To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[bennymac]

[mtuhockey33]

Not really a fair comparison, if your making unhealthy life choices, your not contagious and can't get me sick. I know your inferring about care, but it's not a fair comparison all the same

Your complaining about people going to the hospital and using their resources due to lack of whatever.

Taking care of yourself so you’re not obese is absolutely in the realm of preventable reasons to go to the hospital. As far as nobody getting sick from someone else living an unhealthy life; that’s absolutely not true otherwise we wouldn’t have any secondhand smoke cancer patients.

But keep pushing whatever narrative helps you and your side rationalize your disgust with the rest of society.

[huckbucket]

Taking care of yourself so you’re not obese is absolutely in the realm of preventable reasons to go to the hospital. As far as nobody getting sick from someone else living an unhealthy life; that’s absolutely not true otherwise we wouldn’t have any secondhand smoke cancer patients.

Which is precisely why we have laws which ban smoking in indoor public places. Requiring masks in public places when community rate of infection are high or when the pathogen is highly contageous is the same principle (other than the fact that you think masks are technically useless).

[east or bust]

So what’s the over/under on the virus mutating into a strain not covered by the current vaccines as it continues to circulate in the ~46% of unvaccinated Americans?

That’s my number one concern, and honestly seems pretty plausible in my mind.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[riser4]

Omg. The maga crowd is upset about Obama's party and how many superspreaders did they have during the campaign??? During a time when there was no vax available. And they didn't wear masks or social distance. And they ended up killing off some of their own. Herman Cain was murdered. Personally, I wouldn't hold a party for even 7 people right now. I think it's a bit tone deaf and dangerous to have 700 or even 500. However the magtards need to check their indignation at the door.

[::: :::]

Grasping at straw men

[Bunion 2020]

Grasping at straw men

So Austin should be along any minute?

[yeahman]

Your complaining about people going to the hospital and using their resources due to lack of whatever.

Taking care of yourself so you’re not obese is absolutely in the realm of preventable reasons to go to the hospital. As far as nobody getting sick from someone else living an unhealthy life; that’s absolutely not true otherwise we wouldn’t have any secondhand smoke cancer patients.

But keep pushing whatever narrative helps you and your side rationalize your disgust with the rest of society.

You are either being obtuse or you are just completely lacking in empathy. I have a hard time believing you are not capable of understanding how the circumstances are different between our normal self-induced health problems--that the system is set up to handle--and a once-in-a-century pandemic that the system is clearly NOT set up to handle. What exactly about that confuses you?

[TBS]

Some People don’t trust the Covid vax but are more than happy to take veterinary-grade Ivermectin (an anti-parasitic) instead.
Now Farm supply stores are running out
https://slate.com/technology/2021/08...ly-stores.html
SMH

[mtuhockey33]

You are either being obtuse or you are just completely lacking in empathy. I have a hard time believing you are not capable of understanding how the circumstances are different between our normal self-induced health problems--that the system is set up to handle--and a once-in-a-century pandemic that the system is clearly NOT set up to handle. What exactly about that confuses you?

K2skier seems to think that hospitals are only there for people that get sick or injured due to factors outside their control. By that logic, drunk drivers shouldn’t be taken care of, obesity shouldn’t be covered and neither should people who smoke and get lung cancer because all 3 of those could be avoided had they chosen better life choices. Same with people that get sick with measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, shingles, the yearly flu, etc… all things you could get vaccinated for and yet they go to the hospital with problems too.

You’re drawing the line at an EUA vaccine that still hasn’t gotten full FDA approval and has no long term studies done on the effects (forgive me if I’m wrong but we haven’t had mRNA vaccines before) To me that shows your ignorance.

[mtuhockey33]

Which is precisely why we have laws which ban smoking in indoor public places. Requiring masks in public places when community rate of infection are high or when the pathogen is highly contageous is the same principle (other than the fact that you think masks are technically useless).

Please show me a quote where I said masks are useless. I’ll wait because it hasn’t happened. I’m not against masks; I’m against an EUA vaccine that still doesn’t have full FDA approval or any long term effects known. But keep putting up those straw men so you have someone to beat.

[huckbucket]

Please show me a quote where I said masks are useless. I’ll wait because it hasn’t happened. I’m not against masks; I’m against an EUA vaccine that still doesn’t have full FDA approval or any long term effects known. But keep putting up those straw men so you have someone to beat.

And you never answered my prior question about the level of evidence you'll be looking for in the full approval that's not available right now.

[mtuhockey33]

And you never answered my prior question about the level of evidence you'll be looking for in the full approval that's not available right now.

If you can show me a 2-3 year out evidence that this vaccine won’t have any side effects on anyone; awesome! I’d love to see it. These vaccines haven’t even been out that long and to say that we actually know how they could/will effect us in a couple years is literally guessing.

We don’t have any long term data and I’m sorry if I don’t think the government has the best interest of the people at their forefront currently.

[::: :::]

What’s that thing about perfect enemy of the good, or some such…?


Absolute certainty is the only available avenue when the tribe has forbidden the path

[Deebased]

Fair question, and I would say no, it is not equivalent. Those fat/addicted etc. people aren't overwhelming emergency rooms and ICUs, stressing healthcare workers to the max, not to mention actually spreading the disease to them in many instances. Call me crazy but I happen to consider a once-in-a-century pandemic to be a unique circumstance, apart from our everyday self-induced health problems that our system is designed to handle. And when all it takes to almost certainly avoid being hospitalized due to covid is a frickin free poke in the arm, then those unwilling to take that simple step for the betterment of humanity should really consider just staying home and treating themselves.

Of course I realize we're not going to turn away these fools at the hospital door, but damn, it's heartbreaking to see the HC workers going through all this surge bullshit again when it is totally unnecessary, and most of the ones they are caring for are plainly undeserving of their sacrifice.

Of course its contagious not in an r0 sort of way but social acceptability and the entire bullshit body positivity movement have accelerated the transmission to children, family members and stranger.

That's not to mention the exorbitant costs of new medical equipment from ambulances to gurneys required to hoist the whales around.

Obesity is a far larger short and long term threat than Covid but we aren't allowed to talk about that here. Some #woke asshole might get triggered.

[::: :::]

Of course its contagious not in an r0 sort of way but social acceptability and the entire bullshit body positivity movement not to mention the exorbitant costs of new medical equipment from ambulances to gurneys required to hoist the whales around.

Obesity is a far larger short and long term threat than Covid but we aren't allowed to talk about that here. Some #woke asshole might get triggered.

There’s been plenty of hooksets
Go ahead and start that epic thread

[Deebased]

There’s been plenty of hooksets
Go ahead and start that epic thread

Considering its one of the best tools we have to fight against this pandemic and the next one, there's no need to go fishing.

[paulster2626]

If you can show me a 2-3 year out evidence that this vaccine won’t have any side effects on anyone; awesome! I’d love to see it. These vaccines haven’t even been out that long and to say that we actually know how they could/will effect us in a couple years is literally guessing.

We don’t have any long term data and I’m sorry if I don’t think the government has the best interest of the people at their forefront currently.

Now, I'm certainly not qualified to talk about any of this, but that makes two of us.

AstraZeneca - uses the dead monkey virus to train immune system to stop COVID spike protein. This is just new version of a vaccine that has been known safe and effective for years.
J&J - same thing as AZ? I dunno we don't use that up here.
Pfizer/Moderna mRNA - has been in development since the 90's. Fucking game-changers. You can read about them here: https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/52424.html

What long term effects do you think could happen? The people who researched and developed and reviewed these don't believe there will be any. Why do you put a greater risk on the vaccines vs. the possibility of becoming infected with COVID and the unknown long term effects of that? I am honestly unable to comprehend how you get to this conclusion, and I'd love to hear a decent explanation.

FDA/Health Canada full approval comes after time + lots of data. It'll be approved soon - at that point will you take it?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...er-if-they-are

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
FDA/Health Canada full approval comes after time + lots of data. It'll be approved soon - at that point will you take it?

No. No he is *not* going to take it at that point. Please move along... nothing to see/discuss here.

[k2skier112]

Now, I'm certainly not qualified to talk about any of this, but that makes two of us.

AstraZeneca - uses the dead monkey virus to train immune system to stop COVID spike protein. This is just new version of a vaccine that has been known safe and effective for years.
J&J - same thing as AZ? I dunno we don't use that up here.
Pfizer/Moderna mRNA - has been in development since the 90's. Fucking game-changers. You can read about them here: https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/52424.html

What long term effects do you think could happen? The people who researched and developed and reviewed these don't believe there will be any. Why do you put a greater risk on the vaccines vs. the possibility of becoming infected with COVID and the unknown long term effects of that? I am honestly unable to comprehend how you get to this conclusion, and I'd love to hear a decent explanation.

FDA/Health Canada full approval comes after time + lots of data. It'll be approved soon - at that point will you take it?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...er-if-they-are

but but but his radical alt reich talking heads know more about vaccines than those dumb 'ol scientists...after the vax gets FDA approval it will be interesting to see where their puppet masters take them

[huckbucket]

If you can show me a 2-3 year out evidence that this vaccine won’t have any side effects on anyone; awesome! I’d love to see it.

THIS is what you want to see? No side effects on any population? By that standard, none of the vaccines would pass your bar today, even under EUA.

Are you aware that you're completely incapable of interpreting the results of clinical trials and calculating the benefit/risk? That is, unless you've worked for the FDA, or worked for a drug developer, understand clinical trial design and clinical statistics. Perhaps you also don't appreciate that while the FDA is the approving agency, they lean very heavily on external advisory committees comprised of experts around the world and very often follow their recommendations. For vaccines, that means members of the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC). These are people who would laugh at your rudimentary understanding of vaccine safety testing yet whom the world relies on to "get it right."

Maybe spend some time watching a review so you at least know what you're talking about. And maybe drop the hubris and recognize you don't actually know all that much. Or just double down and ask Lilly if you can conduct a safety review of the plant where they manufacture your Prozac.

[paulster2626]

THIS is what you want to see? No side effects on any population? By that standard, none of the vaccines would pass your bar today, even under EUA.

Are you aware that you're completely incapable of interpreting the results of clinical trials and calculating the benefit/risk? That is, unless you've worked for the FDA, or worked for a drug developer, understand clinical trial design and clinical statistics. Perhaps you also don't appreciate that while the FDA is the approving agency, they lean very heavily on external advisory committees comprised of experts around the world and very often follow their recommendations. For vaccines, that means members of the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC). These are people who would laugh at your rudimentary understanding of vaccine safety testing yet whom the world relies on to "get it right."

Maybe spend some time watching a review so you at least know what you're talking about. And maybe drop the hubris and recognize you don't actually know all that much. Or just double down and ask Lilly if you can conduct a safety review of the plant where they manufacture your Prozac.

Yoooooo, that video is like 8 hours long and seems SUPER boring. Do you have anything distilled in to, say, a 4 minute youtube video with big text on the screen that I can absorb the next time I have a bowel movement? Thanksinadvance.

[huckbucket]

Yoooooo, that video is like 8 hours long and seems SUPER boring. Do you have anything distilled in to, say, a 4 minute youtube video with big text on the screen that I can absorb the next time I have a bowel movement? Thanksinadvance.

That's the point. This ain't McFDA.

[XXX-er]

ya but bob in the lunch room sez ...

[Adolf Allerbush]

If you can show me a 2-3 year out evidence that this vaccine won’t have any side effects on anyone; awesome! I’d love to see it. These vaccines haven’t even been out that long and to say that we actually know how they could/will effect us in a couple years is literally guessing.

We don’t have any long term data and I’m sorry if I don’t think the government has the best interest of the people at their forefront currently.

So you want 2-3 years of testing on a vaccine before you will ever consider putting it in your body? What do you recommend doing in the mean time during a global pandemic where the virus is mutating and could become more infectious and/or deadly?

Second, let's say you get what you've asked for, 2-3 years of some clinical study of maybe 25K participants, what then? And how is that better than seeing the results of a vaccine administered to hundreds of millions of people worldwide to gain an understanding?

Like others have said, you're never going to have a vaccine with zero side effects on anyone. That's an impossibly high bar to clear.