To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Harry]

Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[toast2266]

I wish the feds would offer tax incentives to businesses that got their employees vaxxed.

All of my employees (4 of them) are vehemently anti vax. There is no reasoning with them, and really, I won't push the issue very hard because it's become so political. There's no business related reason for me to require them to get vaxxed (we don't interact with the public).

But if I could go to them and say that the business gets a tax break (I'm thinking ~$1000) for any employee that gets vaxxed, and I'd pass that along to them, it might work for a couple of them. In other words, it's another stimulus check that's paid through the business and only gets paid after proof of vaccination.

Doing that would:
- gain a little bit of GOP support because it's not mandatory; it's an incentive offered as a tax break.
- gain a little bit of GOP support because it's only offered through businesses, and therefore benefits "hard working Americans" and not "freeloading libs milking the unemployment system."
- for the above reasons, there's at least a chance that the right wing media would only partially shit on it.
- it would create a bit of peer pressure by doing it amongst a group of employees.

[yeahman]

Not a bad idea toast.

Or move the fuck out of Flathead County.

[toast2266]

Not a bad idea toast.

Or move the fuck out of Flathead County.

Ha! Yeah, there's that.

[::: :::]

[jono]

There is a business tax credit for giving them time off to be vaccinated. But this isn't a business problem, it's a people problem. The incentive should be direct to people and zero more to businesses: $10/day vaccinated in 2021. Retroactive so the first to get it get more. Publicize that while it's in debate so people know that's likely and don't wait until December.

That said, you should definitely give them each a day off with bonus pay up to the tax credit. That's like $500 or something.

[The AD]

NPR had an interview this morning with a pastor from Dallas who nearly died from COVID. He's recovering now and is advocating for everyone to get vaccinated. He claims he wasn't anti-vax, just figured if he did get COVID it wouldn't be serious, and of course this was a nearly fatal mistake.

This does give me some hope, though. There are certainly a fair number of strident antivaxxers, but there are probably lots of others who are like this guy--and they're probably surrounded by lots of unvaccinated people, so they just don't have the push to get the vaccine like those of us on the other side do. People like this guy are probably the ones who could move the needle. They're certainly not going to listen to those of us "on the other side."

[bobz]

They're everywhere, even in NYC...

- You're from Pennsylvania.

-- Yes, because we know it's coming to Pennsylvania.

- How important is it to think ahead to protect something before it gets out of control?

-- It's everything! It's everything, because once it's gone out of control, you don't reel it in.

- Right, and that's why it's imporant for everybody to get a vaccine, squash it, before it gets out of control.

-- That's why what?!? ...Oh my god, what side are you on? Are you nuts?

[toast2266]

There is a business tax credit for giving them time off to be vaccinated. But this isn't a business problem, it's a people problem. The incentive should be direct to people and zero more to businesses: $10/day vaccinated in 2021. Retroactive so the first to get it get more. Publicize that while it's in debate so people know that's likely and don't wait until December.

That said, you should definitely give them each a day off with bonus pay up to the tax credit. That's like $500 or something.

Yeah, to be clear, I don't think the business needs to get the tax credit - it should be passed on to the employees.

But per the right wing media, if money from the government goes directly to people, it's wasting money on socialist welfare checks. If the exact same money goes through businesses as a tax cut, it's a path to economic prosperity because the rising tide is lifting all the boats.

Just based on my knowledge of my employees, if the government offered them a direct $1000 tax cut for getting vaccinated, none of them would take it (for all kinds of reasons, none of which make sense). If the business offered them a $1000 bonus for getting vaccinated (which would be reimbursed to the business as a tax cut), I think a couple of them would probably take it.

[Tor-tour]

Yeah, to be clear, I don't think the business needs to get the tax credit - it should be passed on to the employees.

But per the right wing media, if money from the government goes directly to people, it's wasting money on socialist welfare checks. If the exact same money goes through businesses as a tax cut, it's a path to economic prosperity because the rising tide is lifting all the boats.


Just based on my knowledge of my employees, if the government offered them a direct $1000 tax cut for getting vaccinated, none of them would take it (for all kinds of reasons, none of which make sense). If the business offered them a $1000 bonus for getting vaccinated (which would be reimbursed to the business as a tax cut), I think a couple of them would probably take it.

But why should they be rewarded for doing the right thing? I'd like to see a punitive option. Aren't vaccinated? Pull $1000 from their check for public health system overhead, return it when they get vaccinated.

[Percy Rideout]

Unless we shut our borders and imposed super duper strict testing and quarantining policies, new strains that developed in the developing world would have made it into the US... and then spread here. With something this contagious, wouldnt we need world wise vaccination on a large scale to mitigate spread/mutation while also going about life in a semi-normal way?

That's correct. And our global vaccine rollout is anemic while first world countries citizens are about to get their 3rd booster shots, against the advice of the WHO.

[toast2266]

But why should they be rewarded for doing the right thing? I'd like to see a punitive option. Aren't vaccinated? Pull $1000 from their check for public health system overhead, return it when they get vaccinated.

As with most situations where you want to get someone to do something, you can use a stick or a carrot. Personally, I'm inclined to at least try using the carrot before resorting to the stick.

[rideit]

Can’t we just beat them into submission with a really heavy carrot?

[Mazderati]

As with most situations where you want to get someone to do something, you can use a stick or a carrot. Personally, I'm inclined to at least try using the carrot before resorting to the stick.

They're already using a stick on everyone around them. Is there any reason the vaccine can't be a requirement for employment?

[Mofro261]

That's correct. And our global vaccine rollout is anemic while first world countries citizens are about to get their 3rd booster shots, against the advice of the WHO.

Nice to see another convert for increased funding of Global Health! If you would like to contribute personally to the effort I can provide some links.

It's 5 billion doses administered worldwide at current BTW.

[toast2266]

They're already using a stick on everyone around them. Is there any reason the vaccine can't be a requirement for employment?

If I required vaccinations, I'm 99% sure everyone would quit. If the government required vaccinations, there'd realistically be large scale violent protests. Which could, of course, be quashed by bludgeoning the protestors with a giant carrot.

[DougW]

Can’t we just beat them into submission with a really heavy carrot?

had to laugh, but hasn't it passed the point of caring about the vac hesitant? Convincing one person at a time seems like a fools errand. The vac mandates and the passports in some areas ( BC just announced that can't enter non essential business without card, to ski this winter you will need the jab jab) are going to push it closer the top. Then just let it run through the deplorables to get immunity through infection. Yes in the US that might be painful with your lower rates of vaxx as being seen in southern US but shot rates are going up in US from the fear induced from death and hospitalizations.

[funkendrenchman]

I wish the feds would offer tax incentives to businesses that got their employees vaxxed.

All of my employees (4 of them) are vehemently anti vax. There is no reasoning with them, and really, I won't push the issue very hard because it's become so political. There's no business related reason for me to require them to get vaxxed (we don't interact with the public).

But if I could go to them and say that the business gets a tax break (I'm thinking ~$1000) for any employee that gets vaxxed, and I'd pass that along to them, it might work for a couple of them. In other words, it's another stimulus check that's paid through the business and only gets paid after proof of vaccination.

Doing that would:
- gain a little bit of GOP support because it's not mandatory; it's an incentive offered as a tax break.
- gain a little bit of GOP support because it's only offered through businesses, and therefore benefits "hard working Americans" and not "freeloading libs milking the unemployment system."
- for the above reasons, there's at least a chance that the right wing media would only partially shit on it.
- it would create a bit of peer pressure by doing it amongst a group of employees.

Makes too much sense.

[funkendrenchman]

Just based on my knowledge of my employees, if the government offered them a direct $1000 tax cut for getting vaccinated, none of them would take it (for all kinds of reasons, none of which make sense). If the business offered them a $1000 bonus for getting vaccinated (which would be reimbursed to the business as a tax cut), I think a couple of them would probably take it.

What if the government offered a $2500 stimulus check to everyone vaccinated? Think that would move the needle?

[liv2ski]

Guaranteed to work...

[jono]

Yeah, to be clear, I don't think the business needs to get the tax credit - it should be passed on to the employees.

But per the right wing media, if money from the government goes directly to people, it's wasting money on socialist welfare checks. If the exact same money goes through businesses as a tax cut, it's a path to economic prosperity because the rising tide is lifting all the boats.

Just based on my knowledge of my employees, if the government offered them a direct $1000 tax cut for getting vaccinated, none of them would take it (for all kinds of reasons, none of which make sense). If the business offered them a $1000 bonus for getting vaccinated (which would be reimbursed to the business as a tax cut), I think a couple of them would probably take it.

Yeah, humans are irrational, and even beyond personal sentiments you also have the advantage of being someone they know and see all the time. A lot of the employees of my customers (who I work with regularly) are included to bitch and moan about politics but they're slowly learning up shut up and get to work when, for example, masks are the company policy.

As far as a business case, you have a chance to take a step that doesn't cost you anything (net, anyway) and allows you to significantly reduce the chance of future lost productivity and, worst case, lost brain share. It's parallel to the case for the individual, and that fact probably has leverage, too: you can demonstrate good risk management. Even when the risks seem relatively small, if the cost to reduce them is zero an allegedly rational person should always take that step. (Now if we could stop picking up their hospital tabs.)

I would bet that presenting the offer to your employees gives you one of the best chances they'll have for an unemotional discussion.

[MultiVerse]

I don't care. Give me the shot. Cheap, easy, no side effects here.

I don't care about an individual decision over getting a third dose. The problem is antivaxxers are using it as an argument against vaccines in general. As the trolls / propagandists here put it: what's the point when you're going to need boosters every 8 months and besides natural infection is better anyway.

The argument is nutty and unscientific, and it's everywhere on social media. So by all means get a third dose for an antibody boost if you think you need it, but don't buy into the argument vaccines aren't working:

- Unvaccinated survivors are more than twice as likely to get reinfected, research indicates, dispelling belief that recovered are largely immune, particularly with new variants.

- Vaxxed breakthroughs are less infectious, which stops exponential growth among vaccinated groups.

- Most importantly, vaccines durably & dramatically lower the risk of a breakthrough infection spreading to your lungs.

[jono]

What if the government offered a $2500 stimulus check to everyone vaccinated? Think that would move the needle?

I think that would help, but paying by the day will get them to hurry up. And if we even see debate of a "bonus" like that there will be people who wait to see how it comes out.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Guaranteed to work...

Exactly. Apparently if you tell them it was developed for horses and is as good as bleach they'll be all over it. So sick of those people. Just exile them all to TX/FL already and be done with it.

[toast2266]

What if the government offered a $2500 stimulus check to everyone vaccinated? Think that would move the needle?

I dunno. Everyone has their price. I'm sure someone could do some polling and work up a cost benefit analysis to figure out what dollar amount would yield the most vaccinations.