ON3P SKIS Discussion

[phatty]

I just ordered these:


Attachment 381004





[emoji3]

Dang, that's the one I was leaning towards. May have to get the other Wren graphic so we avoid having twinsies at the entrance to Lot 4. [emoji6]

[jackattack]

Dang, that's the one I was leaning towards. May have to get the other Wren graphic so we avoid having twinsies at the entrance to Lot 4. [emoji6]

fraternal twins

[bearcub69]

I'm sure this will be addressed in the near future, but here's what I'm wondering. Is the Woodsman 96 coming back? Stock or custom only? If custom order, does it have the same core changes made to the rest of the WD line?

Was waiting to ask this question til the site was finished, but curious if this would be the case for the J96, and all other sticks that are custom options but not listed outside of custom?

[jackattack]

So while I think it probably turns on a dime, I don’t yet have confidence that it can stop on a dime. And the key to going fast in a forest is the ability to stop.

The key to going fast in the forest is to look ahead and shred.

Sack up or hold out, there’s no way to convince you until you get them on your feet.

[adrenalated]

Was waiting to ask this question til the site was finished, but curious if this would be the case for the J96, and all other sticks that are custom options but not listed outside of custom?

Pretty sure everything under 100mm is custom only, save maybe one straight park ski.

[AEvospace]

I want to buy a custom Woodsman 110 right now. I got the cash (barely, just got my check from Toyota), but I can't get a grasp on this ski's firm snow performance. Wildcat 108 too light, Wildcat 118 too wide. Other ski I'm debating is the 192 Cochise 106, I want a daily driver that can charge and pivot, and jib a little.

Anyone skied the old Viciks or Wrens, and also the Woodsman 108? How do the Woodsman do on firm?

Viciks and 191 Wrens had plenty of grip for me on firm snow, never had an issue. In fact I never felt the need for thinner skis with those. However, I had Jeffrey 114, Kartel 108 and Kartel 116s, and those didn't work with my biomechanics on firm snow.

Blister gear review of the Woodsman says they'd take it over the Wildcats in firmer snow, because of how damp and stable it is. But then in their Winter gear guide they rate it worst on ice for the all mountain more stable section. I'm super confused.

[Brasso]

Ice is the only place I wouldn't want to be on ON3Ps. YMMV, I know everyone has their own opinions on this. Have you considered something like the Volkl M102 or K108?

I am also picking coins out of the couch for a custom WD108, knowing full well that I wouldn't ever touch them on a very firm day.

[AEvospace]

I'm just looking for a daily driver, and Squaw is pretty variable. Soft, Hard, Slush, Refrozen. Chop. Chunk. Funk. A lot of the time all in the same day.. All winter long. I have thinner and wider skis, but need something to do everything, including west coast style ice.

[optics]

Seems like you want a comp ski.

Why not try the wren 110?

[AEvospace]

Seems like you want a comp ski.

Why not try the wren 110?

I'm sure they are enough ski in every other sense, but the 186cm length is just slightly out of range for what I'm looking for.

I had some super beefy 191 Wren 115 comp things before that I loved. I think ChugachJ has them now. They weren't exceptional in moguls, but they worked, unlike my current chargers LP105.

[phatty]

I'm just looking for a daily driver, and Squaw is pretty variable. Soft, Hard, Slush, Refrozen. Chop. Chunk. Funk. A lot of the time all in the same day.. All winter long. I have thinner and wider skis, but need something to do everything, including west coast style ice.

I know it was mentioned in the Dynastar thread and this is the ON3P thread, but get a 192 MFree 108. Does everything you mention and is the best daily driver I've had in years. I'm at Alpental so I know daily snow variability and I used the MFree every day that I wasn't out on my BGs.

[kid-kapow]

Was waiting to ask this question til the site was finished, but curious if this would be the case for the J96, and all other sticks that are custom options but not listed outside of custom?

The entire line has not dropped yet. The Jessie, Mera and Crushing Cans (Meeks custom top sheet) slots are not shown yet. J96s will be custom only for 2022 - I asked Iggy a while back.

I want to buy a custom Woodsman 110 right now.

My first gen Woodsman108s are strong on groomers imho, not as in carvers but strong as in very predictable and lots of grip. The original version is pretty chargy too, if perhaps not Cochise type chargy. Wren110pros fill that slot. And while Wren110pros are perhaps shorter than some other skis you've been on in the past, look at that effective edge - they are a lot more ski than say wren108s. They are not jibby though. Caphill has provided very informative feedback on em in this thread.

M Free 108s are great skis as well, even if I can only speak to 182s. 182s are a fair bit softer and more forgiving than Woods108s. Hell, Wood108tour 182s have a stiffer flex in the front ski from the binding to the contact point than M Free 108s does imho (you can drive W108ts harder from my experience - that is, you can drive MF shovels hard as well, but they have a very different feel due to their softer flex - MFs obviously have way more mass than the tours), while both are about equally forgiving and easy to ski in soft snow (back ski feels very similar in soft snow, but where the back ski of MF is slightly better on hard snow, at least for my lower weight self). MF108s do have this particular feel though - best described as smooth, which some people like, some people do not like. Like - the ski is primarily made of PU. There's several mags who absolutely love the 192s though - heavier guys who are much better skiers than me, so it could be the way to go.


Wildcat108s are also great and are somewhere between the original Wood108 and M-Free. While Wood108s and Wildcat108s have grown more alike wrt weight, the mount point on Wood108s has migrated further back - so the new 110 is perhaps a tad more for directional skiers. I suspect they are equally conducive to jibbbing. Wildcat108s are strong on groomers, but Woods are looser in soft snow from what I can recall. I prefer Wildcats to MFs, though Woodsman is my preferred option of the three.

I do not know if the new 110 can be ordered with titanal or not to turn the dial to 11, though to be fair - I've never felt that the first gen 108s lacked any grip on hard snow or was not damp / chargy enough.

Also keep in mind that the Woodsman version Blister tested and the current one are a bit different. There have been quite a few changes made to the ski - flex pattern, width, sidecut and mount point. Too bad you did not buy the first gen ones that were for sale in the leftover sale - I suspect that you would have really liked that version of the ski.

So in summery, all are great skis, if all slightly different - buy the one that make you the most stoked.

[gaijin]

Just fuckn buy them so you can know. Ski them for a week, then decide. Sell them if they're not your jam. No they are not the same as your ten year old Rens and never will be.

This should have ended all replies to my bitchy voice. I don't know why I over-think things.

All I can say is I wish I’d sold my rens on day one and just bought the BG because it’s 1000x better in every single way

This was brutal to read. But I believe you.

gaijin, worry not - the rocker lines are very gradual in person - especially out front which is pretty damned similar to Renegades - and the BG's ability to shred variable is down to the golden triangle of weight, damp construction and relatively straight shape. Remember, those 187s are as long as most other brands 190 skis.

Below you'll find a comparison between the current Renegade depicted at 4FRNT.com (blue) and the new BG (grey), depicted on ON3Pskis.com, unsure what lenght in both. The red lines are where 4FRNT mark the starting point of the tail/nose rocker zones, and they are pretty damned similar to the BG's contact points. BGs have less splay out front - if still ample - and the difference out back is not very large. So I would not sweat it, especially as the BG more than likely is stiffer than said Rens.

Attachment 380960

I do not think I fucked up the scaling when making this, but feel free to experiment to double check. PP ftw.

And yes, they stop plenty fast enough. That is what happens when you combine a big surface area with a substantial / stiff flex pattern in a ski that pivots effortlessly - controling speed is damned easy. It is why they are so intutive and cofidence inspiring to ski in in more demanding terrain - you know you can cope with whatever come your way.

Also, Poon2oons are somewhat noodles up front compared to BGs, so they will not behave the same at speed. Like, both will be loose in soft snow, but BGs will absolutely outperform Pon2oons by miles in a back to back comparison in variable - like, there should be no comparison. I know that you were not making the comparison, but extrapolating your experience from Pon2oons to being indicative of how BGs will ski based on a rocker line will do you no favors in this case. (yes, the more appropriate comparison will be C+D, but still, their stiffer back ski should give them the edge at speed in variable on said K2s as well)
Attachment 381009Attachment 381010
Yeah, I know this is the third(?) time I've posted this photo recently, but try to translate how that shape and relative stiffness will translate to deep snow performance, especially in drier snow. It seems like an ok match to me, though I've never skied Japow. Besides, 33 degrees ain't abrupt out front, nor is 27 out back (if slacker than some the stiffer flex makes up for it).

Kid-Kapow, you are a legend. The rocker profiles you are adding are not of this world. This level of conversation did not exist 5 years ago. You are providing data and imagery that is rock-star status. Holy Shit. Thank you.

Man. Regarding stopping; there’s a huge group here skiing steep, deep, consequential terrain with sheer cliffs and huge trees that would put you in the hospital here in the PNW. And we’re buying BGs over and over - lining up to pay top dollar on customs. Figure it out

I am figuring it out. Thanks to you all.

TGR has grown up. You guys aren't beating the shit out of me for being such a goober. Props, peeps. I definitely see my next ski.

[sf]

This should have ended all replies to my bitchy voice. I don't know why I over-think things.


This was brutal to read. But I believe you.



Kid-Kapow, you are a legend. The rocker profiles you are adding are not of this world. This level of conversation did not exist 5 years ago. You are providing data and imagery that is rock-star status. Holy Shit. Thank you.


I am figuring it out. Thanks to you all.

TGR has grown up. You guys aren't beating the shit out of me for being such a goober. Props, peeps. I definitely see my next ski.

Hey, just to mess with you: why don't you get the C&D? It's floaty AF

[TAFKALVS]

This should have ended all replies to my bitchy voice. I don't know why I over-think things.


This was brutal to read. But I believe you.



Kid-Kapow, you are a legend. The rocker profiles you are adding are not of this world. This level of conversation did not exist 5 years ago. You are providing data and imagery that is rock-star status. Holy Shit. Thank you.


I am figuring it out. Thanks to you all.

TGR has grown up. You guys aren't beating the shit out of me for being such a goober. Props, peeps. I definitely see my next ski.

Just to bookend the encouragement... the Billygoat is the best tree and storm day ski I've been on, and it allows you to ski at a pace in trees on skis you wouldn't otherwise consider.

Unlike the Renegade, the Billygoat is fun and floaty in lower angle terrain or at slower speeds. While you certainly still get more performance at higher speeds, its not tip divey or weird to try and balance on while you get them "on plane".

I put a lot of days on a pair of older 191s, and intend on picking up a set of the new 192s later this year. I've tried a ton of different pow skis and the Billygoat is hands down the best pow ski I've owned. There are certainly other pow skis out there that fit very specific conditions but the Billygoat kills it from 3" to 3'.

[kid-kapow]

TThe rocker profiles you are adding are not of this world.

Interestingly, the guy who I think make those illustrations - or the measurements behind em anyway - is Endre Hals, ake Mr. www.eviskis.com. He had more than a bit to do with the creation of Hoji's skis too, so you should thank him, not me.

The other one was just a bit of screen grabs and compilation. I thought the shapes were somewhat similar, so I wanted to check. I am glad to hear it was of some use.

I really like those graphical summaries of lots of data - especially the flex profiles (way better than Blister's notorious 10 underfoot score ), much more so than their / FriFlyt's written description of said skis (even if the ones they did this past year were better than expected).

Also, interestingly Blister's description of BGs in their Buyers Guide highlights their suitability for the type of skiing that I thought was typical of Japow skiing - tree skiing (they even write tight trees, though that is not something I associate with Japow) and mellower terrain where you need lots of float.

Though to be fair, with all the BG hype going on in the last few pages said BGs will have a lot to live up to

[Doremite]

I want to buy a custom Woodsman 110 right now. I got the cash (barely, just got my check from Toyota), but I can't get a grasp on this ski's firm snow performance. Wildcat 108 too light, Wildcat 118 too wide. Other ski I'm debating is the 192 Cochise 106, I want a daily driver that can charge and pivot, and jib a little.

Anyone skied the old Viciks or Wrens, and also the Woodsman 108? How do the Woodsman do on firm?

Viciks and 191 Wrens had plenty of grip for me on firm snow, never had an issue. In fact I never felt the need for thinner skis with those. However, I had Jeffrey 114, Kartel 108 and Kartel 116s, and those didn't work with my biomechanics on firm snow.

Blister gear review of the Woodsman says they'd take it over the Wildcats in firmer snow, because of how damp and stable it is. But then in their Winter gear guide they rate it worst on ice for the all mountain more stable section. I'm super confused.

OG 192cm W108s just popped up in gearswap. Check ‘em out at a lower $ entry point. I’d think this would be a great Squaw daily and interesting blend of playful chargyness. It’s an ever so slightly toned down (modern pre Ti) Wren with very little downside in comparison. ymmv

[undertow2]

OG 192cm W108s just popped up in gearswap. Check ‘em out at a lower entry point.

Thanks D - never not mounted a pair of ON3Ps before and sold but ended up going custom Woods 102 which I wanted for daily driver and traveling…


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Doremite]

Thanks D - never not mounted a pair of ON3Ps before and sold but ended up going custom Woods 102 which I wanted for daily driver and traveling…


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Interested in the 102s too despite having 96s and 108s. I can rationalize needing a middle ground from time to time. Skiing the East the 108 is a wide platform (and I like wide skis). Just skis fat to me for some reason. Mostly on the 96s (or Wren 98). I imagine the 102 near perfect daily leaving <100 for mostly groomer days and my 108s for pow.

[tuco]

Wish they were the 116s

[eskido]

you are now living proof that a TGR skier can use Markers and not die.

He gon die

[CAPHILL]

I'm sure they are enough ski in every other sense, but the 186cm length is just slightly out of range for what I'm looking for.

Spent about 25 days on the Wren 110 Pros last season. After blowing up some 188 black crows Corvus (I’m hard on skis/gear, but ya those skis are softtttt) i was concerned about going from 192-188 for my daily’s to a 186cm. Whatever, glad I pulled the trigger as I found I really shouldn’t be concerned. At 186 the wrens felt immensely more chargy and supportive than the BC Corvus they replaced.

27m radius + still tail + long effective edge, ya honestly I wouldn’t want them any longer. Their length is nice in techy, exposure as well. Solitude Fantasy Ridge, Big Sky Tram/Couloir, Snowbird Rat Nest, etc. I haven’t skied Squaw, but your describing what I was looking for in the Wren 110 Pro. The taper is GREAT for mixed conditions and not caring, just railing, no matter the conditions. It’s been my go to for, “hey maybe we’ll get some powder, maybe it’s an avi debris field (straight = nothing to get caught on, does surprising well!), maybe it’s icey AF… whatever let’s have fun.

The Wren 110 Pros have no concept of jibby.

To put it in perspective, I’m currently trying to decide what flavor of 110 BG to get to complement the 193 SG +1.5 and 186 Wren 110 Pro. It’s going to be different, but the Wren 110 Pro proved itself as the center of my quiver for whatever day I’m grateful to be in the mountains. I’m not looking at the BG in the same “fuck it” perspective I look at the Wren 110 Pros in.

[CAPHILL]

Trying to decide what flavor of Custom BG to go with.

Here’s the current ON3P quiver:
- 193 SG 118 +1.5 w/ Pivot 15
- 186 Wren 110 w/ Pivot 15
- 184 Steeple 103 w/ Hagan Core 10 Pure

These would be mounted with CAST and used as “go to” for exploring backcountry around resorts, mixed days where we’re doing some lift-assisted that requires skiing out/back, or generally a do-anything/have fun ski when conditions are not more aligned with the Wren 110 Pros IDGAF attitude. I’m getting tripped out because there was a period where I was skiing the “mini-BG” the 184 Steeple 103 in-bounds for a few months. For the tour core it has, it was freaking great! Hitting doubles, smashing into variable, smearing chopped up powder. It was a bit of a wonderkid for being a touring ski. This is giving me confidence that the 50/50 is going to be pretty dang great, especially hearing ON3P shop team members sometimes now skiing only 50/50 skis. I would be paring these with some Lange Freetour 130 (or maybe the new XT3, shrug).

Would very much appreciate any advice to help close this decision and get stoked for the new pair. While this isn’t a dedicated touring ski, I do want to position it as a can do anything ski with the cast, so weight is a secondary concern as more a quality of skiing thought. 75% of its life will be on the downhill. They’re going to get a lot of use in the JHMR backcountry.

- 192 BG 110 50/50
- 187 BG 110 50/50
- 192 BG 110 Stock Layup
- 187 BG 110 Stock Layup

[GBB]

Love the topsheet choice, Norse!

[kid-kapow]

For the tour core it has, it was freaking great!

- 192 BG 110 50/50

Keep in mind that the old tour construction was a milled down version of the standard core with 19oz glass instead of 22oz, whereas the new one is all eh... new.

If weight is of secondary concern then 192 stock seem to be the obvious choice - might as well optimize the setup for the down.

That being said, 192 BG110 in the 50/50 layup will be helluva versatile and compliment the rest of your quiver nicely too. Light enough to tour on for bombing, yet stiff and heavy enough to still do the shape proud. My only reservation with this setup is that this will have a stiffness comparable to your other skis, but not their weight. That could make for some adjusting for variable conditions. I would opt for this setup as I imagine that you will continue to use either Wrens or SG for resort days when it is deep and/or especially difficult conditions.

You could also go 187 stock if you want more nimbleness and to save a bit of weight with a stock setup over the 192 and for easier kick turns, but BGs tours very well as is and are more than nimble enough, so a lower weight stock setup is the only real benefit with this option.

187 50/50 sounds more of a 50/50 setup geared toward touring than 75% downhill when considering the rest of your quiver - even with Cast, and not the use you describe.

All four options will work exceedingly well with XT3s. I have not tried XT Frees, but have lots of days on XT3 130s. Great boot and highly recommended.

And yes, thanks for all the great info wrt Wren110pros. Too big for me, but thanks for sharing the stoke