Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[old goat]

It’s a control issue.

It’s like buying a new car and not consulting with your wife first.


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It's a principle issue. Everything management does to us is subject to collective bargaining. Everything. As someone who supports unions and the union movement I get it and generally agree with it.. But like a lot of things that are being done by fiat these days I think the imposition of mask mandates on union employees without bargaining is justified by a true emergency.

[Percy Rideout]

Unlike other states, Washington's mandate does not provide a testing alternative. You don't get vaxed, you are fired. One of the complaints the state employees union had was what happens when 20% of employees abruptly quit or are fired? What about the remaining employees who all of the sudden are forced to pick up the slack? The union wasn't against the idea of the mandate, but they believe the state needs bargain with them before implementing the mandate to discuss all of these collateral issues.

Well, at least one of the groups at the bargaining table is thinking ahead and trying to avoid potential pitfalls.

[AK47bp]

Yeah no. Everyone in the US has access to the expert recommendation from the FDA, the CDC and their personal doctor if they have one. Similarly, everyone has access to television in which those messages are propagated assuming you don't have FOX or OAN on lock. If someone doesn't want to listen to experts they can't claim they weren't consulted.

I’m talking about the union wanting to be involved in these decisions for their workers and throwing a fit they weren’t.



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[Tri-Ungulate]

Preprint being vetted by Science magazine re: large prospective study on efficacy of masks vs SARS CoV2 that establishes their utility.

Looking forward to reading the manuscript once it gets reviewed and accepted, but the methodology seems sound, at least per description, and the team is comprised of respected researchers.

A good prior study in Science was based more on quantitative modeling, and (not surprisingly) comes to the same conclusions.

What seems important about the WashPo report is that the study reflects real-world data in a prospective randomized and controlled study with what seems to be adequate numbers for meaningful statistical analysis.

[MontuckyFried]

Preprint being vetted by Science magazine re: large prospective study on efficacy of masks vs SARS CoV2 that establishes their utility.

Looking forward to reading the manuscript once it gets reviewed and accepted, but the methodology seems sound, at least per description, and the team is comprised of respected researchers.

Sounds interesting, but could you do a copy/paste of the article for those of us who can't get around the paywall? Even Google cache doesn't wanna work on this one. Thanks.

[Dantheman]

Some interesting data coming out about COVID and kidney disease: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covi...amage-disease/

[Tri-Ungulate]

Sounds interesting, but could you do a copy/paste of the article for those of us who can't get around the paywall? Even Google cache doesn't wanna work on this one. Thanks.

Okay, for you, Austin, mostly because Harry vouches for you but also because you post hilarious videos of white dudes pranking dumb Chinee restauranteurs with funny accents, here ya are:

Massive randomized study is proof that surgical masks limit coronavirus spread, authors say

By Adam Taylor and Ben Guarino
Today at 2:09 p.m. EDT

The authors of a study based on an enormous randomized research project in Bangladesh say their results offer the best evidence yet that widespread wearing of surgical masks can limit the spread of the coronavirus in communities.

The preprint paper, which tracked more than 340,000 adults across 600 villages in rural Bangladesh, is by far the largest randomized study on the effectiveness of masks at limiting the spread of coronavirus infections.


Its authors say this provides conclusive, real-world evidence for what laboratory work and other research already strongly suggest: mask-wearing can have a significant impact on limiting the spread of symptomatic covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

The researchers estimate that among a group of Bangladeshi adults in the study that were encouraged to wear masks, mask-wearing increased by 28.8 percent after the intervention. When tracked, this group saw a 9.3 percent reduction in symptomatic covid-19 seroprevalence, meaning the virus was confirmed by bloodwork, as well as a further 11.9 percent reduction in covid-19 symptoms.

The study’s authors — led by principal investigators Abaluck, Laura Kwong, Steve Luby, Ahmed Mushfiq Mobarak and Ashley Styczynski — a globe-spanning team that includes researchers from Yale, Stanford and the Bangladeshi nonprofit GreenVoice, emphasized that this did not mean masks were only 9.3 percent effective.


“I think a big error would be to read this study and to say, ‘Oh, masks can only prevent 10 percent of symptomatic infections,’ ” Abaluck said. The number would probably be several times higher if masking were universal, he said.


The team chose Bangladesh because co-author and Yale economist Mobarak was from the country and had worked there before, and because of increased options for funding.
The sheer scale of the project, which began in November and concluded in April 2021, is notable. About 178,000 Bangladeshi villagers were in an intervention group and encouraged to use masks. An additional 163,000 were in a control group, where no interventions were made.


The project assessed the levels of mask-wearing and physical distancing through direct observations from plain-clothed staff in the community at mosques, markets and other gathering places.

This study contains a trio of key observations, Ranney said: One, it offers even more evidence that masks work to shield the wearer and the community. Because the research team was only able to document cases in which people were symptomatic and were seropositive for the virus, Ranney agreed that results may be an underestimate.

“To me this is the minimum effect of mask-wearing in a community,” she said. “I would expect the real effect of masks is much higher, given the limitations of how they were able to measure covid in this study.”
Two, it indicates that better-quality masks offer superior protection. And three, the study shows how to motivate people in a community to wear masks, by making masks a social norm.


Gostin said the research also pushed back on the “pernicious” idea that masks were only for individual protection. “[Masking is] a population-based blanket that we have to get widespread adoption of,” he said

Not copy/pasting the entire article 'cuz that's infringement. You can always sign up for your free trial at the WaPo even though it's run by a bunch of libtards.

I have no doubt that the antimasker freedumbz movement is already working to FUD the aforementioned study, without having even seen it.

[PNWbrit]

Or he could open it in incognito/private mode.

Honestly though I think keeping him off the internet a better idea.

[old goat]

Idaho begins "rationing" care.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...covid-79872485
I glanced through the state's lengthy guidelines and there's less than the headline suggests.--basically institutionalizes what is already happening, treat people unlikely to survive with comfort care, give ICU beds to those who can best benefit. Delay elective procedures. No specific guideline--it's up to the triage physician. . And for those hoping--no denying care to the unvaccinated is not mentioned one way or the other.

[KQ]

Many maskless people at the grocery store today despite Govenor's mandate. Most looked like they were spoiling for a fight. Best to avoid eye contact and go about your shopping.

[MontuckyFried]

Not copy/pasting the entire article 'cuz that's infringement. You can always sign up for your free trial at the WaPo even though it's run by a bunch of libtards.

Don't be a bitch. Copy/paste the entire article. I'm not signing up for a WaPo account just to read it either. "Infringement." HA! What a copout.

And I wasn't trying to debunk it. I was genuinely interested as I haven't heard of any legit, actual real-world mass studies on masks since that 2015 study from Hanoi.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

Do you have a link to a peer-reviewed published study on which your article is based?

[Game Over]

Here is one be published just last week

https://aaqr.org/articles/aaqr-21-05-oa-0117

[Meadow Skipper]

Don't be a bitch….I'm not signing up for a WaPo account just to read it either. “Infringement." HA! What a copout.

It seems you’re 180 degrees mistaken about who’s being the bitch here.

[Salvelinusconfluentus]

Idaho begins "rationing" care.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...covid-79872485
I glanced through the state's lengthy guidelines and there's less than the headline suggests.--basically institutionalizes what is already happening, treat people unlikely to survive with comfort care, give ICU beds to those who can best benefit. Delay elective procedures. No specific guideline--it's up to the triage physician. . And for those hoping--no denying care to the unvaccinated is not mentioned one way or the other.

Almost like death panels. Is this Obama's fault?

[SumJongGuy]

Many maskless people at the grocery store today despite Govenor's mandate. Most looked like they were spoiling for a fight. Best to avoid eye contact and go about your shopping.

Why I'm in a KN95 for indoor public spaces even though I'm fully vaxed. Full N95 for air travel or rideshares. Protect yourself and let Darwin sort it all out.

[ill-advised strategy]

2 things I’m thankful to have in my rear view these days:
1) Nursing
2) Union officer in a local full of hillbillies

[ill-advised strategy]

Almost like death panels. Is this Obama's fault?

The hot takes on the antivax spectrum include a lot of mental gymnastics to blame vaccines and masks for full hospitals. So you better believe those people are blaming any politician not on their side.
As always, it’s an impenetrable mental fortress of circular reasoning based in nonsense…. and the question remains: how to dismantle it. The stories about people who have covid, in the hospital, and still don’t believe it.

My wife’s bff in southern Michigan is doing some kind of office work in the army. Super q-anon, militia kind of energy. She’s had TWO of these dunces in her unit DIE recently and they still aren’t changing their minds.

It’s not real.
Ok it’s real but what can you do?
Ok those don’t work.
Ok they work but you can’t make people do it
What about vitamins and ivermec mecc…blekk I’m in the hospital…annnnd dead.

[Harry]

Mom wanted to go to furniture store to shop for chairs. Her town is too small to have a store, but two towns away there is a mom & pop store that sells major brands. Mom has a great sense of style, and I had agreed to pay for the new chairs. Drove there, we both masked up, Mom needs a lot of help walking. (She claims a cane makes her look old, so I cut down a ski pole and put a rubber tip on the end, she claims it makes her look “adventurous”...). Anyway, with me on one arm and the ski pole in the other hand we entered the store masked. Owners were there (man & woman) and they recognized my Mom, woman extended her hand to shake mine, I did not extend mine, and I politely asked that they please both mask up. They went behind the counter and rummaged around, then announced they did not have any masks. I told them we were taking our business elsewhere, and escorted Mom back to the car. Mom thanked me profusely for standing my ground.

I was prepared to drop well in excess of $5,000 yesterday at their store, today I am shopping online.


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[mcski]

Your 5 stages are a better synopsis than the 7 floating around last week. Well done, sir

[Game Over]

Mom wanted to go to furniture store to shop for chairs. Her town is too small to have a store, but two towns away there is a mom & pop store that sells major brands. Mom has a great sense of style, and I had agreed to pay for the new chairs. Drove there, we both masked up, Mom needs a lot of help walking. (She claims a cane makes her look old, so I cut down a ski pole and put a rubber tip on the end, she claims it makes her look “adventurous”...). Anyway, with me on one arm and the ski pole in the other hand we entered the store masked. Owners were there (man & woman) and they recognized my Mom, woman extended her hand to shake mine, I did not extend mine, and I politely asked that they please both mask up. They went behind the counter and rummaged around, then announced they did not have any masks. I told them we were taking our business elsewhere, and escorted Mom back to the car. Mom thanked me profusely for standing my ground.

I was prepared to drop well in excess of $5,000 yesterday at their store, today I am shopping online.


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👍

[Tri-Ungulate]

Don't be a bitch. Copy/paste the entire article. I'm not signing up for a WaPo account just to read it either. "Infringement." HA! What a copout.

And I wasn't trying to debunk it. I was genuinely interested as I haven't heard of any legit, actual real-world mass studies on masks since that 2015 study from Hanoi.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

Do you have a link to a peer-reviewed published study on which your article is based?

Lulz, who's the whiny entitled little bitch here? ROTFL.

Anyway, if you'd actually read my post you'd realize the study is in the preprint stage, currently being, yes, peer-reviewed by the editors at Science, so you'll have to calm your impatient little head and await the final published manuscript with the rest of us, no use stamping your feet.

I didn't say you were trying to debunk the study, but others are definitely gonna try, and I suspect you'll be slurping up their critiques in your Facebook groups and InfoWars/OAN newsfeeds and regurgitating their (likely spurious) arguments in this forum.

And if you've actually read the BMJ article you cite, (which of course predates COVID19), what are your conclusions?

[mtuhockey33]

Mom wanted to go to furniture store to shop for chairs. Her town is too small to have a store, but two towns away there is a mom & pop store that sells major brands. Mom has a great sense of style, and I had agreed to pay for the new chairs. Drove there, we both masked up, Mom needs a lot of help walking. (She claims a cane makes her look old, so I cut down a ski pole and put a rubber tip on the end, she claims it makes her look “adventurous”...). Anyway, with me on one arm and the ski pole in the other hand we entered the store masked. Owners were there (man & woman) and they recognized my Mom, woman extended her hand to shake mine, I did not extend mine, and I politely asked that they please both mask up. They went behind the counter and rummaged around, then announced they did not have any masks. I told them we were taking our business elsewhere, and escorted Mom back to the car. Mom thanked me profusely for standing my ground.

I was prepared to drop well in excess of $5,000 yesterday at their store, today I am shopping online.


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woah, I’m glad you stood for your principles and showed that local business! Time to go spend your money on a large corporation and then bitch about why there aren’t any good local shops anymore… or is this shit for another thread?

[bennymac]

woah, I’m glad you stood for your principles and showed that local business! Time to go spend your money on a large corporation and then bitch about why there aren’t any good local shops anymore… or is this shit for another thread?

Hey - when will you be letting us know more about your “You are a fucking retard. You don’t get a shingles vaccine if you’ve had chickenpox before” statement?

Or is that shit for another thread?

[riser4]

woah, I’m glad you stood for your principles and showed that local business! Time to go spend your money on a large corporation and then bitch about why there aren’t any good local shops anymore… or is this shit for another thread?

Right. They get a pass just because they are a local business? Fuck that.

[Kinnikinnick]

woah, I’m glad you stood for your principles and showed that local business! Time to go spend your money on a large corporation and then bitch about why there aren’t any good local shops anymore… or is this shit for another thread?

But you see that’s the thing, there WASNT a good local shop.


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