Bringing Back The Best: Lotii And Other Assorted Love Songs

[Chuxson]

I just want the old L120 shape.

+1
Carbon, 190 cm, please.

[Marshal Olson]

Thanks for the good vibes and constructive feedback. Really appreciate it. Please keep posting your thoughts!

To add just a little more context, I read a very interesting article about Cascade Designs, which makes aftermarket replacement parts for mountain bike frames. They have unwittingly opened a pandora's box in the cycling industry. I have also been paying close attention to the homage watch world as well. The Heritage Lab ski project is intended to be something I personally stand behind, and something I truly believe in doing. I want to honor the spirit of skis long since dead, but do not want to inadvertently open my own pandora's box. I love skiing and the ski industry too much for that. There are just things that need to be updated on most of these old skis (ie. nobody is lining up for skis with a -14.5 mount point!), and it becomes blurry really quickly, even on one small design choice, if it is a remake or some something new. The last thing I want to do is miss-lead anyone.

Once I can re-secure manufacturing for the Carbon and Freeride skis, my plan is to offer a unique reverse/reverse shape, as well as a unique 113mm directional pintail powder charger w/ long running length and minimal rocker. I have been discussing the directional powder charger at length with Arild, building on his GFB project from last year. This was set to be the next Heritage Lab ski anyhow, with both Carbon and Freeride layups.

I totally get folks being bummed by all of this, for that I do apologize. It is not easy to make the call to shift the gears like this, so please respect that this isn't a decision made lightly. I know many are eager to ski on impossible to find personal favorites, so the one thing I will ALWAYS stand behind is that my designs will ski really well. I am willing to take back any HL ski that doesn't meet your expectation or mesh with your style, even if you bought it second hand (see the satisfaction guarantee on the site).

I love talking skis, am an open book, and will share more as this flushes in. I am really grateful to all of your feedback. Along with posting, please feel free to call/text/dm/email me with questions.

[byates1]

+1
Carbon, 190 cm, please.

Same here. Good luck and keep us posted marshall

[Phall]

Got a link to that Cascade article? Peaked my interest there.

[hoarhey]

cascade components?

[arild]

Not going to say much, but I need to stress that what marshal has up his sleeve is truly, truly awesome. Both skis he mentioned. Or all, for that matter. They'll even have awesome graphics, so you'll know I had nothing to do with just that.

I have no biases to report, other than helping a bit with the 113 waist directional pow chargers. No financial gain, but look forward to seeing MO succeed with HLS.

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[Boissal]

Same here. Good luck and keep us posted marshall

+3 or 4 or whatever. The old L120 shape is as close to perfection as it gets for a Wasatch touring ski. The foot rocket term posted earlier is spot on. These things kept getting better and better as speed increased and despite their size they were manageable even when skiing out a hiking trail like MillB.
When I retired my pair I basically quit skiing anything over 105 underfoot as the Lotus ruined any touring fat ski for me. I liked the Down CD114 which was quite a bit lighter but ultimately missed the shape of the Lotus120 so much that I gave up on having a quiver and learned to love my CD104 even in deep snow... I'd be happy to fix this issue though, having only 1 pair of skis feels so wrong!

[Norseman]

... the one thing I will ALWAYS stand behind is that my designs will ski really well...

Maybe I missed this earlier, but are you testing these new designs before production time? Or are the customers going to be the first to put the skis on snow?

I am not questioning your experience with ski design. But from my own path as a design engineer, I am familiar with the challenge of truly nailing a product on the first cycle when testing isn't involved.

Thanks again for the upfront clarity and I hope you can get the production sorted out for the carbon models.

-s

[ASP]

113mm directional pow charger is SO intriguing....

[Marshal Olson]

Got a link to that Cascade article? Peaked my interest there.

It was a paywall article on Beta. https://www.betamtb.com/news-issues/...ould-go-wrong/

This article is more about warranty than anything, but I see an adversarial relationship forming between brands and Cascade. I am friends with most product managers in the ski industry and have no desire to inadvertently tarnish a long term relationship with anyone.

[Phall]

It was a paywall article on Beta. https://www.betamtb.com/news-issues/...ould-go-wrong/

This article is more about warranty than anything, but I see an adversarial relationship forming between brands and Cascade. I am friends with most product managers in the ski industry and have no desire to inadvertently tarnish a long term relationship with anyone.

Thanks, bummer about the paywall, should probably support that team though. I totally agree, I've always wondered how that will shake out with Cascade. It was one thing before all the cool kids/social media shredders wanted to make their bikes different. I remember running offset hardware on a OG Tallboy LT, and the headaches it caused when I mentioned it to an industry friend at Santa Cruz. I can only imagine the headaches a company Cascade is causing to those brands these days. I can see your point about ski industry too, and know you'll make the right calls.

[/end drift]

[Marshal Olson]

Maybe I missed this earlier, but are you testing these new designs before production time? Or are the customers going to be the first to put the skis on snow?

I am not questioning your experience with ski design. But from my own path as a design engineer, I am familiar with the challenge of truly nailing a product on the first cycle when testing isn't involved.

Thanks again for the upfront clarity and I hope you can get the production sorted out for the carbon models.

-s

Good question, thanks for asking. Just to be explicit:

The raceroom skis are pre-existing molds and flex patterns built to my material spec. The first batch will deliver to me for final inspection and verification before shipping to any customers, but I have not skied this specification to date. I do hope to have that opportunity to ski the beta skis this spring, but cannot confirm it and am not marketing it as such.

The carbon and freeride skis will be first run with new molds, which have not been cut, meaning they are Beta release. Alpha testing (fit and finish samples, graphic samples, core profile, flex and camber, etc) is being done before production of Beta release.

Within my own product management experience, I do see skis differently than more complicated and manufactured/tolerance-based structures (in my world, that is Mountain Biking + Cut & Sew). Happy to expand on that if you wanted, but that could be a big rabbit hole! haha.

[Norseman]

Thanks for the response. And yeah, I can appreciate the difference, with the performance of a ski depending on myriad subjective inputs that are much less definite than with some other sort of machine. More of an art.

[detrusor]

Pink 120’s ordered. Sound like a bad ass DD at snowbird


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[Marshal Olson]

Thanks for the response. And yeah, I can appreciate the difference, with the performance of a ski depending on myriad subjective inputs that are much less definite than with some other sort of machine. More of an art.

You bet man!

Edit to add... my comments should also highlight the difference between soft snow and hard snow skis from my perspective.

Specific to soft snow / freeride skis, where the driving performance is macro geometry, flex pattern, stiffness, materials, and base/edge prep. It is interesting to note how many soft snow skis totally nail it on their first go, and actually get diluted by "updates" through time.

This is very different on hard snow skis, which is why I was so keen to partner with Blossom's expertise and proven shapes/designs. I know the macro in this area, but they are experts in the micro-factors and how they interplay.

Anyhow, not trying to be salesy or anything, just sharing my .02!

[arild]

113mm directional pow charger is SO intriguing....

I think so, too.

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[ARL67]

Hey Marshal,

I've been following Blossom for several years and owned a set of their White-Out ( 77 wide ), now called AM77. They finally have some decent distribution in North America so garnering more attention these days. Some of their designs have been around for decades, proven indeed -> if it ain't broke don't fix it. No need to change for the sake of having some new buzzwords for the marketing guys to go on about.

I'm on your buy for the R87.
Looking at Blossom's line-up, looks like you are using their "Formula" series of skis for molds, which come in a 87, 99, 120 and same dimension as yours. However the Formula series is their lighter weight freeride, touring, back-country, line-up. I'll be most curious how you adapt a heavier charger-build to those molds. Should be fun ! Looking forward to the end result.

[Marshal Olson]

Hey man!

Funny you mention the AM77, but I am essentially putting the Numero Uno/AM series ski construction into the Formula shapes. Versus the Formula, the Heritage Lab skis are stiffer, heavier, and damper than the stock Formula skis via denser and more closely stacked core + heavier fiberglass spec.

Sort of the opposite of making a touring version of an alpine ski by putting a lighter core and laminate into the ski. The good news is that this is predictable because the overall desired stiffness and flex pattern is known, and the quantitative and qualitative aspects of the materials are well defined.

We originally looked at the Squadra Course construction in the Formula skis, but decided it was overkill and would have been unpleasant to ride.

[fool]

Thanks for the update, Marshal. A little bummed on missing out on the C120s but I'm excited about the other skis you're brewing up too. And I just pulled the trigger on R87s which might be more practical anyhow, so excited to crush some low tide skiing next season.

I'm also loving all of the talk of construction, designs, stiffness, etc. Are there any good youtube clips that you'd recommend to learn more about ski building, etc.? I don't want to build skis or anything, but would love to learn a bit more of the physics behind shapes, stiffness, etc. and how it translates more directly to skiing (without getting a PhD). Wonder if you have any recs.

Still stoked for the project!

[ARL67]

That R120 will be one serious ski, way out of my league, but cool that such a ski is being brought to market, Great Stuff !

[XXX-er]

I duno ^^ I was intimidated by the huge advertised turning radius of the lotus 120

but I found a deal on the 2011 red 184 lotus 120 in 184cm,

IME it was really easy to ski cuz I could do that BIG 38 M turn or slarve it down to sliding sideways

with 60CM of early rise its almost impossible to go over the tips

SO I picked up 2011 190 lotus 120 hardly used with skins & Barons

Which is the ski I use most at the hill if there is any fresh at all and I am just 5' 8"/ 165lb

[abraham]

R120 isn't the Lotus shape.

[hoarhey]

and the R120 has metal as well (raceroom beast)

[Marshal Olson]

That R120 will be one serious ski, way out of my league, but cool that such a ski is being brought to market, Great Stuff !

I think it’s a “if you need this ski, you already know it” kind of a deal!

[Marshal Olson]

I'm also loving all of the talk of construction, designs, stiffness, etc. Are there any good youtube clips that you'd recommend to learn more about ski building, etc.? I don't want to build skis or anything, but would love to learn a bit more of the physics behind shapes, stiffness, etc. and how it translates more directly to skiing (without getting a PhD). Wonder if you have any recs.

Still stoked for the project!

interesting! So I don’t know of any, but actually had been toying with my own YouTube tech talk thing. Dumb idea or interesting?