Wine Geekery

[Cruiser]

In my experience, old white wine is less palatable for relatively novice drinkers than old red wine. Obviously, being moelleux in style will help as it'll have a good bit of residual sugar but I'd caution you against leaving it down there too long unless you're going to serve to to a bunch of pro cork sniffers cuz the residual sugar may not be enough to engage people after the primary fruit begins to really fade into the background.

In my house we'd plan to open that sort of thing at around 20yo even though it'll last until it's 30+. Fwiw, I've got one lonely bottle of '65 moelleux down in the cellar and can't seem to find an appropriate context in which to open it cuz it'll surely be very very geeky.

Worth remembering that it's not enough for wine to taste interesting. It also needs to taste delicious.

[ex-powderbroker]

easy drinking inexpensive bordeaux last night at a restaurant, i need to see what this is going for in stores.

[neufox47]

I’m not usually a Sonoma Pinot fan but this was amazing.

Had some 2015 Gandona Cabernet too and that was one of the best Cabs I’ve ever had.

[Cruiser]

easy drinking inexpensive bordeaux last night at a restaurant, i need to see what this is going for in stores.

Restaurant markup is usually about 4x whereas retail is usually more like 1.5x. So just divide the restaurant wine list price by 4 then multiply that number by 1.5 and that should get you pretty close to what you'd expect to see it going for in a shop.

[ex-powderbroker]

ok sweet, quebec comes through with the solid french values again. they were charging 64cad and it looks like i’ll spend 30usd in a shop this weekend. i’m not sure if 30 qualifies as a bargain but it was really in my style, lighter and some good fruit.

[Cruiser]

Of all the regions that have benefited from the warming climate and the ready availability of modern winemaking equipment Bordeaux may have seen the most dramatic rise in overall quality. So many petite chateau used to turn out mediocre, under ripe, horsey reds at least 6 out of 10 vintages. Nowadays the region pumps out clean, drinkable wine even in average quality vintages like that '17. $20 should buy you consistently good Bordeaux these days whereas, by contrast, $20 California red is a minefield of residual sugar and artificial manipulation.

[tgapp]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I read it all, but to be honest I'm still a little overwhelmed.

If anyone can tell me "Go to the shitty state run liquor store and spend $50 and find this bottle and drink it and think of _____ (whatever, stone fruit with big tannins and a pleasing mouthfeel) I'll totally do it.

Otherwise, I have a list of words that mean nothing to me. Cahors, Cotes du Rhone, Rioja. Do I just show up and be like "Hey y'all got any of that Rioja?? I want the good stuff." or if I ask for CdR (as the industry insiders know it as), can I say "I'm looking for one of the lower valley CdR, you know, one of the true village wines."

I'm imagining I'll get a lot of blank stares at the Ogden, Utah DABC.

[Flounder]

All I got for you is the 10/10 rule a sommelier passed along to me years ago. Never open a bottle that costs more than $10 after 10pm. Now matter how cool you think it is, after a couple of hours of drinking, palettes are shot and no one will appreciate the quality of that $100+ bottle.

[Cruiser]

Must euro wine is listed by place not by grape. So if you go to your local shop and tell them you want to see the all the rioja (see if they have anything from Lopez de Heredia and buy it immediately if they do) they'll show it to you.

The rhone is the same, just ask and they'll take you there. I would go to your local and tell whoever is there to show you the section of cotes du rhone (do not attempt to use an acronym, ffs). Once there I'd do a 1st sort for 2015 or 2016. After that I'd sort again by village hunting specifically for gigondas, plan de dieu, sablet, rasteau, or vacqueras. Those village names will be prominently listed on the front label. If there's no village on the front label it's cuz there isn't one to list.

I would ask to see the wines from ribera del duero. See if they have the producer valderiz in stock at $30ish in that ribera del duero section but if not just buy whatever for $20-30 cuz they're all pretty plump and modern.

Post what you find and I'll fire you off a reply with generic tasting notes for the region/varietal and some basic food pairing suggestions.

[tgapp]

All I got for you is the 10/10 rule a sommelier passed along to me years ago. Never open a bottle that costs more than $10 after 10pm. Now matter how cool you think it is, after a couple of hours of drinking, palettes are shot and no one will appreciate the quality of that $100+ bottle.

Yeah I mean, I'm a long term scotch (and whiskey) drinker, a certified BJCP beer judge, and a coffee cupper. I definitely have a basic understanding of how palates work and whenever drinking alcohol I always start with the nicest stuff first, then switch to cocktails or beer or whatever after.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[doebedoe]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I read it all, but to be honest I'm still a little overwhelmed.

If anyone can tell me "Go to the shitty state run liquor store and spend $50 and find this bottle and drink it and think of _____ (whatever, stone fruit with big tannins and a pleasing mouthfeel) I'll totally do it.

Otherwise, I have a list of words that mean nothing to me. Cahors, Cotes du Rhone, Rioja. Do I just show up and be like "Hey y'all got any of that Rioja?? I want the good stuff." or if I ask for CdR (as the industry insiders know it as), can I say "I'm looking for one of the lower valley CdR, you know, one of the true village wines."

I'm imagining I'll get a lot of blank stares at the Ogden, Utah DABC.

Are you able to get wine shipped to you in Utah? If so it might be easier to give you suggestions of that sort. Hard to know what sorts of bottles might be in your local store.

For Rioja anything by López de Heredia or La Rioja Alta is going to be very good and typically a fair price.

For Cotes du Rhone -- there isn't a lot of bad Chateauneuf du Pape (though be weery of anything <$40 -- it's just not possible to make good CdP for less due to land/fruit prices). If you want to spend a little less, look for a bottle that says Gigondas.

There must be some DBAC in town that wine folks buy from and has someone who knows that they are doing. If you can find that place the way I would ask is:

"I'm looking for a Gigondas in the $30-50 range" or "Do you have any classic style Riojas for around $40?"

Honestly -- you're gonna have a lot of hits/misses as you discover your palette. You'll have overwhelming bottles for $20 and underwhelming $50 bottles. You may discover you're a Buster and are a true fan of one varietal or production style and start zeroing in. Or you may discover you're like me and you dig a wide variety of stuff from the perfection of Burgundy to weird ass skin-contact wines from Georgia.

[ghosthop]

Are you able to get wine shipped to you in Utah?

Utah is a minefield when it comes to wine. Legally, wine cannot be shipped to your home. Wine club bottles have to be bought through a state store which will add an 88%!! markup on the cost plus shipping. I was told you can special order wines through state stores if there is an existing relationship with an importer/distributer but that it is by the case only. So good luck getting anything remotely allocated if you're Joe Mormon on the street.

tgapp, if it's in your budget I would also recommend going to a few restaurants with good glass pour lists and tasting to hone in on a region/varietal you are interested in before going to the store. It helps to know where to find good value but is a wasted exercise if you don't care for the style. Personally, I find young CdR to be too reductive almost across the board but my wife might rave about the same bottle. The flipside is we have some '16 Côte Rôtie in the basement but won't be opening that anytime soon.

We had a great time at Under Current, their BTG as about 3x bigger than what is listed online. Fun selection of French whites and low intervention California winemakers. We were recommended Provisions, Finca, Nomad East, and Pago as well but never made it to them because my wife's boss kept taking us out. Tough deal.

Once you get an idea of what you like, as was recommended above it's good to learn importers. To go along with that are specific reps if they are on the smaller side. I already know that I will be relying on Flora/Fauna in SLC because he reps almost every single importer we regularly buy. He was responsive and helpful when I sent a note. He also made it clear that stores 35 and 41 in SLC are the only ones worth going to.

[BmillsSkier]

That said I think there's some decent values in Oregon pinot noirs by Patricia Green, Broadley (their estate was always a stalwart value), Bergstrom, Willakenzie.
There's a slew of decent Cali pinots, like above, my favs include Rhys, Rivers Marie, Hirsch, Peay, older Kistlers, Littorai, but you're really talking $60+ for those. Less $ but still good include Failla, Siduri, Patz & Hall,

I fucking love me some Patty Green and Lemelson from the Willamette.

Patz & Hall chardonnay is outstanding as well.

[neufox47]

A decent wine bar is also a good way to try. Most have flights of each varietal you can go through. Take notes.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Buster Highmen]

In my experience, old white wine is less palatable for relatively novice drinkers than old red wine. Obviously, being moelleux in style will help as it'll have a good bit of residual sugar but I'd caution you against leaving it down there too long

Probably true...

In my house we'd plan to open that sort of thing at around 20yo even though it'll last until it's 30+. Fwiw, I've got one lonely bottle of '65 moelleux down in the cellar and can't seem to find an appropriate context in which to open it cuz it'll surely be very very geeky.

Yup.

Worth remembering that it's not enough for wine to taste interesting. It also needs to taste delicious.

Spot on.

[Buster Highmen]

I fucking love me some Patty Green and Lemelson from the Willamette.

you realize Lemurson went to Reed?

Patz & Hall chardonnay is outstanding as well.

super price point.

[BmillsSkier]

you realize Lemurson went to Reed?

super price point.

Did not! So did that super snarky bartender at the Driftwood Room but I don’t hold that against her either

[Buster Highmen]

Did not! So did that super snarky bartender at the Driftwood Room but I don’t hold that against her either

well, they did invent a variety of ecstacy @ Reed, she just doesn't know herstory.

just snagged some 83 Climens @$35/375ml

[doebedoe]

Once you get an idea of what you like, as was recommended above it's good to learn importers. To go along with that are specific reps if they are on the smaller side. I already know that I will be relying on Flora/Fauna in SLC because he reps almost every single importer we regularly buy. He was responsive and helpful when I sent a note. He also made it clear that stores 35 and 41 in SLC are the only ones worth going to.

This right here is the primo beta. Find a good distributor --> find who buys a lot of their wine (best selection and best price typically) --> go to retailer and enjoy.

[chaka]

I’m not usually a Sonoma Pinot fan but this was amazing.

Had some 2015 Gandona Cabernet too and that was one of the best Cabs I’ve ever had.

Williams Selyem doesn't really follow the mold of the rest of the sonoma area offerings, does it. Yum

[chaka]

In my experience, old white wine is less palatable for relatively novice drinkers than old red wine. Obviously, being moelleux in style will help as it'll have a good bit of residual sugar but I'd caution you against leaving it down there too long unless you're going to serve to to a bunch of pro cork sniffers cuz the residual sugar may not be enough to engage people after the primary fruit begins to really fade into the background.

In my house we'd plan to open that sort of thing at around 20yo even though it'll last until it's 30+. Fwiw, I've got one lonely bottle of '65 moelleux down in the cellar and can't seem to find an appropriate context in which to open it cuz it'll surely be very very geeky.

Worth remembering that it's not enough for wine to taste interesting. It also needs to taste delicious.

Thanks. I was thinking around 20 yrs. I'm somewhere between novice and pro cork

[nickwm21]

The Sommelier from Bon Appetit - Andre Mac - has some fun YouTube videos reviewing cheap wines. Worth a watch. He actually finds some winners…

https://youtu.be/jLSHUyzOzWs



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Cruiser]

Oldie but a goodie. Plucked from the depths cuz of this thread. Still have 1 lonely bottle each of 03 & 04 for an amusing mini vertical later.

[nickwm21]

I picked up a case $18 Tempranillo Reserva (2015) from Ollauri - I’m going to shove it in my crawl space and forget about it for a few years


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[El Chupacabra]

Undead undead undead