Wildfire 2021

[MakersTeleMark]

Me and my buddy were talking about this earlier. Not like there's much available anywhere in the state really. So terrible.

And I don't see how to pull off new construction either.

Construction = labor = housing. Yeah, figure that one out.

I see a rash of city folk buying renters insurance tomorrow thinking, nah, that could never happen here.

[present tense]

Serious +vibes to those affected. I saw where the emergency management authorities and NWS had tweeted out instructions on how to manually open garage doors when power outage affects electric openers. Hadn’t really thought about this but comments on the posts referenced high density developments and layouts where an attached garage was the only ingress/egress. Apparently CA law requires new construction garage door openers be on battery back up.

[evdog]

Apparently CA law requires new construction garage door openers be on battery back up.

Yes, triggered by recent years fires when a number of elderly residents weren't able to evacuate because they couldn't get their garage doors up after their power went out. Interestingly, a friend across the street recently had a new garage door installed that came with battery backup. We had a scheduled power outage a couple weeks ago that stretched into the next day. The battery backup didn't work, and his wife wasn't able to get the door to open manually.

[Kinnikinnick]

Really curious how the housing market is going to absorb all those displaced folks.

It won’t

Its going to a new level of crazy in the Boulder area.


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[MakersTeleMark]

It won’t

Its going to a new level of crazy in the Boulder area.


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Does the imposed scarcity further jack prices, or does the threat of random semi urban wildfires keep it at bay?

[Kinnikinnick]

Does the imposed scarcity further jack prices, or does the threat of random semi urban wildfires keep it at bay?

Just all those burned houses, homeowners and renters, are going to have to find new residences until things can be rebuilt.

The rental market and for sale market were already bonkers.

Add in hundreds of more families trying to rent or buy and…


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[Danno]

Does the imposed scarcity further jack prices, or does the threat of random semi urban wildfires keep it at bay?

Much more the former than the latter, I'm guessing.

[neufox47]

Just all those burned houses, homeowners and renters, are going to have to find new residences until things can be rebuilt.

The rental market and for sale market were already bonkers.

Add in hundreds of more families trying to rent or buy and…


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A lot of those policies will have generous Additional Living Expense limits allowing the insured to spend several times the normal cost to rent a similar house if the market requires it, driving rent bonkers.

[LongShortLong]

As MS noted, sounds like someone with strong opinions about the FS, but not having any actual knowledge of the FS or how they work. Guy is out and out calling FS firefighters arsonists.

The fact check they cite isn’t a fact check.

My take is similar to the author's - CalFire is a well-funded bureaucracy that puts out fires. USFS is an underfunded bureaucracy that also fights fires sometimes. I took the complaints as mainly about improper management. As a member of the public following several fires, I agree that fires could likely be managed better. Also, USFS seems less effective than CalFire. My thoughts come mainly from watching community meetings, firefighter meetings, and listening to the air crew radio dispatch. And results achieved when comparing USFS and CalFire.

As for management problems, some flaws I've seen are: Fire meetings a safe distance from the fire, followed by a couple hours road driving, {is that followed by branch/division/engine meeting?}, followed by drive forest roads to fire. Then presumably do this in reverse 5 hours later to get back to base by end of 12 hour shift. Day resources assigned with no night resources. Day resources can't fight due to forecasted fire behavior. No night resources when fire lays down. Dozer crews with no support. Air crews with no support. Air supporting dozer with no ground support. Then when a line is properly built, it gets left unmanned, losing the progress (often the adjacent lines/divisions are compromised also). Units not following the plan (a couple Caldor meetings called out that they were going to kill other firefighters with rogue firing).

Not sure where to put this - saw a news crew B-roll where firefighters laid fire behind the Strawberry General Store. Result turned an approaching ground fire into a crown fire. To an untrained observer this put the store at greater risk. Probably also resulted in the loss of cabins downwind to the east.

^ Some of that is the normal fuckups that come with large organizations and unpredictable environments. Much of it seems like it could be done better.

Aside - As for USFS hiring arsonists... Monte Wolfe's historic cabin didn't burn itself down. (Yes that Monte with ski runs named for him). Sorry for the dig. I believe 99% of their employees are trying to be helpful.

Seems like CalFire managed fires (and zones) are usually contained in days or weeks. USFS managed fires tend to burn for months. It could be that USFS gets the more difficult fuels and terrain. That said, I feel they also have fewer firefighting resources (we get what we pay for). Could also be CalFire has better PR (or PIOs).

There's also the elephant of 10,000 years of the old ecosystem management, followed by new management for the last 150 years. The second growth forest is a fire trap and has been for decades, and it's still growing, and it's very dry lately. I'm not an ecologist, but seems all those nice 100-year firs and pines growing among the sequoias are what killed the millennia old sequoias, more than the fire did - sequoia and fire have been there forever, the dense trees are new.

/blog

[old goat]

Yes, triggered by recent years fires when a number of elderly residents weren't able to evacuate because they couldn't get their garage doors up after their power went out. Interestingly, a friend across the street recently had a new garage door installed that came with battery backup. We had a scheduled power outage a couple weeks ago that stretched into the next day. The battery backup didn't work, and his wife wasn't able to get the door to open manually.

I've had to manually open my garage door a lot lately--15+ outages since June--but have had no problem lifting the garage door. I guess it depends on how good the installation is but the door should be balanced by the spring well enough to require minimal strength to open it once the emergency release has been pulled. I'm pretty old myself.

Me and my buddy were talking about this earlier. Not like there's much available anywhere in the state really. So terrible.

I probably said this before but in CA most of the housing that burns is the last affordable housing in the state. While houses in Santa Rosa and Malibu aren't exactly cheap, most of fire losses are in the foothills of the Sierra. I have no idea where those folks go after their house burns but I'm sure many of them never get their lives back, at least not close to what they had before the fire.

[Conundrum]

I’ve personally met about 10 fire refugees who have moved here. I’m assuming those are not the only 10.

[old goat]

I saw on the TV that Boise has the fastest appreciating real estate market in the country

[PB]

.....

I probably said this before but in CA most of the housing that burns is the last affordable housing in the state. While houses in Santa Rosa and Malibu aren't exactly cheap, most of fire losses are in the foothills of the Sierra. I have no idea where those folks go after their house burns but I'm sure many of them never get their lives back, at least not close to what they had before the fire.

My wife has been very active in animal rescue and recovery during the central CA fires, and she definitely agrees. Many of the animals they recover are never reclaimed.

[hutash]

Having been through these (wow, four years ago now) housing was not a huge issue even in the even tighter housing market of southern California, and a much bigger, more people displaced fire. Hopefully people have good insurance, because that is the key. It is not so much of a housing shortage, as it is a lack of affordability. With insurance it becomes their problem. Everybody I knew found housing pretty easily unless they had specific issues (like a friend with three dobermans). We just chose to live in an apartment, which I thought was over priced, but insurance paid for it. People who wanted houses did have to look a bit harder, but all found them. A few people I know bounced around hotels for a few weeks, at least they were nice hotels.

The bigger issue we had was the price of labor and materials to rebuild...still battling SCE on that issue.

[old goat]

Having been through these (wow, four years ago now) housing was not a huge issue even in the even tighter housing market of southern California, and a much bigger, more people displaced fire. Hopefully people have good insurance, because that is the key. It is not so much of a housing shortage, as it is a lack of affordability. With insurance it becomes their problem. Everybody I knew found housing pretty easily unless they had specific issues (like a friend with three dobermans). We just chose to live in an apartment, which I thought was over priced, but insurance paid for it. People who wanted houses did have to look a bit harder, but all found them. A few people I know bounced around hotels for a few weeks, at least they were nice hotels.

The bigger issue we had was the price of labor and materials to rebuild...still battling SCE on that issue.

I'm talking about a much different demographic.

[Garth Bimble]

Yes, triggered by recent years fires when a number of elderly residents weren't able to evacuate because they couldn't get their garage doors up after their power went out. Interestingly, a friend across the street recently had a new garage door installed that came with battery backup. We had a scheduled power outage a couple weeks ago that stretched into the next day. The battery backup didn't work, and his wife wasn't able to get the door to open manually.

If the door is operating properly with power it should be easy to open once it's disconnected from the opener. Newer garage doors are so light you can lift them open with a finger.

That said, if the garage door is your only way in/out and you don't know how to open it when the power is out then you're an idiot and probably shouldn't have a door opener. Probably shouldn't have a garage either.

++++vibes++++ to the folks up in Boulder County.

[muted reborn]

That said, if the garage door is your only way in/out and you don't know how to open it when the power is out then you're an idiot and probably shouldn't have a door opener. Probably shouldn't have a garage either.

The issue is trying to escape in your car, ya ding dong. It's not to go outside and run from the fire.

[hutash]

Yes, CA requires battery back up for new doors. Mine is good for half a dozen or so cycles. Weight of door doesn't really matter if spring tensions are set correctly. This issues is many people just don't know how to disengage their doors, hence the alert.

I thought people couldn't possibly be that clueless, but I have known a few people who didn't know how to open their garage door.

Most homeowners insurance covers housing costs for at least one year post fire, and if you have a mortgage you most likely are required to carry insurance. It is the poor renters who get screwed, mostly because of their own financial issues, but all renters should carry their own rental policy for just such reasons.

[XXX-er]

If the door is operating properly with power it should be easy to open once it's disconnected from the opener. Newer garage doors are so light you can lift them open with a finger.

That said, if the garage door is your only way in/out and you don't know how to open it when the power is out then you're an idiot and probably shouldn't have a door opener. Probably shouldn't have a garage either.

++++vibes++++ to the folks up in Boulder County.

its very simple, just put the car in gear and hit it

the gas and then the door

[old goat]

its very simple, just put the car in gear and hit it

the gas and then the door

You should know by now that there are people here stupid enough to think you're serious.

[mmmm...pow!]

As for management problems, some flaws I've seen are: Fire meetings a safe distance from the fire, followed by a couple hours road driving, {is that followed by branch/division/engine meeting?}, followed by drive forest roads to fire. Then presumably do this in reverse 5 hours later to get back to base by end of 12 hour shift. Day resources assigned with no night resources. Day resources can't fight due to forecasted fire behavior. No night resources when fire lays down. Dozer crews with no support. Air crews with no support. Air supporting dozer with no ground support. Then when a line is properly built, it gets left unmanned, losing the progress (often the adjacent lines/divisions are compromised also). Units not following the plan (a couple Caldor meetings called out that they were going to kill other firefighters with rogue firing).


/blog

It only sorta works as you describe. FS prefers 12s (but will sometimes asign 24 hour crews). That's 12 hours on the line, so if the drive is 2 hours, that's a 16 hour shift. Add in time to get supplies in camp and rehab the rig and get other stuff sorted, could be closer to 18 hours. FS will usually asign night 12s also, but not always as many. CalFire does 24s, day on day off, which with the driving to/from and camp duties is more like a 30 hour shift, and which may or may not include time for a cat nap. Some hand crews, dozers, tenders and FS still get 12s. The 24s are generally evenly split, so coverage is the same each day and night, and typically no one gets off the line until their relief shows up. No matter who is running the show, there will be a meeting in the morning, then as the day progresses a lot of hurry up and wait while plans are adjusted and passed down to the crews. No matter what, fighting a large fire is a shitshow, and I couldn't even imagine what it would be like to IC something like that, but yes, some things can be done better.

[Garth Bimble]

The issue is trying to escape in your car, ya ding dong. It's not to go outside and run from the fire.

If you don't know how to open the door you probably shouldn't be driving a car either, ya ding dong.

See the red cord with the big red handle? Duh.

[snapt]

LSL obviously hasn’t been involved with a Cal Fire led show 😂

[muted reborn]

If you don't know how to open the door you probably shouldn't be driving a car either, ya ding dong.

The directions are for old frail people who are in their 80s and 90s who need to be told what to do, please call them idiots all you want - it won't help. If you are going to call people idiots, have some context so you don't sound like an idiot yourself, deflecting won't help you.

[Kevo]

I'm so heartbroken for Superior and Louisville. I've seen many Marshallfire hashtags on Twitter/Instagram looking for lost pets.

Lots of lives and childhoods were forever changed yesterday.