To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Dexter Rutecki]

Please respond with facts and not emotions. You sound like a woman.

You should aspire to sound like a (non-brain damaged) woman. But instead you sound like what you are.

[Truckee Joe]

Lester Holt? How cute...
How about the people on the front lines of this shit... hospital workers. There's some in this very thread you're reading telling you what's happening.
You'll be convinced when those same hospy workers are prepping you for intubation

I don't doubt the virus is bad. I know it sucks and sucks for the people who are helping fight it who don't have any tools or knowledge about how to treat it. They are being asked to do incredible things with one hand tied behind there back. I just wish we didn't only lean on the vax solution. It's good but not the only way. What happened to contact tracing and quarantine. How about quick testing. Do we even do that or it only for the NBA? How about working on treatment so it doesn't get so bad that you die. The division everyone promotes on both sides isn't helping. It's has to be worse for people blood pressure to turn into Chads and Karen's.
Everyone should make their appointment now to get your booster shot, that way we can keep other countries from getting any. Some that want it can't get it and others that don't are being forced. We are all good though, at least grandma is alive and the nurses can go back to treating obesity. It's only about going back to the old ways as fast as possible.

[funkendrenchman]

Meanwhile, Polis is an idiot.

Polis Sees No Need For A Statewide Mask Mandate In Schools — At Least Not Yet
https://www.cpr.org/2021/08/12/color...delta-variant/

[Percy Rideout]

Article doesn’t say what you say it does, ban this clown. None of your “quotes” are real except for encouraging the vaccine hesitant. Fuck off you sociopath


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Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

In fact, 66% of all positive COVID-19 cases among residents in Pitkin County in the 28-day period ending Tuesday have been so-called “breakthrough” cases, or those involving fully vaccinated residents, Josh Vance, county epidemiologist, told members of the Pitkin County Board of Health on Thursday.

“The breakthrough rate is a lot higher than expected,” Vance said, adding that it should be around 25% of cases.

In a subsequent interview Thursday night, Vance said the 66% number has puzzled local public health officials, who plan to meet with state public health officials Monday to discuss the local breakthrough rate and try to understand it better.

“Because we do think it’s unusual it’s that high,” he said.

One of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because 58% of visitors to Aspen and Pitkin County are unvaccinated, he said. Public health officials know that from interviews with out-of-county people who test positive in Pitkin County and are asked about their vaccination status.

Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

How are you interpreting this article differently? I'd love to hear you out instead of trying to banhammer others for posting relevant articles and facts related to the discussion.

You do realize that it is YOU adding nothing to this conversation.

[Danno]

Would you mind clarifying this a little further? Is the policy that if a poster gets reported often enough they get banned? Or do the reports need to spell out the pattern of misinformation? Asking because that seems like the first mention of such a pattern being a factor (that I've seen).

FTR, I don't think we have a lot of intentional misinformation posters (outside PA), but the few we have seem to carry weight with the casually uninformed.

I am speaking for myself, and there is no "policy". But generally speaking, if someone is spouting misinformation so frequently and so badly that it warrants banning, all I'm saying is the people who can and might ban that poster for it, need to know about it. And they won't know about it without reports. This is pretty much always the party line when people complain about how the mods won't ban someone or do something, but those people haven't once reported a post, so they're essentially saying that the mods should be all knowing and all reading. Report problematic posts if you want something done about the posts.

For ex, I don't read this thread regularly anymore (the last couple of days has been my first reading of it in quite a while), in fact the last few months I have only been staying up on a small handful of threads (and the occasional new one, because I need to know that SUF is going to get his face ripped off by a monkey). I won't know if someone's posts in here deserve being looked at, let alone deserve a banning, if they aren't reported. And a one-off post by an otherwise "regular" mag isn't going to lead to banning. But if someone repeatedly posts stuff that rises to an actionable level, it will only be actionable if the people capable of actioning see all of those posts. That's all I am saying.

[funkendrenchman]

How about working on treatment so it doesn't get so bad that you die.

Kind of like what a vaccine does?

[funkendrenchman]

Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

In fact, 66% of all positive COVID-19 cases among residents in Pitkin County in the 28-day period ending Tuesday have been so-called “breakthrough” cases, or those involving fully vaccinated residents, Josh Vance, county epidemiologist, told members of the Pitkin County Board of Health on Thursday.

“The breakthrough rate is a lot higher than expected,” Vance said, adding that it should be around 25% of cases.

In a subsequent interview Thursday night, Vance said the 66% number has puzzled local public health officials, who plan to meet with state public health officials Monday to discuss the local breakthrough rate and try to understand it better.

“Because we do think it’s unusual it’s that high,” he said.

One of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because 58% of visitors to Aspen and Pitkin County are unvaccinated, he said. Public health officials know that from interviews with out-of-county people who test positive in Pitkin County and are asked about their vaccination status.

Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

How are you interpreting this article differently? I'd love to hear you out instead of trying to banhammer others for posting relevant articles and facts related to the discussion.

You do realize that it is YOU adding nothing to this conversation.

That article sucked.

The highlight of the meeting yesterday was when our great mayor asked if we still needed to be concerned about the effects of increased CO2 when masking.

That said, what's your point?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I don't doubt the virus is bad. I know it sucks and sucks for the people who are helping fight it who don't have any tools or knowledge about how to treat it. They are being asked to do incredible things with one hand tied behind there back. I just wish we didn't only lean on the vax solution. It's good but not the only way. What happened to contact tracing and quarantine. How about quick testing. Do we even do that or it only for the NBA? How about working on treatment so it doesn't get so bad that you die. The division everyone promotes on both sides isn't helping. It's has to be worse for people blood pressure to turn into Chads and Karen's.
Everyone should make their appointment now to get your booster shot, that way we can keep other countries from getting any. Some that want it can't get it and others that don't are being forced. We are all good though, at least grandma is alive and the nurses can go back to treating obesity. It's only about going back to the old ways as fast as possible.

Where have you been for the last eighteen months? We have the tools and know how to treat the patients. The problem is there are too many unvaccinated people needing inpatient care and spreading the disease.

Your “concerned” posts are disingenuous and crafted to create more division. If that’s not the case then you’re just incredibly stupid AND ignorant. God help us


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[paulster2626]

Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

In fact, 66% of all positive COVID-19 cases among residents in Pitkin County in the 28-day period ending Tuesday have been so-called “breakthrough” cases, or those involving fully vaccinated residents, Josh Vance, county epidemiologist, told members of the Pitkin County Board of Health on Thursday.

“The breakthrough rate is a lot higher than expected,” Vance said, adding that it should be around 25% of cases.

In a subsequent interview Thursday night, Vance said the 66% number has puzzled local public health officials, who plan to meet with state public health officials Monday to discuss the local breakthrough rate and try to understand it better.

“Because we do think it’s unusual it’s that high,” he said.

One of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because 58% of visitors to Aspen and Pitkin County are unvaccinated, he said. Public health officials know that from interviews with out-of-county people who test positive in Pitkin County and are asked about their vaccination status.

Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

How are you interpreting this article differently? I'd love to hear you out instead of trying to banhammer others for posting relevant articles and facts related to the discussion.

You do realize that it is YOU adding nothing to this conversation.

That's a tiny-as-fuck sample size though, and is kind of an outlier when compared to other real-world data. Lets look at some better data, shall we?

Ontario, Canada has 14 million people in it. Every day we get the raw numbers. Todays aren't really all that different than yesterday, so here you go:

Cases break down like this: Delta variant is @ 94%, Alpha at 5% (oh how I miss that sweet, sweet alpha!)

Today's total positive cases: 510
Deaths: 4
Current ICUs: 111 (-2 vs. yest.) (+1 vs. last week)
81.31% / 72.81% of 12+ at least one/two dosed
Cases by Vax (un/part/full): 8.43 / 3.70 / 0.95 per 100k today

Every day we are getting proof that the vaccines ARE WORKING. You cannot disagree with facts. I mean, you personally probably can because that's your thing, but a normal clear-thinking person can't.

[jono]

Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

......
Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

An uptick in breakthrough cases over a given period probably means there was an uptick in exposures over that period. And an influx of unvaxed "visitors" is a likely place to start looking for that. Your point is that rational observation should be more politically correct?

[MultiVerse]

And they are essentially 100% effective at preventing death/serious illness. These numbers about how many cases occur in vaxed people are misleading--most of the infections in vaxed people are, at worst, the equivalent of a mild flu (unfortunately for him I have a friend who's currently quarantining after coming up positive while being fully vaxed--he has mild flu symptoms and some chest tightness).

Unfortunately, the increased risk from Delta affects everyone, including the vaxxed. Including the risk of death/serious illness. However, the relative risk has increased even more for the unvaxxed.

So while it makes sense for people to be discouraged by this development, it doesn't make sense for people to conclude vaccines don't work when the numbers clearly show they're now more important than ever .

[dunfree]

Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

In fact, 66% of all positive COVID-19 cases among residents in Pitkin County in the 28-day period ending Tuesday have been so-called “breakthrough” cases, or those involving fully vaccinated residents, Josh Vance, county epidemiologist, told members of the Pitkin County Board of Health on Thursday.

“The breakthrough rate is a lot higher than expected,” Vance said, adding that it should be around 25% of cases.

In a subsequent interview Thursday night, Vance said the 66% number has puzzled local public health officials, who plan to meet with state public health officials Monday to discuss the local breakthrough rate and try to understand it better.

“Because we do think it’s unusual it’s that high,” he said.

One of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because 58% of visitors to Aspen and Pitkin County are unvaccinated, he said. Public health officials know that from interviews with out-of-county people who test positive in Pitkin County and are asked about their vaccination status.

Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

How are you interpreting this article differently? I'd love to hear you out instead of trying to banhammer others for posting relevant articles and facts related to the discussion.

You do realize that it is YOU adding nothing to this conversation.

nothing in that says the vaccine aren’t working, dumbfuck.

[Mofro261]

I don't doubt the virus is bad. I know it sucks and sucks for the people who are helping fight it who don't have any tools or knowledge about how to treat it. They are being asked to do incredible things with one hand tied behind there back. I just wish we didn't only lean on the vax solution. It's good but not the only way. What happened to contact tracing and quarantine. How about quick testing. Do we even do that or it only for the NBA? How about working on treatment so it doesn't get so bad that you die. The division everyone promotes on both sides isn't helping. It's has to be worse for people blood pressure to turn into Chads and Karen's.
Everyone should make their appointment now to get your booster shot, that way we can keep other countries from getting any. Some that want it can't get it and others that don't are being forced. We are all good though, at least grandma is alive and the nurses can go back to treating obesity. It's only about going back to the old ways as fast as possible.

Joe, contact tracing works when outbreaks are limited and resources are vast. Once the virus gets loose tracing these strings becomes impossible from a manpower standpoint.

It is also a bit naive to think there isn't a ton of work ongoing to come up with better therapies, Im personally associated with a couple of these efforts. But drugs for treatment are always going to be more expensive and have more risk associated with them than preventive measures.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I don't doubt the virus is bad. I know it sucks and sucks for the people who are helping fight it who don't have any tools or knowledge about how to treat it. They are being asked to do incredible things with one hand tied behind there back. I just wish we didn't only lean on the vax solution. It's good but not the only way. What happened to contact tracing and quarantine. How about quick testing. Do we even do that or it only for the NBA? How about working on treatment so it doesn't get so bad that you die. The division everyone promotes on both sides isn't helping. It's has to be worse for people blood pressure to turn into Chads and Karen's.
Everyone should make their appointment now to get your booster shot, that way we can keep other countries from getting any. Some that want it can't get it and others that don't are being forced. We are all good though, at least grandma is alive and the nurses can go back to treating obesity. It's only about going back to the old ways as fast as possible.

Christ, man--you don't know it, for some reason, but what you're saying is we need everyone vaxed. Why do you wish we didn't lean on the vax solution? Do you wish we didn't do that for measles, polio, mumps, etc.? What you're saying doesn't make sense. If you want us to return to pre2020 life we all need to be vaxed--you said it's 'good,' and then said it's not the only way, but it actually is (unless you enjoy masks and avoiding being in enclosed spaces with people).

I have no idea why you would think that working on further treatments would be better than essentially eliminating this disease (which we can only do through vaxes). Most of your post makes no sense.

[californiagrown]

I have a buddy who got covid last summer. He is unvaxxed. He isnt an antivaxer by anymeans, and kind of sheepishly doesnt offer up any real reason for not getting vaxed. His new wife on the other hand believes that the vaccine will make her infertile and could possibly make my buddy infertile and says things like "i dont trust a vaccine that changes your DNA like these new ones". Her dad is some kind of doctor and apparently gave her this advice. She got angry recently when my 8.5 month pregnant wife politely declined a dinner invitation because she doesnt want to be around unvaccinated people right now (i read the text conversation, it was polite). Buddy's wife said something along the lines of "i respect your opinion on the vaccine and its really disappointing you don't respect mine". SMH. Its a bummer, and im hoping she doesnt fully brainwash my buddy, but he is moving back to his old hometown to be closer to her family so im not holding out too much hope.

[paulster2626]

Christ, man--you don't know it, for some reason, but what you're saying is we need everyone vaxed. Why do you wish we didn't lean on the vax solution? Do you wish we didn't do that for measles, polio, mumps, etc.? What you're saying doesn't make sense. If you want us to return to pre2020 life we all need to be vaxed--you said it's 'good,' and then said it's not the only way, but it actually is (unless you enjoy masks and avoiding being in enclosed spaces with people).

I have no idea why you would think that working on further treatments would be better than essentially eliminating this disease (which we can only do through vaxes). Most of your post makes no sense.

It's like saying treatments for cancer are better than outright prevention of the disease in the first place. So bizarre.

So far in Ontario (72% 12+ vaccinated):
Vaccine Efficacy (negative value indicates reduction in cases):
To-date Average
1 dose = -58.6%
2 dose = -88.0%

All eyes on Canada now.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Unfortunately, the increased risk from Delta affects everyone, including the vaxxed. Including the risk of death/serious illness. However, the relative risk has increased even more for the unvaxxed.

Yes, that's what I was saying--vaxed are at risk for infection, but the vaxed will almost certainly not have severe illness. I am basing this on what I've heard/read from reliable sources, like the following:

A Canadian study that's still awaiting peer review found that after both doses of Pfizer's shot, the risk of a symptomatic Delta infection dropped by 87% and the risk of hospitalization or death from Delta dropped by 100%.

Data from Israel's Ministry of Health suggests a bit less protection: 64% against a Delta infection (asymptomatic or symptomatic) and 93% against serious illness or hospitalization from Delta.

[seano732]

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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Did you not read the article? Here. I got you.

A majority of visitors to the Aspen area is unvaccinated, which may partially explain why Pitkin County has a much higher rate of vaccinated residents testing positive for COVID-19 than public health officials expected, an official said Thursday.

In fact, 66% of all positive COVID-19 cases among residents in Pitkin County in the 28-day period ending Tuesday have been so-called “breakthrough” cases, or those involving fully vaccinated residents, Josh Vance, county epidemiologist, told members of the Pitkin County Board of Health on Thursday.

“The breakthrough rate is a lot higher than expected,” Vance said, adding that it should be around 25% of cases.

In a subsequent interview Thursday night, Vance said the 66% number has puzzled local public health officials, who plan to meet with state public health officials Monday to discuss the local breakthrough rate and try to understand it better.

“Because we do think it’s unusual it’s that high,” he said.

One of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because 58% of visitors to Aspen and Pitkin County are unvaccinated, he said. Public health officials know that from interviews with out-of-county people who test positive in Pitkin County and are asked about their vaccination status.

Just like I said, The Pitkin County Health Department is blaming the unvaccinated visitors for the unexpectedly high number of breakthrough cases locally.

How are you interpreting this article differently? I'd love to hear you out instead of trying to banhammer others for posting relevant articles and facts related to the discussion.

You do realize that it is YOU adding nothing to this conversation.

Four paragraphs from the article and they aren’t in sequence. That’s your argument? I read the whole article. You put in quotes “it’s your fault my vaccine isn’t working”. No where in that article did it say that. It actually said that the vaccine was working because the breakthrough cases in Pitkin county account for .6% of the vaccinated population. That’s pretty fucking good given the rising positive test rates there among residents and visitors and that large percentages of visitors and residents are unvaccinated. You’re a disingenuous lying sack of shit.


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[Deebased]

This is a ridiculous post. No one ever said the vax was 100%, and this variant didn't exist when the vaxes were rolled out. And we always knew this would happen if people didn't get vaccinated, and now it's happening. What's your point?

You people are fucking it up for all of us--just stop being willfully ignorant and pretending you can question basic facts.

Dumbfuck... As soon as you start using facts and not politically motivated talking points I'm sure someone will be happy to discuss

1. Look when the delta variant was first discovered. If we had shut our borders we MIGHT have been able to stop it, but that's possibility is long since passed
2. Vax efficacy continues to trend downwards with almost every study.
3. Numerous studies are seeing infection rates between fully vaxed and unvaxed at relatively similar numbers
4. Delta is killing and causing severe cases in the fully vaxed. 22% mortality in this Isreali study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34245907/. Lots of comorbidities similar to the general population in the fat ole USA

[paulster2626]

Yes, that's what I was saying--vaxed are at risk for infection, but the vaxed will almost certainly not have severe illness. I am basing this on what I've heard/read from reliable sources, like the following:

A Canadian study that's still awaiting peer review found that after both doses of Pfizer's shot, the risk of a symptomatic Delta infection dropped by 87% and the risk of hospitalization or death from Delta dropped by 100%.

Data from Israel's Ministry of Health suggests a bit less protection: 64% against a Delta infection (asymptomatic or symptomatic) and 93% against serious illness or hospitalization from Delta.

Lots of mixing-and-matching here in Canada. You either got:

AZ + AZ
Pfizer + Pfizer (age 12-17 this is all they could get)
Moderna + Moderna
AZ + Pfizer (mostly 40-60 who did this)
AZ + Moderna (that's me! and mostly 40-60 who did this)
Pfizer + Moderna

Happy to be a 'walking lab rat' for the rest of the world to see how it plays out.

[paulster2626]

Dumbfuck... As soon as you start using facts and not politically motivated talking points I'm sure someone will be happy to discuss

2. Vax efficacy continues to trend downwards with almost every study.
3. Numerous studies are seeing infection rates between fully vaxed and unvaxed at relatively similar numbers
4. Delta is killing and causing severe cases in the fully vaxed. 22% mortality in this Isreali study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34245907/. Lots of comorbidities similar to the general population in the fat ole USA

Why is none of this happening in Canada where Delta is @ 94% of cases?

[wooley12]

Just so you know. In his brain he really believes he is quoting what he read. Worms.

[jono]

Dumbfuck... As soon as you start using facts and not politically motivated talking points I'm sure someone will be happy to discuss

1. Look when the delta variant was first discovered. If we had shut our borders we MIGHT have been able to stop it, but that's possibility is long since passed
2. Vax efficacy continues to trend downwards with almost every study.
3. Numerous studies are seeing infection rates between fully vaxed and unvaxed at relatively similar numbers
4. Delta is killing and causing severe cases in the fully vaxed. 22% mortality in this Isreali study. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34245907/. Lots of comorbidities similar to the general population in the fat ole USA

Intentionally misleading post. 22% of those who were hospitalized eventually died. That's not an increase in mortality. If you're bad off enough to be hospitalized you have a strong chance of dying. I've said it before: you cannot be this innumerate, you can only be lying intentionally. STFU&GTFO

[MultiVerse]

Yes, that's what I was saying--vaxed are at risk for infection, but the vaxed will almost certainly not have severe illness. I am basing this on what I've heard/read from reliable sources, like the following:

A Canadian study that's still awaiting peer review found that after both doses of Pfizer's shot, the risk of a symptomatic Delta infection dropped by 87% and the risk of hospitalization or death from Delta dropped by 100%.

Data from Israel's Ministry of Health suggests a bit less protection: 64% against a Delta infection (asymptomatic or symptomatic) and 93% against serious illness or hospitalization from Delta.

The situation is already worse per capita in America than either of those countries. That's because of our overall lower vaccination rates. In other words, Aspen and other vax skeptics are drawing the wrong conclusions from breakthrough infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Per Aspen's article, "one of the reasons for the higher infection rate among fully vaccinated residents is probably because" of higher unvaccinated rates.