benchmark

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[skinipenem]

I'm constantly pushing my knee over my toes to maintain/increase ROM. Toes 4"from the wall and able to freely get knee to wall without arch or knee collapsing in was a benchmark

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Try decreasing ramp angle in your boot. Alternatively, could shim the toepiece of your binding higher.

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[PeaHead96]

Try decreasing ramp angle in your boot. Alternatively, could shim the toepiece of your binding higher.

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I would think that increasing the ramp angle of the boot would be better if I had limited ankle dorsiflexion. Or raising the heelpiece of the binding higher.

[Cocximus]

Any suggestions for attaching foam to the liner? More durable durable than than duct tape and double sided tape, but removable if needed.

[mntlion]

Any suggestions for attaching foam to the liner? More durable durable than than duct tape and double sided tape, but removable if needed.

gorrila tape to test that the placement/thickness is correct. Then contact cement

[Cocximus]

Did you ever try the low odour(latex based) contact cement? I have barge contact cement but that's too permanent.

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[Cocximus]

I have some old zipfits I cut up. The tongue omfit pouch doesn't weight much. 71g. Such a pouch + intuitions would be the ultimate liner. I am going to try to attach it to my old packed out Vulcan liner. Both heel pouches are 98g.

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[Rossymcg]

Try decreasing ramp angle in your boot. Alternatively, could shim the toepiece of your binding higher.

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that wouldn't increase my ROM though. I've increased it massively by actively stretching at every possible chance. I've had a lot of ankle injuries and had tight calves.

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[Jongle]

Recently switched from Atomic Hawx Primes to Hawx Ultras (same shell size). Ultras + Zipfits offer the best lower leg and heel hold I’ve ever had, and are wide enough after heat moulding the toe box.

However, I’m getting some pressure on top of my instep and numb toes after a couple of hours. I’m thinking I’ll just pull out the boot board and grind it down by a mm or two under the instep and forefoot. Is this the right thing to do? Any other suggestions?

[mntlion]

Recently switched from Atomic Hawx Primes to Hawx Ultras (same shell size). Ultras + Zipfits offer the best lower leg and heel hold I’ve ever had, and are wide enough after heat moulding the toe box.

However, I’m getting some pressure on top of my instep and numb toes after a couple of hours. I’m thinking I’ll just pull out the boot board and grind it down by a mm or two under the instep and forefoot. Is this the right thing to do? Any other suggestions?

thinner socks?
are liners new (will pack out a bit over 5-10 days)
thinner footbed?

yes grind boot board if needed

[Rossymcg]

has anyone ever scolloped out a section in the liner to make extra room for a bump. I compressed the area of the tongue over night with a clamp but still it gives me gyp. was thinking of hollowing out an area completely.

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[mntlion]

yup. grind away at the hard plastic on the tongue a bit. Also remove some of the elastication that is over the tongue too.

[sweatypowderpig]

anyone able to speak to the fit of the HEAD formula RS last?

specifically in comparison to a lange rx non-LV, particularly the ankle and heel?

[Cocximus]

After seeing a bootfitter and some DIY I found the best way to improve my fit is by adding foam in the red area. With 2x 5mm pads of dense foam my heel is locked in and also the flex of the boot is greatly improved. The stiff foam in that area does not work that well touring. I have good dorsiflexion range so I rarely use risers. This ends up packing the foam fairly quick. Any ideas what else I can use to take up space in the area that flexes better than foam?

[waxman]

After seeing a bootfitter and some DIY I found the best way to improve my fit is by adding foam in the red area. With 2x 5mm pads of dense foam my heel is locked in and also the flex of the boot is greatly improved. The stiff foam in that area does not work that well touring. I have good dorsiflexion range so I rarely use risers. This ends up packing the foam fairly quick. Any ideas what else I can use to take up space in the area that flexes better than foam?

some form of gel or silicone type pad instead?

[mntlion]

After seeing a bootfitter and some DIY I found the best way to improve my fit is by adding foam in the red area. With 2x 5mm pads of dense foam my heel is locked in and also the flex of the boot is greatly improved. The stiff foam in that area does not work that well touring. I have good dorsiflexion range so I rarely use risers. This ends up packing the foam fairly quick. Any ideas what else I can use to take up space in the area that flexes better than foam?

so you have added 10mm of foam and feels good but maybe a bit more? a size smaller boot and/or a lower volume boot?

and a more supportive/thicker footbed?

[Cocximus]

The mercury boots were great for a few years, then they got slack. I went to see a highly regarded boot fitter in van. He agreed I have no place in a smaller length boot. He added a bunch of foam around my heels. That pushed my foot forward and I ended up with a few black toes. I ripped everything off and added padding on the instep. That worked a for a while. Then that foam seemed to pack so I added the other 5mm. Foam doesn't work with how much I flex my boots touring. I am looking for something that is flexy but dense, like waxman suggested "gel or silicone type pad". Any ideas where I can source such pads?

Raising the foot with a thicker footbed makes my bunions cranky. Raising just the heel does not work for me. I used to use red superfeet but I switched to sole.

Not having pressure where the arrow points really messes with my skiing. The boot is(or it seems?) considerably flexier without the instep padding.