To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[The AD]

Oh why is it disingenuous? Because there is some actual immunity from future infection if you previously survived covid? Hmmm. Ever wonder if a lot of people think that means they don't need a vax?

Well, they could read (for example) what Mofro quoted a few posts up and it would answer the question about why they should still get vaxxed, or is that too much to ask?

"Studies show that the vaccine gives a very good booster response if you've had COVID-19 before," says Dr. Rupp.

By the way, have you found where anyone here said you can't get any immunity from having Covid yet? We're still waiting for that evidence.

[Skidog]

It is disingenuous because you wrote "Thought there wasnt any protection from covid with prior infection? Weird..." and nobody is saying there is no protection from prior infection.

People were discussing this back in spring 2020, long before you adopted it as your personal talking point. There's also been an ongoing discussion about mild vs convalescent protection from prior infection. And back in Jan/Feb of this year there was a discussion about how single dose folks "with pre-existing immunity" develop the highest number of antibodies.

Plenty of people here 100% saying that. Saying no matter what get a vax, but see that's the choice. I haven't seen any stats on breakthroughs with prior covid, only that "all those in hospitals are non vaxxed". How many are prior infections that weren't vaxxed?

You should be thinking about being disingenuous about the fact that "vax is the only way" isn't the mantra here.

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[jono]

Some of the issues with the favorite study of the month (scroll down to original reply):

https://disqus.com/by/henrivanwerkhoven/comments/

[Adolf Allerbush]

All I need to know about that study..

It also hasn't been peer reviewed. Taking it as fact at this moment is not appropriate.

Some of the issues with the favorite study of the month (scroll down to original reply):

https://disqus.com/by/henrivanwerkhoven/comments/

More statistics for MF, skidog, MTUhockey and others to misunderstand.

[Buster Highmen]

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...rotection.html

[CarlMega]

Plenty of people here 100% saying that.

Find those quotes. BS.

[Mustonen]

Hiring for a hard to fill senior role, and recruited somebody I thought would be a good fit. Turns out the interest is mutual! Huzzah!

I was really warming to the potential match, until I get a question from her today about the upcoming vaccine mandate and whether we would require the vaccine for staff if/when OSHA says we have to. Turns out that’s a deal breaker.

Sigh.

[mtuhockey33]

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...rotection.html

so you’re going to discredit my source but use one that is literally only linked to Kentucky? Seriously…?

wow you guys are rich. Keep up that hive mind though.

edit: I can’t even begin to list all the fuck ups with this “study” but I’m sure everyone on here will take this as the truth because it fits their narrative

[Skidog]

mtu and you repeatedly claim that nat immunity "antibodies work as well/if not better than those with the vaccine".

The linked article refutes this hands down.

I guess this is all just trolling on your part and the attacks are appropriate.

I never said that. Ever...mtu? Possibly..prior infection does work, it's pretty undetermined how effective it is or not, could be a little worse, near same, same, or even slightly better. This means it's not zero. This means people feel they have a choice. That's why I would lean towards some sort of antibody test over PCR for proof.

Again if there are stats of prior infection hospitalizations somewhere I'd love to see. My guess is that data is lacking due to less tracing anymore.

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[Adolf Allerbush]

I never said that. Ever...mtu? Possibly..prior infection does work, it's pretty undetermined how effective it is or not, could be a little worse, near same, same, or even slightly better. This means it's not zero. This means people feel they have a choice. That's why I would lean towards some sort of antibody test over PCR for proof.

Again if there are stats of prior infection hospitalizations somewhere I'd love to see. My guess is that data is lacking due to less tracing anymore.

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What happens if your antibodies have waned?

[bennymac]

It is disingenuous because you wrote "Thought there wasnt any protection from covid with prior infection? Weird..." and nobody is saying there is no protection from prior infection.

This.

But go ahead skidog - you said people on here were posting that “prior infection gives no protection” - time to put up those posts or remain in your rightful place on top of the thrown as today’s most disingenuous poster.

I’m confident you will move the goalpost from “no protection” to something more vague to avoid having to fess up to your own bullshit.

[mtuhockey33]

Hiring for a hard to fill senior role, and recruited somebody I thought would be a good fit. Turns out the interest is mutual! Huzzah!

I was really warming to the potential match, until I get a question from her today about the upcoming vaccine mandate and whether we would require the vaccine for staff if/when OSHA says we have to. Turns out that’s a deal breaker.

Sigh.

Imagine determining someone’s self worth over them not wanting to comply to a flu vaccine mandate… give it a year or two and everyone here will be lining up for their flu… I mean Covid booster. Said it from the beginning. It’s amazing though that y’all are so engrained in your own ego that a simple decision like this instantly turns you off on people.

[riser4]

I'm down. Except we should let Canada have Michigan, and we'll take Alberta off their hands. Win-win?

You don't get the tar sands. You'd pump oil out if it.

[The AD]

I haven't seen any stats on breakthroughs with prior covid, only that "all those in hospitals are non vaxxed". How many are prior infections that weren't vaxxed?

Hold on, wouldn't that make your case worse? You're telling me there are all those unvaxxed people in the hospital, and some of them even have had Covid before? My God, where's that natural immunity that's so incredible!!

P.S. and, yes, I get your point that we don't know whether all those unvaxxed people in the hospital have had Covid previously or not. However, we do know that shots produce an immune response in those who have already had Covid, so why not vax them too? It sure seems a lot easier than trying to find out who needs the shot and who doesn't.

[jono]

Plenty of people here 100% saying that. Saying no matter what get a vax, but see that's the choice. I haven't seen any stats on breakthroughs with prior covid, only that "all those in hospitals are non vaxxed". How many are prior infections that weren't vaxxed?

You should be thinking about being disingenuous about the fact that "vax is the only way" isn't the mantra here.

There has been data posted on re-infections from studies going back to last summer. Lots of them pointed to something in the neighborhood of 80% protective prior to delta. You arguing that it got better since delta? Mofro has posted several times with various evidence that the variability of natural immunity is huge compared to vaccination, meaning that there is a significant risk of very inferior immunity from prior infection alone. OTOH, one shot of mRNA and that's corrected, according to multiple sources. You guys want to head for the statehouse with "Infection+1 is Enough" banners I'm sure we'll all support you. At least until we can turn your pics into funny memes. Please wear a GoPro.

[mtuhockey33]

What happens if your antibodies have waned?

I said it before and I’ll say it again for the idiots on here that can’t read or have little reading comprehension.

we don’t need vaccine mandates. We need antibody mandates. It doesn’t matter how you get the antibodies - you’re going to be fine. Even with the vaccine, you could have less antibodies than I do with a previous infection. Your antibodies could wane quicker than natural immunity due to multiple reasons or factors. The vice versa is also true.

the fact your side can’t differentiate between antibodies and no vaccine shows how base level and brain dead your side of the argument is.

[MultiVerse]

That's why I would lean towards some sort of antibody test over PCR for proof.

we don’t need vaccine mandates. We need antibody mandates. It doesn’t matter how you get the antibodies - you’re going to be fine. Even with the vaccine, you could have less antibodies than I do with a previous infection. Your antibodies could wane quicker than natural immunity due to multiple reasons or factors. The vice versa is also true.

Over-and-over people have explained to both of you that antibodies are not necessarily an indicator of immunity. Both of you have been constantly carping about antibodies waning...

The immune system is more than just antibodies. Antibody tests cannot prove that a person is immune to the virus, only that they've been exposed to the virus.

[bennymac]

Imagine determining someone’s self worth over them not wanting to comply to a flu vaccine mandate… give it a year or two and everyone here will be lining up for their flu… I mean Covid booster. Said it from the beginning. It’s amazing though that y’all are so engrained in your own ego that a simple decision like this instantly turns you off on people.

I can imagine it. Easily.

And you think you deserve some sort of credit for talking about boosters like you’re the only one who predicted that LOL. What’s your point? Sign me up. I get a tetanus booster every 5-10 years too.

But please tell us again about how you obtained a MD/PhD level of knowledge from reading half page patient handouts. I mean the one you used for your shingles vaccine knowledge (and got 100% wrong while calling those who were right “total fucking retards”) - at least that handout was published by Harvard so I can see why you are so proud. Ivy League educated!

[mtuhockey33]

Over-and-over people have explained to you that antibody tests not necessarily an indicator of immunity. You yourself have been constantly carping about antibodies waning...

so if the vaccine antibodies wane, and natural immunity wane but we don’t know how long that takes; how can you enforce a vaccine mandate for something that you don’t know the effective length of?

or are we going to have to keep our Covid vaccine cards on us every year from now until the end of time? Seriously…?

[mtuhockey33]

I can imagine it. Easily.

And you think you deserve some sort of credit for talking about boosters like you’re the only one who predicted that LOL. What’s your point? Sign me up. I get a tetanus booster every 5-10 years too.

But please tell us again about how you obtained a MD/PhD level of knowledge from reading half page patient handouts. I mean the one you used for your shingles vaccine knowledge (and got 100% wrong while calling those who were right “total fucking retards”) - at least that handout was published by Harvard so I can see why you are so proud. Ivy League educated!

just because the information was off doesn’t mean that your mentally retarded and cannot make a reasonable argument against anything I’ve said. I’m sorry you lick paint for fun… keep wearing that helmet little buddy.

[Buster Highmen]

so you’re going to discredit my source but use one that is literally only linked to Kentucky? Seriously…?

wow you guys are rich. Keep up that hive mind though.

edit: I can’t even begin to list all the fuck ups with this “study” but I’m sure everyone on here will take this as the truth because it fits their narrative

Look, I've read the original Israeli claim and thought about it for a while.

Then I read analyses of the study and those citations that find the study is bogus.

Plus there's a variety of linked papers that contradict the Israeli findings in the unreviewed preprint.

IF the claim were validated by a number of papers or studies, THEN I'd give it credit. But there's only 1.

Plus a number of other sources have developed results to the contrary, as linked.

Plus, mofro261 is a PhD who specializes in this stuff.

I don't need to make the personal attacks. The failure to survey the various claims is lacking, so I think the claims that nat immun is better than vax immun is incorrect.

That's how Science works.

[TWINS]

Should I get my annual flu shot first or my booster?

I got my booster, my flu and a phemonia shot yesterday.
2 in one arm, the booster in the other arm.
Felt like a walkoff home run yesterday 💪

[Buster Highmen]

I said it before and I’ll say it again for the idiots on here that can’t read or have little reading comprehension.

we don’t need vaccine mandates. We need antibody mandates. It doesn’t matter how you get the antibodies - you’re going to be fine. Even with the vaccine, you could have less antibodies than I do with a previous infection. Your antibodies could wane quicker than natural immunity due to multiple reasons or factors. The vice versa is also true.

the fact your side can’t differentiate between antibodies and no vaccine shows how base level and brain dead your side of the argument is.

You just have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just trolling. That deserves all the abuse generated.

[CarlMega]

we don’t need vaccine mandates. We need antibody mandates..

You think this is workable over vaccine mandates? Please describe your detailed plan to implement antibody mandates. Also, cite any past successful implementation of such a plan.

[The AD]

so if the vaccine antibodies wane, and natural immunity wane but we don’t know how long that takes; how can you enforce a vaccine mandate for something that you don’t know the effective length of?

Is there some rule that a mandate needs an expiration date? You keep the mandate in place for as long as it's necessary.