Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s a gravel road, use some 32 or greater road/utility tires. As far as pedals and shoes go, just get nice flat pedals and a good grippy shoe. There’s is no loss in efficiency and you can jump off your bike and walk around like normal on trails/pavement and in stores.


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[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I’ve had excellent luck with WTB Byways on mixed surfaces, including some pretty rough roads. I expect WTB Horizon would work with smooth and dry surfaces.

I really enjoy the road plus style tire to allow me to run much lower pressure (40psi and below) which evens out gravel roads and provides a lot of comfort.

Have you had any durability issues with the Byway? The 44 Byway is on my list to maybe try when my 42 Pathfinder Pro's need replacing next season, but I've heard anecdotes of the Byway being super easy to flat.

On another strange tire note - I was running 38 Gravelking SS and felt like they were just about as fast as I could get on gravel. But in prep for a long race, I tossed my 42 Pathfinder Pro on and quickly crushed uphill PR's that I had set on the SS just a few weeks prior. I guess the heavier, wider, more comfortable tire is faster uphill because I don't have to choose my line as carefully as I did on the 38 GK SS? Not sure. But I'll take it.

[kalisto]

My expectation would be around 80% road, if it were only gravel I would have spent a lot less. The questions I have are pedals, shoes and tires. For my use why would I use a MTN bike pedal like a shimano XT rather than a road pedal? In a perfect world I'd have two sets of wheels but that's not going to happen right now so I'm looking for a tire (slicks?) that are really good on the road and get the job done on gravel. Any suggestions? Thx.

GravelKing SKs roll great, but obviously a road tire will still roll faster. Like others have said, if it's truely 80/20 and the gravel is hardpacked/dry, just get a wider road tire and call it a day.

If you're ever going to walk, don't get road cleats.

There’s is no loss in efficiency and you can jump off your bike and walk around like normal on trails/pavement and in stores.

uhh... wut?

[kalisto]

Wider is for the most part always faster if you don't account for the increase in drag/weight (so yes, there is a practical limit in where it's actually not faster).

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I wonder what that lmit is? The SS is 130 grams per tire heavier and has less rolling resistance so I figured it would crush the PP on shorter gravel rides, while the PP would be faster on long efforts where comfort comes into play. I'm happy to be proved wrong on that - now I just run the PP for any gravel ride and the GP5000 for mostly road rides. Made my tire choices way easier.

[Peruvian]

Have you had any durability issues with the Byway? The 44 Byway is on my list to maybe try when my 42 Pathfinder Pro's need replacing next season, but I've heard anecdotes of the Byway being super easy to flat.

My Byways are set up tubeless and have taken a beating without any issue. I have read others who said that they had durability problems, but that’s not my experience at all. My only explanation is that I suspect there was a bad batch at some point.

[kalisto]

Yeah it gets pretty nerdy once you get into how much energy is lost in tire deflection and how that changes with pressure and how that is correlates to perceived comfort. Obviously this would be the same tire across different sizes.

but it was kind of more of a general statement that wider != slower, there are a ton of factors and in some cases it can be faster.

[Supermoon]

Have you had any durability issues with the Byway? The 44 Byway is on my list to maybe try when my 42 Pathfinder Pro's need replacing next season, but I've heard anecdotes of the Byway being super easy to flat.

On another strange tire note - I was running 38 Gravelking SS and felt like they were just about as fast as I could get on gravel. But in prep for a long race, I tossed my 42 Pathfinder Pro on and quickly crushed uphill PR's that I had set on the SS just a few weeks prior. I guess the heavier, wider, more comfortable tire is faster uphill because I don't have to choose my line as carefully as I did on the 38 GK SS? Not sure. But I'll take it.

I ran Byways all last summer and had zero flats with a mix of city riding in rough/glassy roads and gravel rides. I set them up tubeless for the glass reasons and overall had great luck with them. I think I got about 10% faster on the road than the knobbies I had in their previously.

[Dumbest Known Time]

Yeah it gets pretty nerdy once you get into how much energy is lost in tire deflection and how that changes with pressure and how that is correlates to perceived comfort. Obviously this would be the same tire across different sizes.

but it was kind of more of a general statement that wider != slower, there are a ton of factors and in some cases it can be faster.

Refills of the wide tire kool-aid are unlimited over at the Rene Herse blog. Just plug "myth" into the search bar and you'll come up with years worth of Jan's pseudoscience ramblings that all lead back to 50s French rando bikes.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth...r-on-the-road/

https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-m...es-are-slower/

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Ha. Their high prices + that blog always made RH tires feel a bit like drinking the kool-aid to me. Maybe they're great though. Although, not that I have any defense, the Specialized Pathfinder Pro 42 I'm running isn't far behind in terms of being a cult tire that's likely not much better than a dozen other options out there.

[jamal]

I would skip the road shoes and pedals on anything other than a pure road bike, and even then plenty of people just use 2-bolt spd stuff. That way you're not chewing up your cleats and sliding around off the bike.

I have those shimano RX8 gravel shoes and they're pretty good. Stiff, light, minimal treads on the bottom, the nice boa dial that goes both directions. Not great for hike a bike or cyclocross, and a touch on the narrow side but there's a wide version. It's a pretty marginal difference between those shoes on xt pedals and my fancy road s-phyres and dura ace pedals.

For tires a 30-35 tubeless slick would be my choice. gp5k, gravel king, corsa control, etc. Or even something like the terreno zero in 35.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

GravelKing SKs roll great, but obviously a road tire will still roll faster. Like others have said, if it's truely 80/20 and the gravel is hardpacked/dry, just get a wider road tire and call it a day.

If you're ever going to walk, don't get road cleats.



uhh... wut?

Google it. There’s more than one study that disproves clipless is more efficient in all but the most elite road cyclists. It’s been discussed in this thread I think.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

I wonder what that lmit is? The SS is 130 grams per tire heavier and has less rolling resistance so I figured it would crush the PP on shorter gravel rides, while the PP would be faster on long efforts where comfort comes into play. I'm happy to be proved wrong on that - now I just run the PP for any gravel ride and the GP5000 for mostly road rides. Made my tire choices way easier.

Wider bicycle tires have less rolling resistance than narrow tires on most surfaces other than completely smooth boards or asphalt.


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[greenmachine]

Great feedback thanks. So what is optimal width 35-38 or 40+ for my purpose ?


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[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Google it. There’s more than one study that disproves clipless is more efficient in all but the most elite road cyclists. It’s been discussed in this thread I think.

First off, we're all elite here

Second, if (summed up fairly well here) the studies done on this don't take sprinting or climbing into account I don't think the conclusion means only elite road bikers need clipless. I think all that really suggests is that flats offer the same efficiency for recreational road/gravel bikers who don't care about going fast or climbing. But that video's a bit old so maybe there's new data out there?

Great feedback thanks. So what is optimal width 35-38 or 40+ for my purpose ?

Honestly, I don't think we know enough to tell you something that specific. Are you racing or taking it easy, is your gravel smooth or is it beat up forest service roads, does it rain a lot where you live or bone dry, etc? Not saying you have to answer all that - just that tire size/tread takes a lot of data. I'd probably just look into all the models suggested here and pull the trigger on whatever's in stock. In the end, you're probably talking about a very small % difference in comfort or speed between most of these. Of course if you really want to nerd out there's always this option.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The reason for clips and straps/clipless for performance riding was to keep your feet on the pedals it has nothing to do with climbing or sprinting efficiency. They’ve measured elite cyclists and they don’t pull up on the pedals and you don’t need to be attached to spin circles. Again for anyone on this forum there’s no gain from clipless


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[TheEleven]

Great feedback thanks. So what is optimal width 35-38 or 40+ for my purpose ?


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FWIW, I use 38 GK Slick+ for ~75% road and have zero complaints. Use higher pressure on full road rides and then lower em down a bit when I plan to find some gravel. Thinking about moving up to 43, but enjoying the 38's for now.

[kalisto]

First off, we're all elite here

Second, if (summed up fairly well here) the studies done on this don't take sprinting or climbing into account I don't think the conclusion means only elite road bikers need clipless. I think all that really suggests is that flats offer the same efficiency for recreational road/gravel bikers who don't care about going fast or climbing. But that video's a bit old so maybe there's new data out there?



Honestly, I don't think we know enough to tell you something that specific. Are you racing or taking it easy, is your gravel smooth or is it beat up forest service roads, does it rain a lot where you live or bone dry, etc? Not saying you have to answer all that - just that tire size/tread takes a lot of data. I'd probably just look into all the models suggested here and pull the trigger on whatever's in stock. In the end, you're probably talking about a very small % difference in comfort or speed between most of these. Of course if you really want to nerd out there's always this option.

Minor detail that the video seemed to miss entirely... It's not really just about the ability to pull up during a pedal cycle.

Where does your power from your leg come from? Say you have a beer can on the ground, what's the easiest way to crush that can, toes? mid-food? arch? heel?

The problem with cycling is that everyone learns to pedal on flats, so naturally, we all push through the forefoot as to keep our feet on the pedals. The problem with this is that we are trying to translate downward force through the femur, across your foot, and into the pedal. Your limiting factor at this point is how much power your foot can support (which is less than what your leg can produce at max).

The reason why expensive cycling shoes cost a lot is weight/stiffness, why does stiffness matter? It allows you to push more power through the heel, and translate that into the pedal coming down as well. Watch the best TT specialists, look at their foot position on the downstroke. Try to mimic that position without cleats? good fucking luck.

Sure there's a bunch of studies saying pulling up doesn't matter as much as you think, and everyone already knows that. Most of us probably don't even pull up enough to not be pushing against ourself (if you're skeptical, hop on buddy's bike with a power meter and look at the torque efficiency, doubt any of you are at 100%). edit: what is torque efficiency? https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blo...dal-smoothness

Fact is, being clipped is isn't just about your feet going up and down, but more about how to go down in an optimal position to produce power.

So... no, going on flats is NOT the same as clips. If you have poor pedalling technique, or lack insight into how to produce power... sure, but as a blanket statement that is absolutely not correct.

[HankScorpio]

I’ve been neglecting by gravel bike a bit so I’ve decided to upgrade its tired old drivetrain/brakes. I have a newish 11 speed GX cassette and 40t GRX crank so I’m shopping for a 1 x 11 drop bar shifter/brake set up.

I’m having a hell of a time finding a front brake and an 11 speed brake/shifter that’s in stock and not insanely expensive. I’m open to mid-level GRX or mid level SRAM. Just looking for recs on what folks are using.

I’m a mtber who’s a bit ignorant when it comes to drop bar set ups. How’s the SRAM gear compared to Shimano GRX? Is Apex level too shitty? Does the regular Shimano road stuff hold up for gravel?


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[kalisto]

If you're trying to go budget. 11 speed road stuff with cable discs. The left lever will still move, but I think you can jam it or just let it be.

I'm a big Shimano fan, GRX stuff has been great, but like you said, sourcing stuff will be hard.

105 r7000 is also great. might be easier to source shifters?

[HankScorpio]

If you're trying to go budget. 11 speed road stuff with cable discs. The left lever will still move, but I think you can jam it or just let it be.

I'm a big Shimano fan, GRX stuff has been great, but like you said, sourcing stuff will be hard.

105 r7000 is also great. might be easier to source shifters?

I went a little nuts today and dug out some old-ish XT calipers then ordered some GRX levers. Matching them seems pretty straightforward. Just need an 11 speed XT or SLX derailleur and I should be all set.

Finding the levers took some serious internet digging. They were pricey but not awful considering I already had calipers.


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[kalisto]

I went a little nuts today and dug out some old-ish XT calipers then ordered some GRX levers. Matching them seems pretty straightforward. Just need an 11 speed XT or SLX derailleur and I should be all set.


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brakes will work great. you'll need a road rear derailleur though. pull ratios are different.

what's the cassette range?

you can also get an XT derailleur and use a wolftooth tanpan or J-tek shiftmate. I used one for a bit with the same setup as you (grx shifters with XT rear derailleur). ended up switching to grx derailleur.

[climberevan]

I have a couple of jtek shift mate pulleys if anyone needs one. The ones I have convert campy lever cable pull for Shimano derailleurs. Idk of that's what you'd need in this situation.

[chaka]

I dont really care what studies there may be... my personal experience is that clipless is wayyyyy better for climbing, going fast vs flat. Not even a comparison really, for me. If you are going on an adventure ride with lots of off bike, walking etc then sure flats + comfy shoes. And sure, I'm 'elite' like everyone else here...

[huckbucket]

Clipless can mean shoes with solid soles. Ergo ... better power transfer. Agree with Chaka. Not sure how this is debatable.