To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[jono]

I understand the desire to have antibody testing - especially for people who claim they have immunity to covid from infection -

the claim I am here to make is as a matter of pandemic response, And cost effectiveness, there is a more cost effective option - Vaccination.


the bill for all of this is going to come due -
right now, the cost of most of this is being added to 'merica's national debt - - ( edit. Each country, for that matter )

If you want an antibody test, that's fine, If you can pay for it. but

But as a matter of trying to limit the disease ( and limit the spread of the disease ),

Vaccination is the cost-effective tool.

I think you describe the obvious answer for 95+% of people. And Americans can be relied upon to do the right thing--after they've tried everything else. There's a fraction who will resist the right thing even harder if they aren't "allowed" to try everything else. And another (larger?) fraction that only accept the truth if they feel they've discovered it themselves. So letting them shoulder the cost and try the alternative might be the more expedient way to illustrate how obvious this choice should be. If they can find a way to do it reliably.

[SumJongGuy]

Has iodine fallen out of favor so quickly?

And leeches!

[mcphee]

It’s now been 6 weeks of skidog trying and failing to suck his own dick in here. Pretty sad considering it takes minimal effort for a dog to do so.

Even sadder that we keep telling him how it should be done.

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[SumJongGuy]

It’s now been 6 weeks of skidog trying and failing to suck his own dick in here. Pretty sad considering it takes minimal effort for a dog to do so.


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Well, it is possible...

[Tri-Ungulate]

I've been phd scientist in the Infectious Disease field working on both vaccines and diagnostics, since 2003.

...and a dentist, to boot.


Anyway, if there's any doubt that teh TRGs have gone full endstage-TeleTips this thread is proof.

[skiJ]

I think you describe the obvious answer for 95+% of people. And Americans can be relied upon to do the right thing--after they've tried everything else. There's a fraction who will resist the right thing even harder if they aren't "allowed" to try everything else. And another (larger?) fraction that only accept the truth if they feel they've discovered it themselves. So letting them shoulder the cost and try the alternative might be the more expedient way to illustrate how obvious this choice should be. If they can find a way to do it reliably.

thanks, jono - and Thank you... !

as this thread has drifted ( and then gone a little crazy in the past week ) I thought there might be value in looking at the origin of the thread -

I wish the answer was obvious to 95+% of the people - we would be well on the way to eliminating the threat from this virus.


Saturday night's report was 70million Americans eligible remain unvaccinated ; I calculate that to be approximately 23% of the population ( given that young children are not yet eligible for vaccination ) ...

If we are at 77% vaccination, and 70million remain unvaccinated, ,,, to me, that means we are going to fall Ten million people short of population immunity. Ten million is a lot of people - -


my background is cost effective public health. I appreciate the idea of antibody testing, but as a matter of cost effectiveness ( including the bureaucratic cost of documenting antibody testing and tracking antibody testing. . . ) - Today I read two of the most outspoken 'Alpha male' critics of vaccination are ultimately, afraid of needles. god help us.


so. I just wanted to try to nudge the discussion back to the original question -

To Vaccinate or Not (?)

can we be done with this Before 2024... ?


Please. get vaccinated.


Thank you. tj

[riser4]

You’re blocked, I don’t waste time with biased, partisan hacks.

So many of you are partisan hacks.

Ooh ooh, block me next?

[jono]

SkiJ: sorry, I worded that clumsily. I didn't mean to imply that 95% see it as obvious today, rather that if they worked through it (as you outlined) that 5% or less (probably a lot less) could logically wind up thinking they'd prefer constant PCR's or even infrequent antigen testing to just getting a shot.

We just shouldn't let our enemies paint this as unreasonable (and therefore: watch out!! Control!!!) so that our idiots can help them achieve the goal of keeping us divided, unvaccinated, unmasked, diseased and/or (ultimate triumph) locked down. If convalescants want an alternative badly enough to pay for it we should let them.

[XXX-er]

a guy like mofro has been to like grade 31 to study shit at the level he is into it

instead of taking his word these fucking crayon eaters are doing their own research

and we gotta suffer thru it

[bennymac]

Ooh ooh, block me next?

Hey! There’s a line

[jackstraw]

Backwardass town close to me. The only morons in the district to vote against wearing masks.
"Seabrook schools COVID outbreak: Mask optional policy altered after 12 cases, 127 absent"

https://www.seacoastonline.com/story...6iH7clMRs98s0Q

[SumJongGuy]

a guy like mofro has been to like grade 31 to study shit at the level he is into it

instead of taking his word these fucking crayon eaters are doing their own research copying other crayon eater's work..

and we gotta suffer thru it

More like that??

[MultiVerse]

A new study comparing 4 vaccines 1) Pfizer 2) Moderna 3) J&J 4) AZ and 5) Prior Convalescent Patients for neutralization vs. Covid variants four weeks after full dosing:

- The mRNA vaccines are profoundly superior to the adenovirus vector-based vaccines at inducing neutralizing antibodies (an mRNA boost to adenovirus vector-based vaccines has been shown to be highly effective in other studies). The study also says strong neutralizing antibody responses do not alone account for the protection by current vaccines.

- Prior convalescent Covid is highly variable. Convalescent variability appears tied to severity of disease: hospitalized convalescent patients (dark gray) had more neutralization titers than patients who were not hospitalized (light gray).

- All four vaccines remained above half-maximal neutralization but the Beta, Gamma and Delta variants showed on average an 5.8-fold, 3.5-fold and 3.9-fold reduced sensitivity to neutralization from convalescent patients as well as from vaccine recipients.

- However, according to the authors, while circulating antibodies might be unable to neutralize such emerging viruses, memory B cells are still likely to recognize variants and undergo new rounds of affinity maturation, resulting in new neutralizing antibodies that should kick-in in time to prevent severe disease after infection.

- Note the importance of full vaccination

Attachment 387191

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....27.21264163v1

[old goat]

A new study comparing 4 vaccines 1) Pfizer 2) Moderna 3) J&J 4) AZ and 5) Prior Convalescent Patients for neutralization vs. Covid variants four weeks after full dosing:

- The mRNA vaccines are profoundly superior to the adenovirus vector-based vaccines at inducing neutralizing antibodies (an mRNA boost to adenovirus vector-based vaccines has been shown to be highly effective in other studies). The study also says strong neutralizing antibody responses do not alone account for the protection by current vaccines.

- Prior convalescent Covid is highly variable. Convalescent variability appears tied to severity of disease: hospitalized convalescent patients (dark gray) had more neutralization titers than patients who were not hospitalized (light gray).

- All four vaccines remained above half-maximal neutralization but the Beta, Gamma and Delta variants showed on average an 5.8-fold, 3.5-fold and 3.9-fold reduced sensitivity to neutralization from convalescent patients as well as from vaccine recipients.

- However, according to the authors, while circulating antibodies might be unable to neutralize such emerging viruses, memory B cells are still likely to recognize variants and undergo new rounds of affinity maturation, resulting in new neutralizing antibodies that should kick-in in time to prevent severe disease after infection.

- Note the importance of full vaccination

Attachment 387191

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....27.21264163v1

From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.

[SumJongGuy]

Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..

[MultiVerse]

From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.

Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..

For J&Js single-dose regimen, vaccine recipients were sampled approximately five and eight weeks after the single-dose vaccination. Separately from the study, recently released J&J data shows a second dose significantly increases efficacy.

The authors emphasize that all four vaccines are extremely effective at preventing severe disease. While neutralizing antibodies are a strong correlate of protection, antibodies alone are not the only factor when it comes to vaccine protection.

FWIW, while such a regimen is not approved in the U.S., in other countries J&J or AZ followed by an mRNA 2nd dose appears more effective than two doses of mRNA (but not the other way around).

[Skidog]

From the graph it looks like they tested J and J after 1 and 2 doses? I assume that's what post-prime 2 means. Not much difference from the second dose.

J&J is one dose

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[frorider]

And leeches!

And prayer. Don’t forget prayer.

[The AD]

J&J is one dose

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J&J is now advocating a second dose:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/2nd-do...ry?id=80138043

[jono]

(but not the other way around).

Wow. Sorta like, mRNA trains your immune system to kill off the J&J?

[ill-advised strategy]

Glad I got Moderna.. I was one click away from getting a JnJ right before they put it in hold..

My only gripe with Moderna is it seems like a waste of a perfectly good minivan name. Introducing the Chrysler Moderna!

[ex-powderbroker]

seems like some groups on twitter have been activated because norway is opening up. let the next public health experiment begin!

[CarlMega]

Wow. Sorta like, mRNA trains your immune system to kill off the J&J?

jRNA? has a ring to it.

[SumJongGuy]

My only gripe with Moderna is it seems like a waste of a perfectly good minivan name. Introducing the Chrysler Moderna!

Chevy AstraZeniVan?

[Skidog]

J&J is now advocating a second dose:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/2nd-do...ry?id=80138043

Yes I know they all are, just wasn't sure if that study actually had 2 dose people or not.

I'm still wondering what, in the data, is keeping moderna and j&j from full FDA approval? No conspiracy just wondering. I suspect we see booster info from them shortly, but why not full FDA approval then eua for boosters. Not even getting to 5-11age group, which Pfizer has already submitted data for eua. Can Pfizer just work that much more efficiently?

Totally honest query I hope Mofro might answer.

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