To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[PowderHorse]

I have really good tix for my daughter (10, no vax) and myself (vaxed) to see Hamilton at the Fox in Atlanta next weekend. Mask requirement but no vaccine requirement for a packed house. And we have to fly there. This is her birthday present, we'll see her 98 y/o great-grandma and my best friend. We haven't traveled since Dec 2019 so the timing of Delta and full hospitals is making me want to avoid the South.

Damnit to hell, I really want to take her on this trip but it's certainly not essential.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

There are more infections now, so more people likely to encounter virus and get infected. The vaccine is not a forcefield that stops the virus from entering. It trains your immune system to respond to infection to prevent disease.

FAKE NEWS!!!!!


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[XXX-er]

I got vaccinated then I got covid. WTF fauci

but did you die ?

[mfcf13]

Yep, his frequent flier miles are amazing. 7 days on 21 off.

And he's probably one of those closeted Jesus freaks. Decent Vegas odds that he's got some twink side action in the UP.

[DougW]

but did you die ?

but of course he did ! he is posting from the beyond

[KQ]

I have really good tix for my daughter (10, no vax) and myself (vaxed) to see Hamilton at the Fox in Atlanta next weekend. Mask requirement but no vaccine requirement for a packed house. And we have to fly there. This is her birthday present, we'll see her 98 y/o great-grandma and my best friend. We haven't traveled since Dec 2019 so the timing of Delta and full hospitals is making me want to avoid the South.

Damnit to hell, I really want to take her on this trip but it's certainly not essential.

Yanno... a lot of people are traveling and seeing shows and they aren't all getting sick with many of them taking no precautions. Mask up (maybe get a KN95 or dbl up with a surgical mask for your flight and the play), don't eat out, use your hand sanitizer and be extra careful around grandma.

[Bunion 2020]

And he's probably one of those closeted Jesus freaks. Decent Vegas odds that he's got some twink side action in the UP.

Oh no, he is NOT closeted.

He found Jesus Christ his savior a couple of years ago, shortly after they got married. Good guy, doesn't proselytize and treats my friend pretty well.

It is his salvation that makes me think she is about ready to take the plunge. Her entire family is heavy born again. She was the black sheep. Taught english in Japan, traveled all over the East and SE Asia and Africa and was quite vocal about how "big" some of her lovers over the year were. Funny thing about the religion going dormant only to re-awaken in our later years.

[DougW]

Ok here is a question. Are there now study results in on breakthrough infections comparing natural immunity vs full vaccination? I've been seeing natural is more long lasting as we have been finding out that being vaxxed is not a complete silver bullet. Is that horseshit or somewhat incorrect. Of course there cannot be breakout infection in the dead so at least they are protected.

This Dr presents studies that natural slightly better like 2% on 94 to 96% so really awash without the death and stuff first time around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3wBC8wr3VQ

[mfcf13]

Oh no, he is NOT closeted.
Good guy, doesn't proselytize and treats my friend pretty well.

well at least that is good.

[wooley12]

but did you die ?

Apparently no. He's disappointed I'll bet.

[PNWbrit]

I have really good tix for my daughter (10, no vax) and myself (vaxed) to see Hamilton at the Fox in Atlanta next weekend. Mask requirement but no vaccine requirement for a packed house. And we have to fly there. This is her birthday present, we'll see her 98 y/o great-grandma and my best friend. We haven't traveled since Dec 2019 so the timing of Delta and full hospitals is making me want to avoid the South.

Damnit to hell, I really want to take her on this trip but it's certainly not essential.

I took a quick trip back to the UK last weekend/week, taking advantage of relaxation of UK vax/quarantine rules to see my 89 year old Dad. I hadn't seen him since Thanksgiving 2019 when he last visited here.

Flights were easy and about a quarter full. Negative tests required for outbound and return trips. Domestic flights a whole different deal I'm sure.

A couple of pub meals with good distancing and or outside. And a family picnic with siblings and nephews/nieces at Greenwich Park in London.

I sure as hell wouldn't go to a packed theater though. Not that I'd go see Hamilton even without a pandemic.

Negative test this morning 5 days after landing back in US. Dad, who I stayed with, negative as well.

I'll probably take another quick trip back next month since Dad is now going to have a flight in a dual seat Spitfire. Really don't want to miss that moment, since he grew up watching them in anger over the skies of London.

[seano732]

Two lawsuits immediately filed here in NM over the reinstitution of indoor mask mandates…..One of the plaintiffs is a well known anti vaxxer kook, the other……..is a fucking ER nurse here in the Q…. This is why we can’t have nice things.

[Benny Profane]

Actually he is an ER doc in the UP of Michigan and commutes. He is close to retirement and getting a PHD in Theology so he can write Jesus books. Her folks were always deeply religious and she was not. I think that pendulum is starting to swing as well.

We were talking about me going up to WSS to visit and I was going to look at property as an exit strategy from what has become Bozeangles. After discussing the local political scene there and looking at the local listings I am much less inclined to look in that direction.

Yup, that totally justifies the WFH real estate values. Sure.

[Ted Striker]

I'll probably take another quick trip back next month since Dad is now going to have a flight in a dual seat Spitfire. Really don't want to miss that moment, since he grew up watching them in anger over the skies of London.

That's pretty cool.

Kinda chuckling that anyone in the UK is interested in Hamilton.

[TBS]

Two lawsuits immediately filed here in NM over the reinstitution of indoor mask mandates…..One of the plaintiffs is a well known anti vaxxer kook, the other……..is a fucking ER nurse here in the Q…. This is why we can’t have nice things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobs...%20the%20state.

[bodywhomper]

The main regional high school is having an outbreak. The district is coordinating with the state to run a test program of all unvaxed kids and will then start a surveillance program. Testing is today (Saturday). Kids might be vaxed or have negative rapid tests to attend school. The schools have other mitigation, too, such as ventilation and mask requirements. I see this as a commendable service being provided to our surging community and the only means to keep the school open.

Shelly Rose, of Sandpoint, ID, owner of Sea Dreams Orgone, is instigating a call to unrest and potential physical conflict in a county and state that she does not live in. If somebody on this board knows her or recognizes her and sees her around Sandpoint, please make her stop.

Here’s her initial post to her new and growing FB group. The district superintendent and sheriff are aware this is happening.

[jono]

Ok here is a question. Are there now study results in on breakthrough infections comparing natural immunity vs full vaccination? I've been seeing natural is more long lasting as we have been finding out that being vaxxed is not a complete silver bullet. Is that horseshit or somewhat incorrect. Of course there cannot be breakout infection in the dead so at least they are protected.

This Dr presents studies that natural slightly better like 2% on 94 to 96% so really awash without the death and stuff first time around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3wBC8wr3VQ

I'm not going to claim any expertise here and I'm not taking so much on the latest natural immunity studies. But are you sure that is the right question? If you were trying to decide whether to get delta or a vaccine the comparison would be important, but notice that doc is basically making an argument for prioritizing doses, not that natural is better. Natural is probably 10,000x more likely to kill you, so no one is seriously focused on answering that question.

Also, some of the headlines might be a little fear-driven. Remember that the people who've had a vaccine the longest are in the highest risk groups, so now we have stats showing the people who've had it the longest are having more breakthroughs--at a time when exposures and contagiousness are both up. So tgat should be expected. Not every study will fail to account for confounding factors, but those two can be sneaky and they'll both make it look like immunity is waning faster than it really is. Also, as you noted, only those who survived have a chance to be reinfected. If you took the total vaccinated and subtracted 1.7% of them by ignoring the dead and the most severe (those who would have died if they'd had a natural infection) and breakthroughs look a lot better, too. I'm not sure exactly how to set that math up off the top of my head (certainly not the way I suggested it there, since it would need to account for at least a couple of confounding factors, too) but some correction is required for an accurate comparison in the studies that video mentioned.

This has been linked before but it's a good review of the statistical weirdness:

https://www.covid-datascience.com/po...are-vaccinated

[Skidog]

I have really good tix for my daughter (10, no vax) and myself (vaxed) to see Hamilton at the Fox in Atlanta next weekend. Mask requirement but no vaccine requirement for a packed house. And we have to fly there. This is her birthday present, we'll see her 98 y/o great-grandma and my best friend. We haven't traveled since Dec 2019 so the timing of Delta and full hospitals is making me want to avoid the South.

Damnit to hell, I really want to take her on this trip but it's certainly not essential.

I for sure likely fall into a "take the risk" group among most on here. One thing I am very skeptical of is air travel. I dont know so much that it's the plane ride part, but something doesn't sit right with me about longer distance travel. I can't say why, because really the risk is mostly same if you drove there, but still.

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[DougW]

Oh no, I've got the jab x2 so not trying to decide anything for myself. Agree that Utube doc if has agenda is that recovered don't need shot so more shots can be given to others. Which really doesn't work as how do you prove and doing a antibody test is more money and logistics than just getting the jab. Just roll up the sleeve to win.

Its just that I have seen comments that natural is so much better than artificial ( vac not tits) and was wondering if total BS. From that Israel study it looks about the same with slight edge to natural but very close. Nothing I have seen so far on long term .

[Skidog]

I was saying the other day. Basically we know there are no super serious implications for any of the various vaccines. Maybe years from now something different but unlikely. I am considering just pulling a "Splat" here and running the gamut..I mean how could it hurt? My sister's PCP (not that kind) said basically go for it.

Any reason not to mag Dr nerds? I'm not taking the garage one Splat took though, keep this in mind.

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[jono]

Oh no, I've got the jab x2 so not trying to decide anything for myself. Agree that Utube doc if has agenda is that recovered don't need shot so more shots can be given to others. Which really doesn't work as how do you prove and doing a antibody test is more money and logistics than just getting the jab. Just roll up the sleeve to win.

Its just that I have seen comments that natural is so much better than artificial ( vac not tits) and was wondering if total BS. From that Israel study it looks about the same with slight edge to natural but very close. Nothing I have seen so far on long term .

Yeah, I didn't take it that you were trying to make that decision.

The raw numbers look similar, but I strongly doubt that there would still be any kind of edge for the natural set if there was a correction for the differences between the data sets for deaths in the natural set. Or, put another way, that should vanish once you correct for the fact that the vaccinated group has to bring those highest-risk people through and have them show up in the breakthroughs.

[DougW]

Yeah, I didn't take it that you were trying to make that decision.

The raw numbers look similar, but I strongly doubt that there would still be any kind of edge for the natural set if there was a correction for the differences between the data sets for deaths in the natural set. Or, put another way, that should vanish once you correct for the fact that the vaccinated group has to bring those highest-risk people through and have them show up in the breakthroughs.

Very good point that the naturals are naturally going to be better as part of their team is dead so they don't the dead ones pulling down their scores so to say.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I was saying the other day. Basically we know there are no super serious implications for any of the various vaccines. Maybe years from now something different but unlikely. I am considering just pulling a "Splat" here and running the gamut..I mean how could it hurt? My sister's PCP (not that kind) said basically go for it.

Any reason not to mag Dr nerds? I'm not taking the garage one Splat took though, keep this in mind.

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Not a doctor but healthcare worker, I’m getting a booster as soon as it’s approved for everyone. I’m not going to lie to get one right now. I’m doing it as much for the patients as I’m doing it for me. It seems like an obligation for healthcare workers.


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[jono]

I have really good tix for my daughter (10, no vax) and myself (vaxed) to see Hamilton at the Fox in Atlanta next weekend. Mask requirement but no vaccine requirement for a packed house. And we have to fly there. This is her birthday present, we'll see her 98 y/o great-grandma and my best friend. We haven't traveled since Dec 2019 so the timing of Delta and full hospitals is making me want to avoid the South.

Damnit to hell, I really want to take her on this trip but it's certainly not essential.

I dunno where I fall on the real risk taking scale here, but I've been pretty careful, because I don't trust my modified immune system (I'm 3 weeks into a cold or mild breakthrough--I tested negative--and finally almost done with it, for example). My wife and I went to Hawaii in early May (both V+2 or 3 months). I threatened to make us hoods out of plastic shopping bags and hook them to the overhead air ports, but my wife wouldn't let me. Damn it. Instead we wore KN95s under medical masks and I added a sweatshirt with a built-in zip "balaclava" hood (Sneffles FTW!) with hat/glasses over that. We got seats on the right side and opened up the air to max. My wife wiped down our seats like they were a porta-potty at Burning Man.

I hear you can fly without eating, but I can't. I snacked the whole way, but didn't take one full breath without the mask(s). I held my breath, lifted mask and filled my mouth, put it back on, adjusted to re-seal and exhaled like clearing a snorkel (but slow). There may have been some hand sanitizer. Probably should have been, by those standards.

I'm not sure what this all means to you but FWIW I wouldn't miss seeing a Spitfire flight and we were ridiculously overdue for Hawaii. I carry a beacon/shovel/probe and I figure these risks can be mitigated, too. How much? IDK. But 10/10, would do it again.

[TBS]

Not a doctor but healthcare worker, I’m getting a booster as soon as it’s approved for everyone. I’m not going to lie to get one right now. I’m doing it as much for the patients as I’m doing it for me. It seems like an obligation for healthcare workers.

As someone said today, "it's about we, not me"

OTOH, Right after Oregon mandated vax for all healthcare and education workers, President of Oregon Nurses Association came out against the requirement on the grounds that it would reduce the number of available nurses.
Uh Huh.....