To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[skiJ]

guys...

Skidog received a warning -

he responded with profanity and clearly stated Lack-of-care ( about being banned ), demanding that His sources be discredited ;

I have tried to review today's posts with detachment - which is difficult for me Because I love this community ( tgr's forums ) ;

the conclusion I have come to - and it can be disclaimed as My opinion -
. . . the conclusion I have come to is Skidog and mtu want to be banned
( mtu has already stated he would create another profile... )

to my reading, they seek attention; they will forever pursue the argument(,) for the sake of pursuing the argument
( on some level, I believe it is anti-social behavior ( and I am sure there is a more specific term, but I am not a student of Psychology )


I have said it before -

please,
Please ! do not respond to those who have demonstrated they only seek the attention of the argument !

( ultimately, it will be Much more effective than having moderators or administrators take action )


Skidog., I am sorry - Because I believe you believe you are well-intended. and up-to- a -point, I see that ( and I have been there myself. )
But there is also something very unhealthy going on, as most clearly demonstrated in your almost single-handed destruction of the '9-11. twentieth anniversary' thread ;

mtu. a pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people(,) is Not about the individual nor your personal Choice, nor your 'personal freedom' -
as a member of the species and as, ,,, a part of society, we should all be working against the virus ( several in this thread clearly are In Real Life. )
I will hope for you that something or someone in your Life shows you that it is not all about you ( - but
I will also fear that this is something you will never understand. I am sorry for you for that. )


to the substance of the intention of the thread, I will offer a couple of Simple thoughts -

- All immunity is 'natural immunity' whether it is initiated by Vaccination or infection ;
( the Risk of infection is unacceptable ( and not-imaginable ) to me ) ;

- ( I mentioned it above - ) the pandemic is Not about the individual - it is about our responsibility to those around us - and the best tool we have to combat the virus is Vaccination.
sadly, some will not see this - Ever. you will not ever persuade them, the quote is attributed to Lincoln,

' you can persuade some of the people, none of the time... '


Good luck -
I think /// Please ! ignore the trolls - please. . .


respectfully. tj

[mtuhockey33]

guys...

Skidog received a warning -

he responded with profanity and clearly stated Lack-of-care ( about being banned ), demanding that His sources be discredited ;

I have tried to review today's posts with detachment - which is difficult for me Because I love this community ( tgr's forums ) ;

the conclusion I have come to - and it can be disclaimed as My opinion -
. . . the conclusion I have come to is Skidog and mtu want to be banned
( mtu has already stated he would create another profile... )

to my reading, they seek attention; they will forever pursue the argument(,) for the sake of pursuing the argument
( on some level, I believe it is anti-social behavior ( and I am sure there is a more specific term, but I am not a student of Psychology )


I have said it before -

please,
Please ! do not respond to those who have demonstrated they only seek the attention of the argument !

( ultimately, it will be Much more effective than having moderators or administrators take action )


Skidog., I am sorry - Because I believe you believe you are well-intended. and up-to- a -point, I see that ( and I have been there myself. )
But there is also something very unhealthy going on, as most clearly demonstrated in your almost single-handed destruction of the '9-11. twentieth anniversary' thread ;

mtu. a pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people(,) is Not about the individual nor your personal Choice, nor your 'personal freedom' -
as a member of the species and as, ,,, a part of society, we should all be working against the virus ( several in this thread clearly are In Real Life. )
I will hope for you that something or someone in your Life shows you that it is not all about you ( - but
I will also fear that this is something you will never understand. I am sorry for you for that. )


to the substance of the intention of the thread, I will offer a couple of Simple thoughts -

- All immunity is 'natural immunity' whether it is initiated by Vaccination or infection ;
( the Risk of infection is unacceptable ( and not-imaginable ) to me ) ;

- ( I mentioned it above - ) the pandemic is Not about the individual - it is about our responsibility to those around us - and the best tool we have to combat the virus is Vaccination.
sadly, some will not see this - Ever. you will not ever persuade them, the quote is attributed to Lincoln,

' you can persuade some of the people, none of the time... '


Good luck -
I think /// Please ! ignore the trolls - please. . .


respectfully. tj

if this truly was about ending the pandemic, we would have antibody tests readily available at every CVS/Walgreens/etc and instead of everyone trying to get everyone a vaccine, they’d be more focused on getting people the antibodies needed to fight off the virus.

I’m sorry you choose to believe the hive mind that the only way out of this is through getting everyone a vaccine when there’s substantial proof that previously infected people have the same response or better than a vaccine.

the people that need the shots are the ones who have never had Covid and haven’t gotten vaccinated. Those are the people you should focus on rather than everyone who doesn’t want a vaccine. Unfortunately that seems to go over everyone’s head here

[k2skier112]

"COVID Antibody Tests Can't Measure Your Immunity — Not Yet : Shots - Health News : NPR" https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...covid-immunity

[Bunion 2020]

Unfortunately that seems to go over everyone’s head here

Does your maid take care of the Ironing?

[MultiVerse]

the people that need the shots are the ones who have never had Covid and haven’t gotten vaccinated. Those are the people you should focus on rather than everyone who doesn’t want a vaccine. Unfortunately that seems to go over everyone’s head here

It doesn't go over everyone’s head here. Your case would be helped if you didn't alternate between attacking the vaccine and making your point about natural infection.

Even though you've said in the quote above people who haven't been vaccinated should get vaccinated, a lot of your comments have attacked the vaccines directly, downplayed the death toll, and argued in favor of herd immunity. You've also spent a lot time defending the unvaccinated, not just the previously infected. All those arguments get conflated.

You'd also have a stronger case if you acknowledged the preponderance of evidence showing people with prior infection +1 dose are much better protected than infection alone⁠—instead of saying there's no benefit and instead of constantly calling vaccines untested and unsafe.

In other words, your argument is a lot stronger if you focus on job mandates instead of the anti-vax noise. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future natural immunity, either through the courts or the government figuring out how to do it, is granted the same concessions as vaccination.

[LongShortLong]

I believe you are mixing together a few definitions which I’m pretty sure have been discussed in this thread, viral load and infectious dose.

Viral load - a measurement of the amount of a virus in an organism, typically in the bloodstream, usually stated in virus particles per milliliter.

Well then... thanks for correcting

[old_newguy]

Well then... thanks for correcting

I’m certainly not an expert. Just a pedant for definitions.

[skiJ]

so now I need to honor my own request -


how many times have Multi- and LSL stated(,)

immunity is not about antibodies, but about T-cells and B-cells; but

still he claims we need antibody tests...


no. we don't - Because we have a tested Vaccination - that has significantly less Risk than the risks of infection.

again, the best tool we have To immunity is Vaccination. And the best tool we have to control the spread of the virus is Vaccination. ( I will leave the statistics to others )


( for what it's worth, My 'hive mind' is based on years of university education and forty years of work in public health.
( My concern is no longer for me, but for the risk to my elderly neighbors and my elderly friends ) )


good luck. tj


finally. we are currently ( September 2021 ) seeing the effects of people choosing Not to be vaccinated -
ICUs across the country are full of covid patients who are unvaccinated.

( the vaccination has been available to anyone over the age of 18(years) since June. and more recently, to anyone over the age of 12(years) )

Please see Multi-'s post above, about the shifting arguments ( - for the sake of argument. )


thanks for (listening. )

[jono]

I just learned a couple of little kids I know are starting yet another go with this. Second round for one and third for another. Spoiler: it looks like positive tests don't guarantee safety against later variants.

At least one is doing worse so far than the first time. About 8 or 9 months since his first, I think, and of course now it's delta (we passed 90% delta here months ago) so maybe that's normal. He's been to a funeral once and he's been extra scared of COVID ever since. Now especially, of course.

He was fine with a mask all last year, but no masks in schools for his friends now because covidiots are in charge. This should not be landing on 8 year olds. The sum of all the rage shouldn't probably land on a couple of collaborator maggots, either, but it's hard to feel much empathy about it. Every minute these worm brains spend reinforcing each other's stupidity prolongs this and helps the quisling assholes deny basic precautions for children with no other options. If only violence would help, I'd happily enlist.

[Salvelinusconfluentus]

A friends son came home from school upset that he's lost friends because he wears a mask and the other kids don't because he goes to school in drump country

[XXX-er]

so now I need to honor my own request -


how many times have Multi- and LSL stated(,)

immunity is not about antibodies, but about T-cells and B-cells; but

still he claims we need antibody tests...


no. we don't - Because we have a tested Vaccination - that has significantly less Risk than the risks of infection.

again, the best tool we have To immunity is Vaccination. And the best tool we have to control the spread of the virus is Vaccination. ( I will leave the statistics to others )


( for what it's worth, My 'hive mind' is based on years of university education and forty years of work in public health.
( My concern is no longer for me, but for the risk to my elderly neighbors and my elderly friends ) )


good luck. tj


finally. we are currently ( September 2021 ) seeing the effects of people choosing Not to be vaccinated -
ICUs across the country are full of covid patients who are unvaccinated.

( the vaccination has been available to anyone over the age of 18(years) since June. and more recently, to anyone over the age of 12(years) )

Please see Multi-'s post above, about the shifting arguments ( - for the sake of argument. )


thanks for (listening. )

yeah this^^

the troll fest seems to be about how spiked proteins can dance on the head of a pin

while all you really need to do is get a vax

[Garbowski]

A month away from vaccination and my kid wakes up with a fever, sinus congestion, and can't taste anything. Got the Abbot antigen test and it was negative, have to wait a few days for PCR.

[jono]

A friends son came home from school upset that he's lost friends because he wears a mask and the other kids don't because he goes to school in drump country

Exactly why it shouldn't fall on them to make that "choice." Last year all the adults were pestering this little guy regularly for any sign of trauma from mask-wearing and basically trying to feed him their phobias. He just shrugged and stared at them, like he had no idea why they were so concerned. No drama at all. Eventually caught it from a big sleepover, but the masks did their job at school. Now we have a variant that's hitting kids for real and apparently last year's demonstrated effectiveness is just proof there's no cause for concern.

Good luck to your son, Garbowski. I hope he's feeling better soon!

[Buster Highmen]

Mods: is it possible to tune the thread order inversely based on frequency of response?

These threads that become incredibly negative also have very high response frequency, where frequency is posts per time unit.

Currently threads are sorted based on most recently used.

So unfortunately, these frenzy threads rise to the top.

It would be nice if the sorting algorithm could negatively weight the threads based on their response frequency so that the frenzy threads would sink or even go to a back page.

Or time people out (including me especially) from a given thread if their response frequency gets above some threshold. Kick them back to the root and move the thread,

This thread has a lot of interesting information, but it's getting saturated with bad faith actors, including trolls. Maybe if the thread were a little harder to find, the frenzy would die down, in part because the bad actors wouldn't be at the top of the page view, getting the reaction they desire.

I do keep looking for data that supports the claim that natural immunity is better than vax induced immunity. Aside from 2 preprints, one of which (the Israeli preprint) has had a number of criticisms, I can't find any, but I can find 5 or so that conclude this isn't the case.

But we never move on and instead keep going swirling down the bowl. Maybe this is a dumb idea or not possible, but given that WeGR can't seem to conduct ourselves in more progressive manner, maybe some other tweak to the thread sorting would rectify the frenzy, trollishness and incessant repetition of misinformation.

Trolls (RIP Mr. Poundkey) used to be funny, clever, creative and odd. Now they're just thudsome.

[old goat]

My worst fear right now is that it won't snow this winter and this will go on forever. Not the pandemic. This thread.

[riser4]

Mods: is it possible to tune the thread order inversely based on frequency of response?

These threads that become incredibly negative also have very high response frequency, where frequency is posts per time unit.

Currently threads are sorted based on most recently used.

So unfortunately, these frenzy threads rise to the top.

It would be nice if the sorting algorithm could negatively weight the threads based on their response frequency so that the frenzy threads would sink or even go to a back page.

Or time people out (including me especially) from a given thread if their response frequency gets above some threshold. Kick them back to the root and move the thread,

This thread has a lot of interesting information, but it's getting saturated with bad faith actors, including trolls. Maybe if the thread were a little harder to find, the frenzy would die down, in part because the bad actors wouldn't be at the top of the page view, getting the reaction they desire.

I do keep looking for data that supports the claim that natural immunity is better than vax induced immunity. Aside from 2 preprints, one of which (the Israeli preprint) has had a number of criticisms, I can't find any, but I can find 5 or so that conclude this isn't the case.

But we never move on and instead keep going swirling down the bowl. Maybe this is a dumb idea or not possible, but given that WeGR can't seem to conduct ourselves in more progressive manner, maybe some other tweak to the thread sorting would rectify the frenzy, trollishness and incessant repetition of misinformation.

Trolls (RIP Mr. Poundkey) used to be funny, clever, creative and odd. Now they're just thudsome.

Not sure the box fan could handle that.

[paulster2626]

There are much easier ways to keep your MS Teams checkmark green during a slow day that allows you to complete household chores or go for a walk.

Yo what are these easier ways?

[Skidog]

So the CDC advisory panel, the one that usually follows the "science" advised against boosters for under 65. Stating not enough DATA.

Walensky the director overruled their recommendations and authorized boosters for "occupational and institutional settings"

How's that science and not political?

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[SumJongGuy]

Not to mention the common denominator in the ICUs is unvaccinated.. not never infected. There are plenty of people there sucking on vents and dying who had COVID round one but Delta took them out without the vaccine..

[Adolf Allerbush]

So the CDC advisory panel, the one that usually follows the "science" advised against vaccines for under 65.]

Where are you getting this? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...M:gen:PTN:FY21

They don't say that. They said no booster for under 65. Big difference.

[frorider]

“I am surprised that Dr. Walensky overturned one of the four A.C.I.P. votes today, and I believe others will be as well,” said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, an infectious disease expert at Stanford and the American Academy of Pediatrics liaison to the committee.

But the vote on boosters for occupational risk “was close,” Dr. Maldonado said, and agreed with Dr. Walensky’s decision.

All reports so far say she sat in on all the ACIP discussions and understood why the votes were so close. It appears aligning with the previously announced FDA position was part of her objective. Not a big scandal but hey Fox will do what they can.

I assume skidog was thinking ‘booster’ when he typed ‘vaccine’?

[Skidog]

Where are you getting this? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...M:gen:PTN:FY21

They don't say that. They said no booster for under 65. Big difference.

You're wrong. If you are a "front line worker" under 65 your are asked to get booster despite the CDC advisory panel voting AGAINST that 16 to 2. Because there isn't enough DATA. You know SCIENCE? Guess Walensky knows better?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...ector.amp.html

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[Skidog]

All reports so far say she sat in on all the ACIP discussions and understood why the votes were so close. It appears aligning with the previously announced FDA position was part of her objective. Not a big scandal but hey Fox will do what they can.

I assume skidog was thinking ‘booster’ when he typed ‘vaccine’?

Lol yeah she explained why she went against 16 of her advisors, but it's a nothing burger.she follows the science man...even though the panel said the "science" wasn't there.

But yeah it has nothing to do with Joe's "get jabbed" campaign.

Love how y'all shift things round, blame "fox news" (this story is on all major networks), claim y'all follow science, but when science isn't there it's ok the make an opinion based decision to suit your objective.

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[Skidog]

Sorry she only disagreed with 9 of her advisors...

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[old_newguy]

Why are you not addressing the FDA's decision to authorize the use of the vaccine booster for 65+ and other at risk workers? It appears the decision is at odds with the CDC panel, but supported by the FDA. It's clear there isn't support for booster shots for the general population at FDA or CDC.

Politics certainly played a small part in the decision, but it's not like they are out offering something that the FDA didn't authorize or recommend.

Edit - Note that the CDC recommendation is that at risk groups like healthcare workers “may” receive a vaccination while for other groups it is “should”. They are not asking anyone in that category to get the shot, they are saying you may get it if you choose.

So I guess it's back to you to explain how an FDA panel looked at the data and made a decision to authorize and recommend "against the science".

I’ll post the link to the actual announcement:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html