To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[The AD]

Fair point, but it's not just one NBC poll. The WashingtonPost and WSJ articles pull in additional data sources such as the Kaiser Family Foundation and Pew Research. There are also Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI)/Interfaith Youth Core (IFYC) polls and Axios-Ipsos polls showing Republicans and those with a high school education or less remain most resistant to the vaccine.

Furthermore, this whole argument seems like a waste of time. We know there's a large group of right leaning individuals who are vaccine-hesitant. Does it really matter if there are other groups who are, too? Yes, those other groups should also get the vaccine. Not sure we need to argue about who the worst offenders are. It's like we're engaged in a tallest dwarf competition.

[MultiVerse]

I'd call the influenza wards a century ago supportive care. Keeping people fed, hydrated, and clean was critical. Salvageable patients were dying for lack of basic nursing care. IV therapy was still in its infancy. Oxygen therapy had come to be more common through a combination of Haldane's "The therapeutic administration of oxygen" in early 1917 and the application for it to treat pulmonary and blister agent casualties (gas warfare), but it was very limited versus today.

Today salvageable patients, COVID and non-COVID, are suffering worse outcomes or dying because of subpar care, delayed care, unavailability of standard of care, all because the system is beyond its capacity.

Yeah, I didn't mean hospice care in the sense death was a forgone conclusion. Instead, a century ago, even though they tried lots of things, other than making the patient comfortable, fed, and hydrated they really didn't have any scientifically proven treatments. Oxygen therapy was so experimental they also tried injecting it directly into the body under the skin.

[Deebased]

Fair point, but it's not just one NBC poll. The WashingtonPost and WSJ articles pull in additional data sources such as the Kaiser Family Foundation and Pew Research. There are also Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI)/Interfaith Youth Core (IFYC) polls and Axios-Ipsos polls showing Republicans and those with a high school education or less remain most resistant to the vaccine.

Polls are a better representation of the efficacy of media brainwashing

[XXX-er]

for those who don't wana vax and give big pharma any money

they make WAY more$ from all those drugs the hospitol gives you while yer on the ventilator

[MultiVerse]

Don't remember where i saw this, but i believe it was reputable.

Vaccination rates, from high to low

Asian
White
Hispanic
Black

Your source might be outdated. White Republicans continue to dominate the "definitely not" getting vaccinated group. While Blacks and Hispanics dominate the "wait and see" group. The "wait and see" group was once much larger but has been steadily shrinking in response to the Delta wave while "definitely not" is holding firm.

[Deebased]

Dear God. Just try, its not that difficult. Its a link in the article. When you can't even find a link highlighted in the article, your level of credibility should be what?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rawal-n1277368

The link was plain as day in the orginal NBC article, Where I bold/underlined below.

how hard was that to find?

"Well, our most recent NBC News poll sheds some light on those question, with the survey finding that 69 percent of all adults say they’ve already been vaccinated, versus 13 percent saying they won’t get vaccinated under any circumstance."

Impressively incompetent

Here's the actual link https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-22-21-release

[CarlMega]

Furthermore, this whole argument seems like a waste of time. Does it really matter if there are other groups who are, too?

Exactly. It's a children's argument. "But Tommy did it too!". We don't need to focus solely on the group that is most hesitant by #s or %. We can address it across the board. However, the group that is spreading the most vaccine-hesitancy disinformation - controlling that narrative? Well, I think tackling that directly pays dividends - stop the spread so to speak. And that group is clearly right-wing pundits and partisans.

[ill-advised strategy]

If it turned out that in a few more years if this we ended up totally split and sorted into locations and populations and political systems where public health is thoughtfully handled and others where it’s a Mexico-style Covidtown™ free-for-all, which really seems possible, a kind of civil coldwar of migrations in both directions, what would the vaxxed places really lose in that process? Nutters who can’t figure this thing out? I dunno man, but I guess I’ve crossed some kind of mental barrier where I’d rather we just formally break up with these people and let them do it their own way.

[seano732]

If it turned out that in a few more years if this we ended up totally split and sorted into locations and populations and political systems where public health is thoughtfully handled and others where it’s a Mexico-style Covidtown™ free-for-all, which really seems possible, a kind of civil coldwar of migrations in both directions, what would the vaxxed places really lose in that process?

Mouth harps and banjos?

[ill-advised strategy]

Exactly. It's a children's argument. "But Tommy did it too!".

To be fair, that would be the best way to tell your wife why you got a blowjob from Pamela Anderson.

[Mofro261]

"very good people on both sides"

[Deebased]

Mouth harps and banjos?

Ability to move goods? More stratification between haves/have-nots? more racism? Free speech?

[riser4]

If it turned out that in a few more years if this we ended up totally split and sorted into locations and populations and political systems where public health is thoughtfully handled and others where it’s a Mexico-style Covidtown™ free-for-all, which really seems possible, a kind of civil coldwar of migrations in both directions, what would the vaxxed places really lose in that process? Nutters who can’t figure this thing out? I dunno man, but I guess I’ve crossed some kind of mental barrier where I’d rather we just formally break up with these people and let them do it their own way.

Except the nutters are going to want a portion of the military and especially the nuclear stockpile. Which is terrifying.

[CarlMega]

Nutters who can’t figure this thing out? I dunno man, but I guess I’ve crossed some kind of mental barrier where I’d rather we just formally break up with these people and let them do it their own way.

COVID has become a proxy war where science and rational thought is under attack. Hostility to facts, basic observable reality, science, technology, governance and process. We will obviously survive COVID as a species; the battle and stakes are for a functional American society. If we abandon the scientific method and a governing framework to deal with a crisis - what replaces it? Political pandering, superstition and vulnerability to disinformation? If so, we deserve to lose our position on the world stage - if we haven't already.

[dunfree]

If it turned out that in a few more years if this we ended up totally split and sorted into locations and populations and political systems where public health is thoughtfully handled and others where it’s a Mexico-style Covidtown™ free-for-all, which really seems possible, a kind of civil coldwar of migrations in both directions, what would the vaxxed places really lose in that process? Nutters who can’t figure this thing out? I dunno man, but I guess I’ve crossed some kind of mental barrier where I’d rather we just formally break up with these people and let them do it their own way.

we could see a return of lots of shitty childhood diseases because the anti-covid nutters are now going after all vaccines.

[skaredshtles]

Dear God. Just try, its not that difficult. Its a link in the article. When you can't even find a link highlighted in the article, your level of credibility should be what?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rawal-n1277368

The link was plain as day in the orginal NBC article, Where I bold/underlined below.

how hard was that to find?

"Well, our most recent NBC News poll sheds some light on those question, with the survey finding that 69 percent of all adults say they’ve already been vaccinated, versus 13 percent saying they won’t get vaccinated under any circumstance."

mY BrOwSeR DiSaBlEs sUsPiCiOuS LiNkS!!

[skaredshtles]

COVID has become a proxy war where science and rational thought is under attack. Hostility to facts, basic observable reality, science, technology, governance and process. We will obviously survive COVID as a species; the battle and stakes are for a functional American society. If we abandon the scientific method and a governing framework to deal with a crisis - what replaces it? Political pandering, superstition and vulnerability to disinformation? If so, we deserve to lose our position on the world stage - if we haven't already.

We already have.

[skaredshtles]

we could see a return of lots of shitty childhood diseases because the anti-covid nutters are now going after all vaccines.

I, for one, salute the nutters!

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I don't think it means six months is some magic number. The Red Cross probably just drew a line in the sand.

That, and they don’t use convalescent plasma anymore. Maybe there’s some hospital somewhere. They don’t take donations of convalescent plasma anywhere, they have more than they would ever use.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ah. So your list is a copy/paste of THIS particular link of yours. Which it states is based on their "NBC poll" which fails to provide a link or ANY data behind that list. No numbers of people polled. No margin of error. How the poll was conducted. NOTHING.

So, yeah. That list isn't exactly scientific data, CDC stats, or even remotely up to Pew standards. Whether or not the results are true (or not true), the article displays some shitty journalistic standards either way. No wonder your first post about it was so vague and didn't provide a source to begin with. Care to try again with some real data this time?

Are you sure you would recognize data if it was presented to you?


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[MontuckyFried]

Dear God. Just try, its not that difficult. Its a link in the article. When you can't even find a link highlighted in the article, your level of credibility should be what?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...rawal-n1277368

The link was plain as day in the orginal NBC article, Where I bold/underlined below.

how hard was that to find?

"Well, our most recent NBC News poll sheds some light on those question, with the survey finding that 69 percent of all adults say they’ve already been vaccinated, versus 13 percent saying they won’t get vaccinated under any circumstance."

Wow. Are you REALLY that stupid? Yes, the NBC article we're talking about had a link to another page TALKING about a study regarding Biden's job ratings decline. Now at the bottom of THAT is the link to the very study you keep thinking proves the points of the first (it does not). Seriously. Here is the link to the very study in question: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-22-21-release
There is NOTHING in there that leads to the conclusions of the first article we're talking about. At best, you can say some people polled xyz %, but it doesn't parse out the respondents at all like the conclusions they're saying they're coming to.

It is one of the most egregious examples of extrapolating a preconceived conclusion from polling data. Read through the actual poll for yourself and you'll see what I'm saying.

[MontuckyFried]

mY BrOwSeR DiSaBlEs sUsPiCiOuS LiNkS!!

Wrong. I looked at the link. It just doesn't remotely prove what the primary article listed as supposed stats. Go down the chain of links to the study. See if you can find how X somehow becomes Y and magically becomes Z. It's as bad as a flat earther conspiracy theorists "logic."

NBC and Kinnikinnick be like:

[jono]

Wow. Are you REALLY that stupid? Yes, the NBC article we're talking about had a link to another page TALKING about a study regarding Biden's job ratings decline. Now at the bottom of THAT is the link to the very study you keep thinking proves the points of the first (it does not). Seriously. Here is the link to the very study in question: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-22-21-release
There is NOTHING in there that leads to the conclusions of the first article we're talking about. At best, you can say some people polled xyz %, but it doesn't parse out the respondents at all like the conclusions they're saying they're coming to.

It is one of the most egregious examples of extrapolating a preconceived conclusion from polling data. Read through the actual poll for yourself and you'll see what I'm saying.

The poll reached about 130 black respondents. From that sample they got what they got. A legitimate argument might be that the sample size is weak or that there could be selection bias since you don't know. Arguing that you're right and the data is wrong because you think so is a perfect waste of time. Enjoy.

[MontuckyFried]

Impressively incompetent

Here's the actual link https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-22-21-release

Seriously. It's probably why these guys have been lackadaisical with their URLs until further pressed.

[Deebased]

Wow. Are you REALLY that stupid? Yes, the NBC article we're talking about had a link to another page TALKING about a study regarding Biden's job ratings decline. Now at the bottom of THAT is the link to the very study you keep thinking proves the points of the first (it does not). Seriously. Here is the link to the very study in question: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-22-21-release
There is NOTHING in there that leads to the conclusions of the first article we're talking about. At best, you can say some people polled xyz %, but it doesn't parse out the respondents at all like the conclusions they're saying they're coming to.

It is one of the most egregious examples of extrapolating a preconceived conclusion from polling data. Read through the actual poll for yourself and you'll see what I'm saying.

KKK and anyone who would promote that poll have already aligned themselves with the anti-science crowd.