To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Adolf Allerbush]

What's better in the long run? Because the Russian and Chinese vaccines are low quality, we're going to ramp up AZ, J&J, & mRNA vaccine production and vaccinate the world.

Blah, blah, blah, "assuming a finite supply".... why is there always a dangerous lack of focus among the "different point of view" crowd?

With the premise "well, if it's not perfect and 100% we shouldn't do anything."

[Casey E]

When?

Might be just a spit in the bucket, but Chile cut a deal with Sinovac for local/regional production, and now the Italian vaccine in phase 3 trials, ReiThera, too. 2022 production perhaps.

Could just be a lull between waves, but new cases are at a pandemic low, with 73% of total pop vaccinated, 70% with Sinovac. Time will tell.

[MultiVerse]

What is happening with Ruski and Chinese that makes them low quality?

I shouldn't have written low quality because that implies they're risky, what I meant instead is while they still achieve good results they don't work as well WRT efficacy compared with the AZ, J&J, & mRNA vaccines.

[Ted Striker]

It's like debating which brand of condoms is best. Sure some might break easier than others, but all are better protection than nothing.

[MontuckyFried]

With the premise "well, if it's not perfect and 100% we shouldn't do anything."

I know this might be too difficult of a concept for you due to your blind hatred of me, but nobody here is saying that. Take your grievances up with the WHO director who's asking the rich countries to share the love a little bit. I don't know what's best, but thought it was interesting topic worthy of discussion. Arstechnica thought it was worthy enough to post an article about. What's your beef with the topic? Am I saying do nothing? Is WHO? Is anybody here?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Everyone wants things to happen immediately, we’re a world without patience. It took decades for polio and smallpox vaccines to take endemic disease and make them no big deal. I totally agree that the third world needs vaccines but we’ve only had these vaccines in wide circulation for just a bit over nine months. I know it’s 2021 and we can probably get the Covid vaccines in the world’s arms more efficiently than we did in the past but over 5 billion doses administered in 9 months is actually quite remarkable.

I’m reasonably sure that there is a concerted effort to get the vaccines out into the hard to reach populations around the world. This latest outrage is just the current hot button issue for people to politicize and create and maintain division.


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[MultiVerse]

Surely these pharma companies are working on a vaccine 2.0 and not just continuing to rake in record profits....Right! Right?

1 out of every 500 American citizens has died of COVID. Not 1/500 infected. 1/500 people who live in the U.S.

Lots of people are struggling to grasp the truth about what's happening in America during the COVID pandemic. It's destroying populist narratives. Big pharma gave us vaccines, big tech made life bearable. It was the people and their elected representatives who threw it all away and failed.

[Ted Striker]

This latest outrage is just the current hot button issue for people to politicize and create and maintain division.

Yep, it's partisan no-win. If it's not "shame on _____ for not sharing with the less fortunate" it's "shame on _____ for putting others before our own people"

[MontuckyFried]

Yep, it's partisan no-win. If it's not "shame on _____ for not sharing with the less fortunate" it's "shame on _____ for putting others before our own people"

Hmm... Sort of a classic Kobayashi Maru situation if you will. Yeah, I can see that. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Somebody's gonna get mad no matter WHAT a country chooses to do.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I have a question for the mentally challenged posters on here that keep chiming in that a healthy lifestyle is the best protection against Covid. I agree that Americans in general should live healthier, but what about right now? You can shame the overweight and obese all you want but right now they’re not really going to reverse that condition in a timely manner to make a difference in regards to Covid. So the best protection for everyone is to get vaccinated, doesn’t matter if you’re healthy, obese, diabetic etc. The fact remains that vaccination is our our only and best way to return to “normal”.

In addition, why is everything in some people’s posts related to a sound bite or movie reference? Do they only relate to the world through headlines, movies and tv?


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[MultiVerse]

Even accepting the healthy lifestyle premise, Covid still presents a tremendous threat to those who are at higher risk through no fault of their own or are unable to receive a vaccine, & even to a few healthy vaccinated individuals who experience “breakthrough” cases. Vaccination dramatically reduces transmission.

[Ted Striker]

Hmm... Sort of a classic Kobayashi Maru situation if you will. Yeah, I can see that. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Somebody's gonna get mad no matter WHAT a country chooses to do.

Yeah, we live in an outrage culture. It generates a lot of clicks and views for the advertisers.

[Dantheman]

I have a question for the mentally challenged posters on here that keep chiming in that a healthy lifestyle is the best protection against Covid. I agree that Americans in general should live healthier, but what about right now? You can shame the overweight and obese all you want but right now they’re not really going to reverse that condition in a timely manner to make a difference in regards to Covid. So the best protection for everyone is to get vaccinated, doesn’t matter if you’re healthy, obese, diabetic etc. The fact remains that vaccination is our our only and best way to return to “normal”.

The only thing that might slow down, let alone reverse, obesity trends would be mandatory meth use.

[Skidog]

Even accepting the healthy lifestyle premise, Covid still presents a tremendous threat to those who are at higher risk through no fault of their own or are unable to receive a vaccine, & even to a few healthy vaccinated individuals who experience “breakthrough” cases. Vaccination dramatically reduces transmission.

Pretty sure there have been studies with Delta that viral loads are very similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Pretty sure there have been studies with Delta that viral loads are very similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed.

The viral load in vaccinated individuals drops off quickly when compared to the unvaccinated. Is that what you meant to post? Your post would lead people to believe that getting vaccinated is pointless. This is how misinformation spreads.


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[MultiVerse]

Yeah with Delta, a vaccinated person certainly transmits less than an unvaccinated person. While we don't know how often vaccinated people transmit Delta, we do know it's much less than the unvaccinated:

1. Viral load in vaccinated individuals falls quickly
2. Even at similar viral loads, culture samples show less viable virus in vaccinated individuals
3. Studies also show a reduction of asymptomatic infection with vaccines
4. Empirical evidence suggests vaccination reduces transmission from health care workers to members of their households

And as Mofro mentioned yesterday exposure and dose matters, so it's not just transmission potential. Vaccination minimizes symptoms restricting virus dissemination of Delta with symptomatic breakthroughs.

[paulster2626]

I know this might be too difficult of a concept for you due to your blind hatred of me, but nobody here is saying that. Take your grievances up with the WHO director who's asking the rich countries to share the love a little bit. I don't know what's best, but thought it was interesting topic worthy of discussion. Arstechnica thought it was worthy enough to post an article about. What's your beef with the topic? Am I saying do nothing? Is WHO? Is anybody here?

I may be stupid, maybe not, but I am still not quite sure what your point is, actually.

You seem to be pro-vaccine, pro-healthy living, and pro wearing a mask when it makes sense to do so. Aside from the contrary random thoughts you post (with notes of a mild, political flavour) that get everyone riled up I think you're actually on the same side as "us," believe it or not.

Are you vaccinated?

[bennymac]

Pretty sure there have been studies with Delta that viral loads are very similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed.

^ these kinds of posts suck and generate confusion and distrust (I’m sure you’re response will be “what I posted is true!” thereby pretending to miss the point)

Yeah with Delta, a vaccinated person certainly transmits less than an unvaccinated person. While we don't how often vaccinated people transmit Delta, we do know it's much less than the unvaccinated:

1. Viral load in vaccinated individuals falls quickly
2. Even at similar viral loads, culture samples show less viable virus in vaccinated individuals
3. Studies also show a reduction of asymptomatic infection with vaccines
4. Empirical evidence suggests vaccination reduces transmission from health care workers to members of their households

^ these kinds of posts are helpful.

Thank god for the patience of our expert posters in here who every day face off against “it’s just the flu / we should do Sweden etc” contrarians.

[Ted Striker]

"We should do Sweden" but as of yesterday, they're not doing us.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I may be stupid, maybe not, but I am still not quite sure what your point is, actually.

You seem to be pro-vaccine, pro-healthy living, and pro wearing a mask when it makes sense to do so. Aside from the contrary random thoughts you post (with notes of a mild, political flavour) that get everyone riled up I think you're actually on the same side as "us," believe it or not.

Are you vaccinated?

He does seem to be for those things....at least partially...then caveats his support of them with "better to be healthy than get vaxxed" type of comments. It riles people up because it only serves to muddy the waters...and that is what his "point" is. Just to inject doubt about vaccines and misinformation into this discussion. It's tiresome.

"We should do Sweden" but as of yesterday, they're not doing us.

Montuckey and Deeb March 2020 "Sweden is doing it right!"

Sweden Summer 2020 "We fucked up"

[neufox47]

I had two employees who had previous infections, but no vaccination, test positive recently. Minimal symptoms.


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[The AD]

From a Seattle Times article:

An Alaska Airlines flight heading from Seattle to Anchorage was diverted after a passenger began threatening staff and people near them and their group refused to follow instructions for mask use, officials said.

Multiple people traveling in the same group were earlier removed from Saturday’s flight before takeoff in Seattle for what Alaska Airlines described in a statement as “disruptive behavior.” Others in that party were allowed to stay on the flight, but once the plane was in the air, “at least one passenger who was part of the remaining group began to threaten our crew members and nearby guests,” Alaska Airlines said.

Alaska State Troopers said in an online report that the five passengers “were not following flight attendant instructions related to mask use and were using foul language during the flight.”

Troopers said there was no physical altercation.

The flight was diverted to Juneau and the five passengers were removed from the plane by troopers and Juneau police officers. The flight took off about an hour later from Juneau International Airport, according to flight-tracking data.

On a positive note, they sure did own the libs...

[bennymac]

It’s satisfying when these dipshits get dropped off far from their intended destination. Enjoy being on the no-fly list and sticking to ferry boats or long car rides to get outta Alaska.

[Skidog]

^ these kinds of posts suck and generate confusion and distrust (I’m sure you’re response will be “what I posted is true!” thereby pretending to miss the point)



^ these kinds of posts are helpful.

Thank god for the patience of our expert posters in here who every day face off against “it’s just the flu / we should do Sweden etc” contrarians.

Poorly worded and point taken. Was not meant to spread any type of "disinformation".

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[twat]

Uhhh, what part or parts of them is waxed, exactly, in this hypothetical? This impacts the answer that a gentleman -under- a certain age is gonna be able to provide.

What parts do u want them to be antiwaxx? Upperlib - armpits - legs