To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[XXX-er]

If yer looking for fucked up new shit Alberta is a good one to watch

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...d-19-1.6200480
jason Kenny could lose his job over this but I doubt it, he is a survivor

" One-quarter of Alberta's active cases are between ages 5 and 19 " maybe you wana get those kids vaxed sooner than later ?

[bodywhomper]

I am of the opinion that we will end up learning to live with Covid and not dying or becoming seriously ill is my benchmark.

I’m trying to accept that, too, but waiting for my youngers to be fully vaxed and hoping for better info and therapeutics for long covid.

What’s the story with long covid as a result of vax breakthrough infections? How about the therapeutics? I have several friends that caught covid per vax that are still suffering. One has brain fog that is professionally debilitating at times and interferes in some of everyday life. An executive at an IT firm. Spouse brought it home (HCW).

[LongShortLong]

I’ve heard Slavitt talk about the oral vax concept for months and possibly the best method for administration.

What about anal? I think there’s a school board candidate in TX who’d prefer that method. Probably some everywhere.

Early on, there was some discussion of Covid inoculation via these methods. The theory was that infection via the digestive system might be milder than via the respiratory system. Don't know what became of it. Perhaps any Covid is too dangerous for inoculation, and no trial was ever done.

As for others' comments about J+J, for vaccine holdouts, J+J allows full vaccination in 2 weeks, which is an advantage if you delayed until you lose your paycheck in two weeks.

[old goat]

Doctor -

I believe you are overestimating the amount of work that is going into some of these database studies -

the reports I read over the weekend regarding Possible adverse cardiac events, trying to associate possible myocarditis involved no follow-up.
they were Only statistical assessment of datapoint collection -

the Only One single case of myocarditis reported was in a male, grouped ages 12 -39 -


we've got one doing a postDoc. PhD in Epidemiology ( in the midwest ) right now, and

her work to-date in the PhD program has involved literature review and data reassessment
( there was field work in the previous eight years and the previous 25years ( Thank you, 4H. And the universities... ) )


my point ? Some of this 'science' is Very loose.

Much of this data is entered electronically, and
If you have access to the database, it is just a matter of entering the parameters to be tagged, and then running the data through the computer to generate the statistics !

and you know all of this - and were just reminiscing for the days when data collection was done 'by-hand'
( I remember those days... ) --


I can see two 'reasons' why someone might choose J&J - especially if they were opposed to covid vaccination -

J&J is a 'viral vector' product ; it is not a mRNA product ; And

it was a single-dose vaccination.

in every case, it is tragic for her Family, and it is premature for me to see anything that would dismiss or minimize that loss.

( in 2021, I cannot imagine losing a parent as a five year old or a three year old ( to a vaccination reaction ) -

Awful. )


respectfully. tj

Sorry to have to inform you that a lot of database work is still done by hand. My kid just spent three years doing exactly that. How automated it is depends on what you are looking for, what database you are using. While you can set search parameters someone still has to look at the raw data that gets spit out. Somewhat time consuming but free, because residents. And yes--chart review, database review, whatever you want to call it is somewhat loose, depending on how good the db is, how good the search parameters are, and how well the raw data is sifted.

While the randomized double blind controlled prospective study may be the gold standard, sometimes record review is the best or only way to answer the question you are asking. (A rdbcp study to measure viral load would mean randomizing people between vaccine and placebo, testing everyone frequently, and measuring the viral load in everyone who tests positive. Unless someone measured viral load in the phase 3 vaccine trials that opportunity is gone--no one is going to be giving anyone placebo vaccines.

[bennymac]

In Portugal, There Is Virtually No One Left to Vaccinate

https://news.yahoo.com/portugal-virt...l?guccounter=1

Portugal’s health care system was on the verge of collapse. Hospitals in the capital, Lisbon, were overflowing and authorities were asking people to treat themselves at home. In the last week of January, nearly 2,000 people died as the virus spread.

Eight months later, Portugal is among the world’s leaders in vaccinations, with roughly 86% of its population of 10.3 million fully vaccinated. About 98% of all of those eligible for vaccines — meaning anyone over 12 — have been fully vaccinated

“We believe we have reached the point of group protection and nearly herd immunity,” Vice Adm. Henrique Gouveia e Melo, a former submarine squadron commander (in charge of vax effort) said. “Things look very good.”

On Friday, Portugal ended nearly all of its coronavirus restrictions. There has been a sharp drop in new cases, to about 650 a day, and vanishingly few deaths.

Asked what other countries can do to bolster their own vaccination efforts, he did not hesitate to offer his best advice.

“They need to find people who are not politicians,” he said.

——

Wow.

[BobMc]

I have a friend that works in my industry, was once a sponsored snowboarder at the Bird. He’s always been conspiracy theory guy but was a longtime Berniebro. When Bernie didn’t get the nomination he went down the Q rat hole.

I had to unfriend him on the book as it’s a steady stream of misinformation themed around how he knows more than the “sheep.” He’s pretty much surrounded by like minded folks, most of the smart friends he had quit arguing with him long ago.

I still cruise by his page once in a while to see if he’s holding tight to the moronosphere. Every once in a while one of his non-bot friends will chime in, usually to hilarity.



That is an actual conversation of a mechanic describing repudiating his medical doctor. This is what we are up against.

[skiJ]

goat ...

I believe we are comparing proverbial 'apples and tomatoes'

over the weekend, I reviewed several studies that were cited trying to support the idea of myocarditis associated with (covid) vaccination ;
in the studies I reviewed, I found a report of only One case of myocarditis, though the modeling claimed incidence rates from six / million to (162.2) / million --


I am glad for your son's work with double-blind clinical trials - they will remain an important part of clinical trials.


nowhere was I (talking about) clinical trials - I specifically stated I was referring to database statistical (studies) ;

the study you and jono were assessing appears to me to be such a study -
using covid testing, it compares viral loads in unvaccinated and vaccinated populations -
it is not a clinical trial. and

I was making no claims about clinical trials.


it has been a long day - and I am grumpy ( mostly about comments made about the death of a woman who died after being vaccinated so she could volunteer at her childrens' school ).


I am glad for your son's "Gold Standard" clinical trial training ( and Education ).

with due respect. tj

[Conundrum]

Meanwhile where I live, our right wing gov leaves the state on official business and our crazy eyes thread allstar Lt. Gov starts signing executive orders outlawing vaccine and testing mandates in public schools. She's also waiting for her court date for a contempt charge for attempting to violate public records laws on critical race theory.

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/po...a-d9c6575cfe64

[Mazderati]

Sorry to have to inform you that a lot of database work is still done by hand. My kid just spent three years doing exactly that. How automated it is depends on what you are looking for, what database you are using. While you can set search parameters someone still has to look at the raw data that gets spit out. Somewhat time consuming but free, because residents. And yes--chart review, database review, whatever you want to call it is somewhat loose, depending on how good the db is, how good the search parameters are, and how well the raw data is sifted.

While the randomized double blind controlled prospective study may be the gold standard, sometimes record review is the best or only way to answer the question you are asking. (A rdbcp study to measure viral load would mean randomizing people between vaccine and placebo, testing everyone frequently, and measuring the viral load in everyone who tests positive. Unless someone measured viral load in the phase 3 vaccine trials that opportunity is gone--no one is going to be giving anyone placebo vaccines.

You keep saying retrospective research is free but I can assure you there is a bill and someone is paying it. Governments and orgs with valuable data know it and are not afraid to charge for it. The National Death Index was $0.15 per patient, per year searched ten years ago.

[ill-advised strategy]

Somebody sent this to me today



Pretty rough. I don’t even know what to say anymore.

[ghosthop]

What kind of database work is he doing by hand for retrospective studies?

Not a physician and not covid related but I am in the middle of cleaning up data for a retrospective that is an MD holding onto charts for patients under a specific umbrella. There is no magic drop-down menu, everything has to be double checked and entered by hand. Once it's all entered we will slay with R.

OG, I know you're old school but resident labor isn't free. My wife is PGY-5 and the time it takes for her to get work done could be well spent doing a million other things. Q2 call and covid bullshit over the past 2 years and she's upset because she won't get double digits published this year.

[yeahman]

Meanwhile where I live, our right wing gov leaves the state on official business and our crazy eyes thread allstar Lt. Gov starts signing executive orders outlawing vaccine and testing mandates in public schools. She's also waiting for her court date for a contempt charge for attempting to violate public records laws on critical race theory.

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/po...a-d9c6575cfe64

Jeebus what a fucking mess of insanity. Is there no mechanism for removing her from office?

[altasnob]

Both Gov. and Lt. Gov. are Republicans too. I thought they were supposed to work together. It's not the first time Lt. Gov. McGeachin wrote executive orders when the real Gov. is away. She did the same thing last May, banning mask mandates. It's all a political stunt. She is running against the Gov. in 2022. She's also from Idaho Falls, which explains a lot.

[old goat]

goat ...

I believe we are comparing proverbial 'apples and tomatoes'

over the weekend, I reviewed several studies that were cited trying to support the idea of myocarditis associated with (covid) vaccination ;
in the studies I reviewed, I found a report of only One case of myocarditis, though the modeling claimed incidence rates from six / million to (162.2) / million --


I am glad for your son's work with double-blind clinical trials - they will remain an important part of clinical trials.


nowhere was I (talking about) clinical trials - I specifically stated I was referring to database statistical (studies) ;

the study you and jono were assessing appears to me to be such a study -
using covid testing, it compares viral loads in unvaccinated and vaccinated populations -
it is not a clinical trial. and

I was making no claims about clinical trials.


it has been a long day - and I am grumpy ( mostly about comments made about the death of a woman who died after being vaccinated so she could volunteer at her childrens' school ).


I am glad for your son's "Gold Standard" clinical trial training ( and Education ).

with due respect. tj

What I am writing and what your are reading don't sound like the same thing. I am going to back away.

[old goat]

Not a physician and not covid related but I am in the middle of cleaning up data for a retrospective that is an MD holding onto charts for patients under a specific umbrella. There is no magic drop-down menu, everything has to be double checked and entered by hand. Once it's all entered we will slay with R.

OG, I know you're old school but resident labor isn't free. My wife is PGY-5 and the time it takes for her to get work done could be well spent doing a million other things. Q2 call and covid bullshit over the past 2 years and she's upset because she won't get double digits published this year.

There's been a lot of reform in residency but when it comes to using residents as research labor things are very much old school--as you point out. Progressive is when the resident who does the work gets first author credit. Even more progressive is when the resident gets to present at a meeting. Super progressive is when the meeting is in a nice place. I was lucky that way. My kid is at level 2--no meetings in nice places yet. And of course residents aren't really free--at least in surgery there's a year or two of being in the lab, collecting a salary. Although not all residencies pay a salary to lab residents. My son got a salary but some residents in his year (Beth Israel-Deaconess) got nothing and had to get by entirely by moonlighting--taking call shifts for money in addition to the full days work doing research. They also get charged $400 a month for a parking pass, which is why my kid rides his bike all year.

[LongShortLong]

I have a friend that works in my industry, was once a sponsored snowboarder at the Bird. He’s always been conspiracy theory guy but was a longtime Berniebro. When Bernie didn’t get the nomination he went down the Q rat hole.

I had to unfriend him on the book as it’s a steady stream of misinformation themed around how he knows more than the “sheep.” He’s pretty much surrounded by like minded folks, most of the smart friends he had quit arguing with him long ago.

I still cruise by his page once in a while to see if he’s holding tight to the moronosphere. Every once in a while one of his non-bot friends will chime in, usually to hilarity.



That is an actual conversation of a mechanic describing repudiating his medical doctor. This is what we are up against.

Agree. This is what I get from my "research" team as well. Little idea how to set them free. I sow seeds of doubt, but the firehose of social media and their friend circle washes it all away before any sprout. And it's too tempting to troll which likely doesn't help. I even get shot down for supporting their point sometimes (comes from me so it must be wrong). Cognitive dissonance is real.

[mcski]

Yep. Plus it’s all a conspiracy and they know the truth

[jono]

Agree. This is what I get from my "research" team as well. Little idea how to set them free. I sow seeds of doubt, but the firehose of social media and their friend circle washes it all away before any sprout. And it's too tempting to troll which likely doesn't help. I even get shot down for supporting their point sometimes (comes from me so it must be wrong). Cognitive dissonance is real.

Sounds familiar. I'm sure it will get worse before it gets better. I'm not sure it gets better.

[old goat]

Got the flu shot yesterday. Hit me a lot harder than Moderna # 2. Fortunately the flu isn't covid.

[riser4]

Got the flu shot yesterday. Hit me a lot harder than Moderna # 2. Fortunately the flu isn't covid.

Stop watching the lamestream media. Of course covid is the flu.

[Bunion 2020]

Sounds familiar. I'm sure it will get worse before it gets better. I'm not sure it gets better.

I won't quote this article in order to avoid the politicization. Safe to say, a pandemic, apocalypse, religion and politics combine to create an ugly monster.

https://www.thebulwark.com/the-apoca...-gets-weirder/

[muted reborn]

Somebody sent this to me today



Pretty rough. I don’t even know what to say anymore.

I love how it's just click bait for a minute long supplement ad at the end. This guy makes narcissistic content for the same reason why Alex Jones does: to make money off suckers. Pander to morons with disingenuous concepts and some performance acting, then sell them more bullshit like some pills to "reduce brain fog and get clear thinking" because the people watching can certainly relate to having brain fog and unclear thinking day-to-day, right?

That said, holy shit the right wingers finally have one guy on their side with a fucking sense of humor! Even if its just cheap shot trope, I'm still happy for those guys....finally, man.

[Harry]

They also get charged $400 a month for a parking pass,

I did not realize your kid worked at a ski area.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[frorider]

AURORA, Colo. (CBS4) – A Colorado woman with stage 5 renal failure was months away from getting a new kidney. Now, she and her donor are looking for another hospital after learning UCHealth’s new policy.

According to UCHealth (University of Colorado Health), the majority of transplant recipients and living donors are now required to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Neither woman has received their shots.

Leilani Lutali met her donor, Jaimee Fougner, in Bible study just 10 months ago.

……

[CarlMega]

^excellent decision making. "I think I'll just wait on this....kidney because I'm scared of the big bad jab." Maybe rub some ivermectin on it. Welp enjoy the dialysis.