To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Bunion 2020]

He said, "let there be light".

Seriously? By now the one thing I have learned from this forum is there is an incredible array of people with experiences in just about any field and a lot of them are well worth taking seriously.

And then there is you.

[Skidog]

He said, "let there be light".

Seriously? By now the one thing I have learned from this forum is there is an incredible array of people with experiences in just about any field and a lot of them are well worth taking seriously.

And then there is you.

I don't not take him seriously, but is he "the authority"? That's where I draw a line. I also don't honestly dispute his credentials, only the "blind faith" in what he says.

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

welcome to the Facebook version of TGR folks.

This is a place where we will threaten to ban folks for providing other ideas.

You dont have to have ever said "dont get the vax its stupid govt conspiracy"

Have not posted any articles of "right wing" or "anti vax" nature

No articles from "fox news"

Actually agree multiple times that vax seems like the easiest solution, and think its in best interest to get one

Never debated that prior infection + vax wasn't better

I have only said that I can understand why some, that have been previously infected, might not want to get a vax.

Here at TGR we dont like these views and if you do not change to the ones we subscribe to, you could be banned. Thank you for your enjoyment of this great forum.

Who are you talking to? It’s like you’re begging and whining at the same time.


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[mtuhockey33]

Grow up. The 12 year-old argument style needs to go. Or you trolls could go start your own troll thread...
The Rat Flu Did My Own Research Thread or Rat Flu Binary Reasoning or So Much Better Than Your Rat Flu Thread

For anyone with common questions, patiently answered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-nPZETLTo
00:00:00 - Introducing Dr. Rhonda Patrick and Dr. Seheult
00:01:20 - Should young and healthy get vaccinated?
00:06:47 - Risk of myocarditis
00:10:40 - Long-haul COVID
00:19:58 - Is spike protein from vaccines dangerous?
00:35:39 - COVID-19 Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)
01:01:17 - Antibody dependent enhancement?
01:09:16 - Do COVID vaccines damage fertility?
01:14:13 - Will mRNA vaccines alter DNA?
01:22:32 - Are alternatives like ivermectin as effective as the vaccine?
01:42:02 - Do vaccines prevent Delta transmission?
01:56:04 - Will the virus become more deadly due to vaccines?
02:05:07 - T-cell immunity
02:08:34 - Long term side effects / were vaccines rushed?

don’t really need to watch something - the long term answer is: we don’t know! Isn’t that your answer to everything? Science will change in a year and this video will be wrong and you guys will just say “follow the science!” And “we’re allowed to change our minds!”

it’s okay though, I’ll still wait on legitimate answers to SkiDogs questioning on - what’s a viral load and does the same load effect everyone equally? Because your argument is everyone needs a vaccine to be protected but everyone knows that depends on viral load.

I’ll wait for a year with my viral antibodies before getting a vaccine. You guys, by that time, will probably have had 4 or 5 doses of this life saving vaccine by that time. And the best part is; the possibility of our antiviral loads in our bodies could be exactly the same during that time! Because nobody fucking knows. The holier than thou attitude of the jackasses on this thread with the hive mind is laughable at best.

but keep being deathly afraid of a virus that in less than a years time has been shown to be more like the flu than Ebola 😂

[MagnificentUnicorn]

says the one who blindly follows some dude on an ski based internet site for "expert covid advice" Don't think I ever heard MU or ANY other for that matter say they were "experts" in immunology.

Why are you bringing me into this again? I’m not an expert, I work in healthcare and provide observations and I have critical thinking skills. It feels like I’m being stalked.


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[mtuhockey33]

Shit I'll bite.

What part of creation did MoFro do?

it’s amazing that because someone works in the healthcare field, they’re automatically the fucking expert on this shit. Just like, “those dumbass antivaxxer nurses and doctors” I have no reason to believe MoFro or any other member of this board is a smart doctor. I mean if their reasoning is that someone can go to college and become a doctor and still be antivaxxer, they can’t be smart - then I have to hold the same ideals true when I consider their intelligence.

If they don’t accept other medical doctors opinions; why should we consider theirs? Don’t worry though - they don’t have a narrative and they’re not part of the hive mind ������

[Skidog]

Why are you bringing me into this again? I’m not an expert, I work in healthcare and provide observations and I have critical thinking skills. It feels like I’m being stalked.


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Whether you like it or not, you are thought of as an "authority" on this subject and your viewpoints are taken as fact more than not. It's not your fault, and to be honest I appreciate your posts as they force me to look more.
As Montucky just said. The data is changing all the time, it's still new. I've said it probably 10 times..measles took years to get to a "herd immunity" we are in the infancy stages of this one.

This is why I post the "devil's advocate" or "alternative" ideas as there is indeed another side. Many here ignore that altogether.

I'm not offended by any of the statements about my links or posts, I am offended by threats of bans for "misinformation" that are simply not true.

This place has banned very few, even time outs are infrequent. Those offenses seem more personal attack based. I am not attacking anyone. If anything the reverse because I have a different opinion on an ever changing scenario.

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[AK47bp]

Remember you cucks choose to come here and choose to read these things that infuriate you.

What’s the point? Serious question.


It would be like one of borg here reading InfoWars and getting all worked up in the comment section.


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[Adolf Allerbush]

it’s amazing that because someone works in the healthcare field, they’re automatically the fucking expert on this shit. Just like, “those dumbass antivaxxer nurses and doctors” I have no reason to believe MoFro or any other member of this board is a smart doctor. I mean if their reasoning is that someone can go to college and become a doctor and still be antivaxxer, they can’t be smart - then I have to hold the same ideals true when I consider their intelligence.

If they don’t accept other medical doctors opinions; why should we consider theirs? Don’t worry though - they don’t have a narrative and they’re not part of the hive mind ������

Amazingly ridiculous

[Skidog]

Amazingly ridiculous

Elaborate? Please.

Or was this just another canned lame response to a real question?

Answer his question. Why is mofros opinion any better than another Doctors? Because you skied with him and think he's cool? Because you know his exact qualifications and know he should be considered an authority (if so does he work at j&j, Pfizer, or moderna), or simply because he understands how it works? Pretty sure all those other vaccine docs that disagree know how it works too. Their opinion is shit cause....wait for it....Mofro on tgr said so.

I'll wait for your answer to the original question.

Mofro, I am honestly sorry you are dragged into this, but sorry you're deemed the "authority" (of many) on the TGRz

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[muted reborn]

it’s amazing that because someone works in the healthcare field, they’re automatically the fucking expert on this shit. Just like, “those dumbass antivaxxer nurses and doctors” I have no reason to believe MoFro or any other member of this board is a smart doctor. I mean if their reasoning is that someone can go to college and become a doctor and still be antivaxxer, they can’t be smart - then I have to hold the same ideals true when I consider their intelligence.

If they don’t accept other medical doctors opinions; why should we consider theirs? Don’t worry though - they don’t have a narrative and they’re not part of the hive mind ������

Hey ding dong, it's not the job they hold that makes us think they are smart, it's their intelligent thoughtful posts here that tells us so. An it's not that you disagree with people here or have a different opinion that makes you dumb, it's the hundreds of posts of not really getting ANYTHING here that tells us. Including your post above.

But carry on, deny and cry like Skidog because you got dunked on about your shingles knowledge weeks ago and can't let it go.

That still makes me smile, ha.

[Skidog]

Hey ding dong, it's not the job they hold that makes us think they are smart, it's their intelligent thoughtful posts here that tells us so. An it's not that you disagree with people here or have a different opinion that makes you dumb, it's the hundreds of posts of not really getting ANYTHING here that tells us. Including your post above.

But carry on, deny and cry like Skidog because you got dunked on about your shingles knowledge weeks ago and can't let it go.

That still makes me smile, ha.

Debunk my posts...please...I want that...but nope...it'll be hey ding dong we like what he says better than you...you're dumb.



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[old_newguy]

“Why won’t anyone take me, a self admitted and obvious troll, seriously!”

Jesus dude, give it a break.

[Skidog]

“Why won’t anyone take me, a self admitted and obvious troll, seriously!”

Jesus dude, give it a break.

Yep...troll because you ignore the other side that exists.

I again...dare you...double dog dare, challenge you to find "fake news" in any link I have posted.

Guess what? I know you idiots and do some checking before I post to make sure you can't fall back on old arguments or name calling without looking more stupid.

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[mtuhockey33]

Hey ding dong, it's not the job they hold that makes us think they are smart, it's their intelligent thoughtful posts here that tells us so. An it's not that you disagree with people here or have a different opinion that makes you dumb, it's the hundreds of posts of not really getting ANYTHING here that tells us. Including your post above.

But carry on, deny and cry like Skidog because you got dunked on about your shingles knowledge weeks ago and can't let it go.

That still makes me smile, ha.

”omg this guy was wrong weeks ago about a shingles vaccine that doesn’t pertain to him because he’s nowhere near the acceptable age to get the vaccine”

yeah you guys realllllly got me. I got “dunked on”? Whatever that means.

My points still stand. The hive mind of the idiots on this site determine what’s acceptable and what’s not. The funny thing is that you can’t see when you’re wrong or biased but find it perfectly acceptable to go full nazi on the population with mandates because there are differing opinions on a new disease that literally nobody knows the long term side effects of. Covid could have a 2 year lifespan and at the end of it, anyone who was infected would just die instantly due to the virus. Nobody fucking knows. It hasn’t even been around for two years and you guys are willfully lining up to be experiments of this new vaccine.

im good with my antibodies from the virus - I don’t need to subject my body to a new medical intervention that hasn’t been around for two years when my antibodies are just as good as yours. The only difference is I’m not trying to control everyone that doesn’t think the same way as me…

[jono]

Here's an idea for the Cockapoos: distill your best, most trusted facts down to a list. Put em in bullet form and rank them in order of descending certainty, then carefully clarify and post your top 3. No defending them. Write them so they are correct on their own.

If all 3 get debunked you STFU. If you get them right you get 3 more. 1 right you get 1 more. Just give it as much thought and care as you think that deserves. The Borg will decide.

[Skidog]

Tell me just one thing...any of you...

How many people have never been vaxxed and never had covid?

I'll wait.

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[old_newguy]

Yep...troll because you ignore the other side that exists.

I again...dare you...double dog dare, challenge you to find "fake news" in any link I have posted.

Guess what? I know you idiots and do some checking before I post to make sure you can't fall back on old arguments or name calling without looking more stupid.

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Yeah, you really deserve a serious response. Grow up.

Frankly we should give the people you are attempting to drag into you little pity party a medal for patiently responding to you for months now.

[jono]

No……

FTW

[MultiVerse]

This is why I post the "devil's advocate" or "alternative" ideas as there is indeed another side.

I'm not offended by any of the statements about my links or posts, I am offended by threats of bans for "misinformation" that are simply not true.

To be clear you haven't so much offered "alternative" ideas as you have muddled the science and misrepresented your own sources. You have yet to bring anything new to the discussion.


As for misinformation, you argued because "Delta viral loads are very similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed" vaccinated people spread the virus at the same rate as the unvaccinated. You then clung to viral loads alone saying "There is zero definitive evidence saying vaxed carry and transmit less viral load with Delta" while ignoring all the other factors for pages and pages insulting everyone and anyone along way.

When people pointed out your own CDC source said vaccinated people were less likely to be infected and therefore less likely to spread the virus you'd respond with, "got it....CDC publishing "misinformation" Thanks Doc." Yet when it was explained in terms of Zeno's paradox you conceded the point saying "Thank you. Exactly what I was seeing and in easy to understand terms."

So why are continuing to argue about viral loads when you now know and agree there's more to it?

This place has banned very few, even time outs are infrequent. Those offenses seem more personal attack based. I am not attacking anyone. If anything the reverse because I have a different opinion on an ever changing scenario.

You constantly attack and insult people, hardly a day goes by without you calling someone a "dipshit" or an "idiot" etc. Not just in this thread but in lots of other threads too.

[CarlMega]

Amazingly ridiculous

Really should ban mtu over Skidog. DeeMoron too.

For the heel diggers, this is not some arbitrary argument from authority/fallacy. Anyone making claims deserves challenge. The scientific method welcomes and invites challenge. And that is where the difference lies - qualified people who have respect in their field, also SHOW THEIR FUCKING WORK. You can follow their reasoning, there's transparency. Further, their claims tend to build upon established science - their methods are inline with the best practices in the field. Claims are usually qualified so as to not be overly broad or draw absolute conclusions that reach beyond the scope of their study.

Now contrast that with people, who don't have respect in the field or don't have any experience in the subject matter. Making absolute claims. And typically, those claims are easily refuted by even lay people. Basic reasoning flaws. Faulty inference. Misunderstanding of the information or subject matter. Appears to start with a conclusion and seeks to find evidence. Obvious political motivations. Often in stark opposition to overwhelming scientific consensus. Seldom has any collaborating evidence and, usually, if accurate would undermine the entirety of a well established field - like immunology.

You see where I'm going with this? Claims from these people fall far short from any standard to be taken seriously. In the end, you lose the benefit of credibility - whereas people who have a lifetime of study, published, with direct experience and respect of their colleagues - have earned the benefit of credibility.

So, that's why.

[mtuhockey33]

Yeah, you really deserve a serious response. Grow up.

Frankly we should give the people you are attempting to drag into you little pity party a medal for patiently responding to you for months now.

why don’t you just throw everyone on ignore that you don’t agree with like all the other snowflakes on here?? Why keep “refuting non-scientific” studies?

you’re mind isn’t going to change. You’re always going to be a cranky old guy that just yells at the sky whenever someone doesn’t agree with them. It’s okay… other people are allowed to have other opinions and, sometimes - just sometimes, those opinions are better than your own! You just have to have an open mind and stop shoving your head up your ass…

[mtuhockey33]

Really should ban mtu over Skidog. DeeMoron too.

For the heel diggers, this is not some arbitrary argument from authority/fallacy. Anyone making claims deserves challenge. The scientific method welcomes and invites challenge. And that is where the difference lies - qualified people who have respect in their field, also SHOW THEIR FUCKING WORK. You can follow their reasoning, there's transparency. Further, their claims tend to build upon established science - their methods are inline with the best practices in the field. Claims are usually qualified so as to not be overly broad or draw absolute conclusions that reach beyond the scope of their study.

Now contrast that with people, who don't have respect in the field or don't have any experience in the subject matter. Making absolute claims. And typically, those claims are easily refuted by even lay people. Basic reasoning flaws. Faulty inference. Misunderstanding of the information or subject matter. Appears to start with a conclusion and seeks to find evidence. Obvious political motivations. Often in stark opposition to overwhelming scientific consensus. Seldom has any collaborating evidence and, usually, if accurate would undermine the entirety of a well established field - like immunology.

You see where I'm going with this? Claims from these people fall far short from any standard to be taken seriously. In the end, you lose the benefit of credibility - whereas people who have a lifetime of study, published, with direct experience and respect of their colleagues - have earned the benefit of credibility.

So, that's why.

yep go ahead and ban me. Is it the same type of ban that was given to Salve? Do bans really even have meaning anymore? If I make another profile and don’t upset the borg mind I’d be fine.

I have over 20 completed gear trades (yeah whatever it’s not a lot) but I can guarantee that every trade I’ve made - nobody would say a bad thing about me.

but when the borg speaks and you speak out against it - “we need to ban them - reeeee reeeeeeee”

[old_newguy]

why don’t you just throw everyone on ignore that you don’t agree with like all the other snowflakes on here?? Why keep “refuting non-scientific” studies?

you’re mind isn’t going to change. You’re always going to be a cranky old guy that just yells at the sky whenever someone doesn’t agree with them. It’s okay… other people are allowed to have other opinions and, sometimes - just sometimes, those opinions are better than your own! You just have to have an open mind and stop shoving your head up your ass…

He’s getting close, let’s see if he can close the loop.

[CarlMega]

He’s getting close, let’s see if he can close the loop.

That was quite a rant. But clearly, he's not upset.