New Season, New Tires, New Thread

[J. Barron DeJong]

Maxxis is meh

Cue the music for the Michelin guys to chime in.

Funny, I was actually wondering if anyone has time on the Force AM2, and how it compares to a Dissector or Aggressor in terms of rolling, grip, and casing.

[adrenalated]

Maxxis is meh

Cue the music for the Michelin guys to chime in.

I'm listening. Tell me what tires to buy. You're familiar with my riding style and lack of skill.

[simple]

I'm listening. Tell me what tires to buy. You're familiar with my riding style and lack of skill.

I like file tread rear and grippy fronts to go fast.

WTB makes tires like that which are reasonably priced but are heavy as fuck or thin as paper. schwalbe makes tires like that which are expensive, not durable but ride amazing. specialized and Bontrager makes tires like that but I think you have to buy from their dealers.

Maxxis are good tires that are available everywhere and come in lots of compounds, widths, and treads. They are still expensive.

I've tried the Maxxis and just not that impressed with them. Whatever comes in double down is the minimum I'll ride. Same with Schwalbe and Super Gravity. Inserts are nice but too heavy for XC so a 1000 gram tire is where it is at. Haven't tried low weight insert and thinner tire because those tires will still puncture too often. Sure these YouTube jocks run Exo+ and jib off rocks but they have a garbage bag full of new tires to swap out when they aren't editing footy from inside their vans.

[SchralphMacchio]

Been missing from this thread for a while (kids, not much computer time, whatever).
Still noticing that people from different parts of the continent with totally different soil conditions aren't calibrating/qualifying/disclaiming their opinions based on soil conditions and trail types.

Pet peeve of mine. You wouldn't expect a truck mud tire or a soft ass heavily siped snow tire to be awesome on the interstate, and vice versa!
There are some conditions where I like a tire like the Butcher way better than the Dissector, and vice versa!

[climberevan]

Been missing from this thread for a while (kids, not much computer time, whatever).
Still noticing that people from different parts of the continent with totally different soil conditions aren't calibrating/qualifying/disclaiming their opinions based on soil conditions and trail types.

Pet peeve of mine. You wouldn't expect a truck mud tire or a soft ass heavily siped snow tire to be awesome on the interstate, and vice versa!
There are some conditions where I like a tire like the Butcher way better than the Dissector, and vice versa!

You want scientific rigor on TRG? Next you'll demand that people who claim to feel differences between rims use the same bike on the same day and the same tires (and pressures). We don't have time for that.

Carry on with the anecdotes, everyone.

[SchralphMacchio]

We don't need rigor, just say what types of soils and trails you like a tire on!
I haven't ridden all over the continent but in just my home region I can tell you that Western Oregon soil conditions are totally different from Western Cascade foothills and dry sandy parts east of the Cascades, and tires behave differently on all three. Same goes for mesa and lowland riding around St G, vs the sandy chunky conditions of Pisgah, etc.

[Boissal]

I've been quite pleased with the Specialized Butcher/Eliminator combo for the Wasatch. Spent most of last season on that and I can't say it's performing less well than the DHF/Dissector combo I ran before. The GridTrail casing is somewhere between Exo+ and DD and the T7/T9 rubber is holding up better than Maxterra did. Grip isn't exactly a concern in our moon dust so no comment on that front. The combo also worked quite well for fall riding in the Alps. It didn't do great on soaking wet off camber roots but I'm not sure what does. Traction in good dirt was spectacular but that might be because I literally never ride good dirt and don't have a baseline to judge. Traction on sandstone was unreal but again, sandstone. Puncture resistance is quite impressive considering the pointy shit I throw myself into. Best of all, $60 per tire.

[XtrPickels]

I've been quite pleased with the Specialized Butcher/Eliminator combo for the Wasatch. Spent most of last season on that and I can't say it's performing less well than the DHF/Dissector combo I ran before. The GridTrail casing is somewhere between Exo+ and DD and the T7/T9 rubber is holding up better than Maxterra did. Grip isn't exactly a concern in our moon dust so no comment on that front. The combo also worked quite well for fall riding in the Alps. It didn't do great on soaking wet off camber roots but I'm not sure what does. Traction in good dirt was spectacular but that might be because I literally never ride good dirt and don't have a baseline to judge. Traction on sandstone was unreal but again, sandstone. Puncture resistance is quite impressive considering the pointy shit I throw myself into. Best of all, $60 per tire.

I was less than pleased with the Butcher on deeper, looser, soil where the compound has less influence than knob orientation.
I *think* it's because the center and side knobs are lined up such that they create a clear horizontal channel vs. a DHF that offsets the rows.

YMMV.

I like the Eliminator though.

[SchralphMacchio]

I was less than pleased with the Butcher on deeper, looser, soil where the compound has less influence than knob orientation.
I *think* it's because the center and side knobs are lined up such that they create a clear horizontal channel vs. a DHF that offsets the rows.

YMMV.

I like the Eliminator though.

That's an interesting thought. I looked more closely and the side knobs close off about half of the horizontal gap in the center knobs, so there is an opening, and it's set up somewhat diagonally with respect to the space between the center knobs. This actually could be the main reason that the Butcher clears wet clay where the DHF packs it up to a balloon. I'm not sure I've found, like you have, that the Butcher gives up lateral grip to the DHF in deep loose dry soils, but I'd like to run that test some time.

Here in the PNW I basically prefer the DHF for dry midsummer conditions, the Butcher for shoulder seasons (moist but not sloppy), and the Hillbilly for midwinter. However given the price of Maxxis tires the Butcher does stay on my hardtail in the summer.

One surprise for when tires grip in loose dry soils is the Aggressor, I think the tread pattern can hold a matrix of loose soil together to give it impressive braking traction - which would be surprising if you only look at height of tread and not the tread pattern.

[altacoup]

I've been quite pleased with the Specialized Butcher/Eliminator combo for the Wasatch. Spent most of last season on that and I can't say it's performing less well than the DHF/Dissector combo I ran before. The GridTrail casing is somewhere between Exo+ and DD and the T7/T9 rubber is holding up better than Maxterra did. Grip isn't exactly a concern in our moon dust so no comment on that front. The combo also worked quite well for fall riding in the Alps. It didn't do great on soaking wet off camber roots but I'm not sure what does. Traction in good dirt was spectacular but that might be because I literally never ride good dirt and don't have a baseline to judge. Traction on sandstone was unreal but again, sandstone. Puncture resistance is quite impressive considering the pointy shit I throw myself into. Best of all, $60 per tire.

Had always been a Maxxis guy. But switched to butcher/eliminator combo last year because that’s what I could get. I’ve been very satisfied. Eliminator feels fast but still has braking grip. Butcher is grippy enough, and I was coming from an Assegai. They were cheaper and the easiest tires to mount I’ve ever had. I’m a fan.


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[Andeh]

Been missing from this thread for a while (kids, not much computer time, whatever).
Still noticing that people from different parts of the continent with totally different soil conditions aren't calibrating/qualifying/disclaiming their opinions based on soil conditions and trail types.

Pet peeve of mine. You wouldn't expect a truck mud tire or a soft ass heavily siped snow tire to be awesome on the interstate, and vice versa!
There are some conditions where I like a tire like the Butcher way better than the Dissector, and vice versa!

Fair enough. I ride typical Norcal conditions, where it's dust over hardpack about 80% of the year. Not a lot of rocks. I'm heavily biased towards preferring grip over fast rolling. MaxxGrip is amazing for grip on the hardpack. MT DHRs I notice the rear edges chunk off really fast. MG Dissector it doesn't tear anywhere near as bad like that, just wears down. I run a MG Assegai year round (usually EXO+, but DD when I go to places with sharp rocks).

Dissector does get overwhelmed in really deep loose soil (sand, deep dust, or loam). In those, DHR brakes WAY better. But when it's just a thin coating of dust over hardpack, the MG Dissector clings to the ground better.

WRT the HR2... man I made the same mistake several years ago when I was (more of) a bike noob. I got a set of them front & rear on my first custom bike (from Competitive Cyclist) because they sounded like they'd be a good combo of rolling and grip. They were fucking pigs for rolling, and utterly terrifying to lean over.

Edit: I've tried the new Spec tires because my buddy gets them at cost. The Eliminator is great, a good balance between DHR and Dissector. I thought the Butcher was too round, and didn't edge like the Assegai. This was with their 2.6 set. It might be better in 2.3 (really a 2.4). I'm intrigued by their Cannibal that the DH guys are starting to run.

[SchralphMacchio]

The 2.6 Butchers work well, for me, for a variety of soils ranging from firmish to soft and wet on a 35mm rim … I tried one on a 29mm rim and it’s much more vague on cornering, works okay for less maintained Backcountry trails where you aren’t hauling ass, just trying to keep traction on loose bits like a million baby fir cones or chunks of tree bark, segments of crumbling shale, etc - but not a good setup for high speed high precision riding. 2.3 Butcher for 27-30mm.

[joetron]

You want scientific rigor on TRG? Next you'll demand that people who claim to feel differences between rims use the same bike on the same day and the same tires (and pressures). We don't have time for that.

Carry on with the anecdotes, everyone.

Lol. Pepperidge Farm over here


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[dcpnz]

Anyone run WTB tires?
Are Trail Boss or Vigilante worth a closer look or should I just run (or ride) away from them?

[Abies]

I have been running a 2.5 Vigilante front and 2.4 trail boss rear (Light/high grip and Light/fast respectively) for over a year. On my second set. Nice tires, good all around trail setup for soft-ish conditions in the PNW IMO. Vig can feel vague on hardpack. Trail boss is like a semi-slick+.

The light casing on these feels tougher than Exo fwiw, too.

edit: just saw on instagram that WTB is updating the Vig a bit. Looks like more support for the side knobs. Maybe that would help with the hardpack vagueness.

[Gerome]

I ended up ordering a Maxxis aggressor 2.5 exo dual compound from REI, used the 20% off coupon, used my $50 dividend and spent $15 for a new tire. I'm definitely not someone that will notice much difference. For example, I typically overinflate my tires because my old tire pump has a broken gauge and I'm old school xc rider that hates pinch flats even though I know I'm running tubeless.

I'm running a WTB tire on my front because that's what came on the bike, but I had to change out the WTB tire on the back because I got a bunch of flats the first season I used the bike and switched out to the DHR2 DD pretty quickly. I wouldn't buy WTB again as I think its not a strong tire. My DHR2 ended up punctured with a stick not too long after buying it. A vulcanizing tire patch on the inside worked for about a year, but the tire continued to disintegrate underneath the patch which is why I have a new tire arriving Monday.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I ended up ordering a Maxxis aggressor 2.5 exo dual compound from REI, used the 20% off coupon, used my $50 dividend and spent $15 for a new tire. I'm definitely not someone that will notice much difference. For example, I typically overinflate my tires because my old tire pump has a broken gauge and I'm old school xc rider that hates pinch flats even though I know I'm running tubeless.

I'm running a WTB tire on my front because that's what came on the bike, but I had to change out the WTB tire on the back because I got a bunch of flats the first season I used the bike and switched out to the DHR2 DD pretty quickly. I wouldn't buy WTB again as I think its not a strong tire. My DHR2 ended up punctured with a stick not too long after buying it. A vulcanizing tire patch on the inside worked for about a year, but the tire continued to disintegrate underneath the patch which is why I have a new tire arriving Monday.

Off topic, but every time I see a Gerome post, in my head I hear Homestar Runner saying ‘well, Jerome’ in response…

[justo8484]

Another proponent of butcher/eliminator combo here. Riding in the mid atlantic mostly in parks in/near a major metro area, so trail conditions vary from 1" deep sand over hardpack, moon dust intermixed with loose rocks over hardpack, nothing but loose rocks, large non-loose rocks, and if we're lucky we get proper tacky dirt for 30 minutes if you time it appropriately after a rain. Loam basically isn't a thing. My normal go-to is a bontrager xr4/xr3 setup, but haven't tried the xr3 since they basically made it an xr4/xr2 minion SS hybrid. The butcher/eliminator combo works well enough in just about any conditions i'll encounter, though i'll concede it does not seem to roll as fast as the xr4/old xr3 combo.

[schuss]

Anyone run WTB tires?
Are Trail Boss or Vigilante worth a closer look or should I just run (or ride) away from them?

I've been running vigilante F/R on my singlespeed for a while on new england terrain and they work well. No traction complaints, though I haven't used them on that challenging a set of terrain.

[toast2266]

Anyone run WTB tires?
Are Trail Boss or Vigilante worth a closer look or should I just run (or ride) away from them?

They're fine. I don't dislike them when they're on my bike, but there is almost no situation where I prefer them over the various other options in that category (specifically dhr/dhf, magic marys, or butchers). But if I had a line on wtb's for cheap, I wouldn't say no.

[smmokan]

I might get flamed for this, but I'm a Continental tire guy. For general CO dry, loose and rocky riding, I love the Kaiser front and Trail King rear with the Black Chili rubber. Grippier and more durable than Maxxis EXO+, IME over the last two years. That said, I'm not super hard on tires so I don't need a DD or DH casing.

When I go to places like Squamish, Revelstoke, or Brevard, I run a Baron/Kaiser combo. Way more grip, but definitely a little slower rolling too.

[D(C)]

I might get flamed for this, but I'm a Continental tire guy. For general CO dry, loose and rocky riding, I love the Kaiser front and Trail King rear with the Black Chili rubber. Grippier and more durable than Maxxis EXO+, IME over the last two years. That said, I'm not super hard on tires so I don't need a DD or DH casing.

When I go to places like Squamish, Revelstoke, or Brevard, I run a Baron/Kaiser combo. Way more grip, but definitely a little slower rolling too.

I ran the Baron/Kaiser combo in North Van for a year and liked it a lot. The grip in the wet was excellent. I had one puncture that I was able to fix with bacon strips. They also wore well. They did start weeping sealant after a few months, though, but I've also had thinner Maxxis tires do that.

[sf]

I ran the Baron/Kaiser combo in North Van for a year and liked it a lot. The grip in the wet was excellent. I had one puncture that I was able to fix with bacon strips. They also wore well. They did start weeping sealant after a few months, though, but I've also had thinner Maxxis tires do that.

Same. Last two set-ups were DHF/HR2, and DHR/DHR.
The Baron/Kaiser has better traction and climbs tech better. For me, that is.

Very average rider, on an enduro bike, riding a lot of rooty loam with short steep pitches up and down

[toast2266]

Has continental fixed their casings?

Last time I ran conti's they were great for traction and they rolled alright, but they used a super high tpi casing (which is probably why they had great traction) and the casing tore after a few rides. Like, it bulged out to the point that it wouldn't roll through the frame, but it still held air. Had that happen to a couple of conti tires, as did some friends.

[smmokan]

Has continental fixed their casings?

Last time I ran conti's they were great for traction and they rolled alright, but they used a super high tpi casing (which is probably why they had great traction) and the casing tore after a few rides. Like, it bulged out to the point that it wouldn't roll through the frame, but it still held air. Had that happen to a couple of conti tires, as did some friends.

I'm pretty sure they fixed that a while back. I've been running some combination of Black Chili TK, Baron and Kaiser for the last two years (maybe 8-10 tires in total) and haven't had any issues at all. In fact, the only flats I've had were on stupid lines where any tire this side of DH casings would have punctured.