4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

[waveshello]

Looks like the camera angle is amplifying the rocker line.

I remember that angle from myspace.

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[gaijin]

Lay it flat on the floor, or a table, and take the pic from that level. Because I gotta say, that pic looks scary. And to read 4Frnt write that they took the same tip rocker from the renegade, which is a pow ski, to make the Hoji better simply makes me wonder why I would want this Hoji between my 122 and my 102.

Eric, establish your own line. 4Frnt is generalizing your identity for mass sales. Establish your own line. Cater to those who want Eric’s skis. Keep your overhead low. Charge premium. Keep it real. Stay true.

[4FRNT_Skis]

We took what we learned from the updated rocker line from the Renegade and Raven and ADAPTED IT to make it work on the Hoji. The Hoji hasn't been touched in years and Eric and Bob had learned alot from the updates to the other skis in Eric's line. This is all Eric's work. If you think we are in a "boardroom" making these decisions you're crazy and don't have any idea what is going on behind the scenes here. We have 2 full time employees, so we use Eric, Bob Boice (who has been engineering our skis for YEARS) and our team making ALL of our product development decisions. Eric wanted to update the Hoji. He never skied the old one because he didn't think it skied well and now he's been on the new one all season. It's crazy that you think we are generalizing our product as we are one of the few brands out here making niche product. Press a pause button on your internet gossip and hating, the very few of us here at 4FRNT are working our asses off to maintain the ethos that 4FRNT was based on. ***end rant

PS sorry for one shitty photo...i get it

[XavierD]

Any changes to the renegade for next year?

[waveshello]

Perspective is everything; this:

Looks like a much more extreme rocker profile than this:

Ski does look flatter underfoot? That 4th picture would be perfect if we could see the whole ski in the frame.

Anyways thank you for the update and engagement. Interesting to hear that Eric wasn't spending time on his namesake ski, though I got the impression he wasn't in love with it from various interviews I heard.

Glad to hear that this version might get his full stamp of approval, but that doesn't mean it's going to please fans of the OG renegade or other white room skis... Eric himself mentioned that he thinks the newer versions of the Ren are better in every way (paraphrasing).



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[mr_pretzel]

Don’t worry 4frnt marketing man, I’m still going to buy them

But I’m still going to keep reminiscing about the older white room skis and the EHP.

[gaijin]

You’re right, 4Frnt. I was being a keyboard dick. Apologies. Not trying to hate.

It’s my favorite ski and brand. So I’m a stubborn old git scared of changes.




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[stealurface831]

We took what we learned from the updated rocker line from the Renegade and Raven and ADAPTED IT to make it work on the Hoji. The Hoji hasn't been touched in years and Eric and Bob had learned alot from the updates to the other skis in Eric's line. This is all Eric's work. If you think we are in a "boardroom" making these decisions you're crazy and don't have any idea what is going on behind the scenes here. We have 2 full time employees, so we use Eric, Bob Boice (who has been engineering our skis for YEARS) and our team making ALL of our product development decisions. Eric wanted to update the Hoji. He never skied the old one because he didn't think it skied well and now he's been on the new one all season. It's crazy that you think we are generalizing our product as we are one of the few brands out here making niche product. Press a pause button on your internet gossip and hating, the very few of us here at 4FRNT are working our asses off to maintain the ethos that 4FRNT was based on. ***end rant

first off, props to you guys for what you do. i can't wait to get on my new to me 2016 Hojis and Rens next season.

i'd be interested to hear more specifically what hoji's gripes were with previous iterations.

[RadSkier_]

Eric wanted to update the Hoji. He never skied the old one because he didn't think it skied well and now he's been on the new one all season. It's crazy that you think we are generalizing our product as we are one of the few brands out here making niche product.]

I don’t get why he would approve of his name being on the Hoji if he never liked skiing it. How are we to believe that he is involved in the whole process if that is the case? And furthermore why tell us this? It makes no sense from a marketing standpoint.

I really like 4Frnt but they make some really weird decisions.

[Mustonen]

I don’t get why he would approve of his name being on the Hoji if he never liked skiing it. How are we to believe that he is involved in the whole process if that is the case? And furthermore why tell us this? It makes no sense from a marketing standpoint.

I really like 4Frnt but they make some really weird decisions.

I appreciate the disclosure. I always wonder what of these skis Hoji and others ski, and at what lengths, and what they think of them. It’s not like the Hoji hasn’t been a really popular ski.

I’m firmly on the side of 4Frnt telling us all the things, even the things we don’t wanna hear. It doesn’t have to all be craven self interest, sometimes we can just talk about honest shit as a community of skiers. Kudos to 4Frnt for participating in that community.

[Tailwind]

I don’t think it’s new knowledge that the Hoji was a toned down version of the other skis in the line. It also sits at an approachable waist width for a lot of skiers.

The Hoji was likely the best selling ski in the line because it caters to the average ‘expert’ skier more than the Renegade. So why not use Hoji ‘s name as a selling point to pull over some people from the big brands?

also... if I was a better skier and had a pro model that I was going to ski... I wouldn’t want my name on it. That just seems weird.

I don’t get why he would approve of his name being on the Hoji if he never liked skiing it. How are we to believe that he is involved in the whole process if that is the case? And furthermore why tell us this? It makes no sense from a marketing standpoint.

I really like 4Frnt but they make some really weird decisions.

[XavierD]

My take was the Hoji was always an attempt to make a Renegade which sold better by being under 115 which seems to be a magic number for many consumers. It seems like it was thrown together with applying the gross concepts of the Renegade but with little refinement or proofing. Reflect tech works with long radius’s not shorter ones. But then consumers liked it or atleast told themselves they did and kept buying so it never really got the attention of the Raven or Renegade which it appears Hoji spends most of his time skiing. I know folks who love the Raven and Renegade but hated the Hoji.

[waveshello]

My take was the Hoji was always an attempt to make a Renegade which sold better by being under 115 which seems to be a magic number for many consumers. It seems like it was thrown together with applying the gross concepts of the Renegade but with little refinement or proofing. Reflect tech works with long radius’s not shorter ones. But then consumers liked it or atleast told themselves they did and kept buying so it never really got the attention of the Raven or Renegade which it appears Hoji spends most of his time skiing. I know folks who love the Raven and Renegade but hated the Hoji.

The Blister and Gear30 podcasts that Eric or other 4frnt denizens are featured in shed some light on all of this.

[RadSkier_]

I don’t think it’s new knowledge that the Hoji was a toned down version of the other skis in the line. It also sits at an approachable waist width for a lot of skiers.

The Hoji was likely the best selling ski in the line because it caters to the average ‘expert’ skier more than the Renegade. So why not use Hoji ‘s name as a selling point to pull over some people from the big brands?

also... if I was a better skier and had a pro model that I was going to ski... I wouldn’t want my name on it. That just seems weird.

It's the equivalent of Michael Jordan not wearing his signature shoe and wearing a different Nike shoe, or to keep it relative to ski, Candide Thovex skiing the Faction Prodigy line when he has a signature CT line with the company. I want to ski the ski that Hoji thinks makes him the best skier on the mountain carry his namesake and 4Frnt should market it similar to how Faction does with Candide: The CT 5.0 is his go-to, but if you don't ski the same terrain or like you ski to be skinnier then you can ski the CT3.0, CT 2.0, CT 1.0 which are all great skis but for different applications.

Instead they put his name on a ski he has always thought sucked, and he himself skis a different ski. It makes zero sense from a marketing perspective. It creates confusion for consumers and is just a bad business decision. At least call the Renagade, Raven, etc as being part of the Hoji line or something along those lines and make it clear what his "go-to" ski is. Marketing 101!

And while I appreciate transparency, I'd rather better product control. The better approach for a company is to not release inferior products and instead approach it with "We believed in this product all along and have now made this product even better!" instead of 4frnt release some good skis and some so-so ones and saying "ya, we were iffy on this one in the past but we still put it out there. But this year it's solid, promise!"

And the comment about not wanting your name on the ski you ski is so dumb. There is a reason why all the star athletes across all sports all have signature equipment that they use with their names on it. And for skis it's why Candid Thovex, Sammy Carlson, Chris Benchetler and all the rest do as well....

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It's the equivalent of Michael Jordan not wearing his signature shoe and wearing a different Nike shoe, or to keep it relative to ski, Candide Thovex skiing the Faction Prodigy line when he has a signature CT line with the company. I want to ski the ski that Hoji thinks makes him the best skier on the mountain carry his namesake and 4Frnt should market it similar to how Faction does with Candide: The CT 5.0 is his go-to, but if you don't ski the same terrain or like you ski to be skinnier then you can ski the CT3.0, CT 2.0, CT 1.0 which are all great skis but for different applications.

Instead they put his name on a ski he has always thought sucked, and he himself skis a different ski. It makes zero sense from a marketing perspective. It creates confusion for consumers and is just a bad business decision. At least call the Renagade, Raven, etc as being part of the Hoji line or something along those lines and make it clear what his "go-to" ski is. Marketing 101!

And while I appreciate transparency, I'd rather better product control. The better approach for a company is to not release inferior products and instead approach it with "We believed in this product all along and have now made this product even better!" instead of 4frnt release some good skis and some so-so ones and saying "ya, we were iffy on this one in the past but we still put it out there. But this year it's solid, promise!"

And the comment about not wanting your name on the ski you ski is so dumb. There is a reason why all the star athletes across all sports all have signature equipment that they use with their names on it. And for skis it's why Candid Thovex, Sammy Carlson, Chris Benchetler and all the rest do as well....

You’re rad


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[gaijin]

Did I start this shit-show? Goddamnit. Sorry.

Anyway, the profile pics on the table look better, flatter. Still too much tail rocker for me in a 112, but what do I know? I haven't skied it. Seems like a more nimble Renegade for Japan's forests. Seems like something I might like as a resort pow ski.

Hard to fathom needing something more nimble than my '13 HALS Owls, though. I know Eric keeps saying the new Renegade is better in every way. I believe him. But it's hard to imagine. I have never ever wanted my Renegade to be softer. I have never ever wanted more rocker. I have never ever wanted a tighter radius.

So, to then copy the new Ren in a narrower waist (AKA, the new Hoji) I just have trouble understanding why I would need it. I literally cannot justify it as I already have a really rad HALS Owl that is insanely easy to ski fast and shut down in the absolute tightest and deepest of environments-- Japan forests.

And every time I think of my next touring rig, I debate between Hoji and Raven, and the Raven always wins for my quiver.

A quiver-of-one? Yeah-- Maybe the Hoji with CAST makes sense. But now we're in MFree 108 territory, Blaze 106. There are a lot.

Here is the deciding moment-- Do you want your 1-ski quiver to be reverse camber?

For Japan, a Hoji/CAST would be a dope 1-ski quiver. For New Zealand or Europe? Hmmm.. I hate reverse camber on icy ridge lines above exposure. Even Tahoe would push me out of Hoji territory.

[kid-kapow]

leaving the self inflicted marketing debacle above to one side, I agree that the rework of the Hoji makes a ton of sense.

I actually really liked the current / 2018 version, but it was a bit of an odd one quiver wise. It skied much shorter than its 187 length would indicate (I mean, if I at 175cm ski the 187s, then what length does the big boys ski?) and found it to be fun, slarvy and liked to pop off stuff while being surprisingly fun on hard snow. It was not terribly confidence inspiring in dense variable at speed using anything but a dynamic skiing style with full on commitment (pop over those death cookies!), or crusty snow due to the length out back, softer front ski and straight shape - but all in all I really enjoyed them.

I am really curious how the new version will be on harder snow and variable. I found Ravens to be a blast in soft snow, but ended up really disliking them in harder/shallower conditions (and since I do not buy 104mm skis to ski powder they had to go).

So I can't wait to see more feedback on how a redesigned Hoji that is designed as a DD for snow rich locations / and pow ski for less snow rich conditions that is more aligned within the Raven-Ren spectrum skis. The new profile looks really promising, especially in the new 184 length.

The new version depicted above sure is more similar to the Raven than the outgoing Hoji:


So keep up the great work 4FRNT - your skis def fills a niche, especially the lineup designed by/with Hoji for snow rich locations So thanks for the update and transparency.

[jacob_dbu]

Anyone know the weight on the new 184 Hoji?

[XavierD]

Anyone know the weight on the new 184 Hoji?

Both too heavy, and too light; depending on which knucklehead you talk to.

[HAB]

Lost an OG 186 today. Skiing a line that fed into a slight gully, caught a shark and ski ejected. I tumbled a little, my sluff caught up, and the ski was gone. 2+ hours of probing with no luck. Guess I'll just have to go back in the spring and hope.

Pretty gutted.

Update: recovered the lost ski, and it's not too much worse for the wear. Edges are rusty of course, and there's some base repair needed but she'll patch up nicely.

Edit: turntable on the binding heel is smoked though. The bent up tap that one of the dildo arms mounts to is bent way out. Unclear if that was the cause or a result of the ejection, but I did think it maybe came off a little more easily than I might have hoped for. Easy enough fix obviously, but makes me wonder...

[gaijin]

Awesome news.

Anyone else notice the new Hoji has 4-lock? Doesn’t look to be an option on the Ren, though. /shrug.


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[waveshello]

Me likey. I need to get my hands on those new Hojis... I've never purchased a ski @ full retail, but this might be the year. Eagerly awaiting full specs--Looks like a great shape for an almost-DD PNW resort ski. + CAST setup and I can imagine doing most of my skiing on that ski. Inclusion of the hoji hole makes me a little nervous that they put it on a diet... let's hope not!

[tang]

Yeah the "first look" is really just a peek.
The weight will be interesting. Last years Ren, Hoj and Raven in ~190 were 2075, 2066, 1850 gr. Although my Ren 191 weighed in at 2020 gr. The new Hoj is the last to be updated, so prob comes in sub 2000. I wish there was more spread in the weights - ie, Ren heavier and Raven lighter, and then the Hoji right around 2000
The Dev and Inthayne are in the same ballpark too. Only the MSPs are ~2200+ now
I have pinged them on a lighter/skinnier spring "mission" version to the Hoji line - say around 1500 ish grams, 90 ish waist, long radius, flat cambered (vs full reverse) + low rocker, low splay. Would be super versatile in all kinds of steep shitty snow that you have to walk/climb miles for. Almost everything in that category now is yes light... but almost always very traditional with rearward mounts, lots of camber and hooky sidecut. Who's laying over tight carves in some tight couloir?

[gramboh]

I hope Hojis stay around 2000... I have 19/20's in 187cm I believe they are 1950g but I didn't weigh them. Would not want them any lighter for a do it all ski (I run Shifts on mine). Curious to see the final specs on the 2022 stuff.

[kc_7777]

I hope Hojis stay around 2000... I have 19/20's in 187cm I believe they are 1950g but I didn't weigh them. Would not want them any lighter for a do it all ski (I run Shifts on mine). Curious to see the final specs on the 2022 stuff.

Also looking forward to the final specs on August 18, 2021. I'm thinking of getting a pair of 184cm Hoji this year for inbounds....mount with STHs I think. We're gonna do 3 weeks in the Kootenays this winter besides Whistler, and hopefully Baker opens....so want a fully rockered ski back in the quiver. Was gonna go Rens but a 184 Hoji more versatile. And at 165lbs I like 112mm in the waist for float.

Also...was conversing in an email with 4FRNT recently and the rec mount on the 2022 184 Hojis is -4.5cm? Which I would like.

K