90% of people buy boots that are too stiff

[Shorty_J]

Can anyone estimate, numerically or generally, how much the flex changes when you remove 1 or both bolts from a tecnica mach1 130 boot?

Even before this thread I was considering going to a softer boot but I'm eyeing a deal on the stiffer flex and I'm trying to get an idea how modifiable they will be.

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[tuco]

Fit like a glove, look like a glove...

Who cares?
Skiing is business time, not a fuckin fashion show!
Just sayin'

[ill-advised strategy]

my pedorthist boot fitter friend

Did he have to go door-to-door and tell everyone he bootfits 8 year olds?

[turnfarmer]

Please. Nobody buy boots with this method. Once in a blue moon will you have to upsize to get instep height but that is so rare. The article doesn't even discuss different volume boots, nor grinding boot boards, molding shells, etc. Lots of boots with high insteps and lots of ways to raise instep height.

While I agree this isn't for everybody, if your instep measures 3 sizes bigger then your length, it may be the best option. Certainly downsizing a foot that measures this way is not the way to go.

[old goat]

Can anyone estimate, numerically or generally, how much the flex changes when you remove 1 or both bolts from a tecnica mach1 130 boot?

Even before this thread I was considering going to a softer boot but I'm eyeing a deal on the stiffer flex and I'm trying to get an idea how modifiable they will be.

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The difference is significant--no screws removed>both screws removed is like going from January flex in Montana to spring flex in California. (The manual that comes with the boots says which screw to remove if you only remove one, forget which one it is.).

BTW am I the only one with a low instep. I have to use Bontex shims even in the Mach1 130 which supposedly has a low instep, and that's with a 1 skinny finger shell fit.

[abraham]

Can anyone estimate, numerically or generally, how much the flex changes when you remove 1 or both bolts from a tecnica mach1 130 boot?

Even before this thread I was considering going to a softer boot but I'm eyeing a deal on the stiffer flex and I'm trying to get an idea how modifiable they will be.

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I've heard 5% less without the bottom, 10% without the top one and 20% with both pulled out. Not sure what boot what that was for.

[mr_pretzel]

Definitely wouldn’t ski without both bolts, nothing holding you back from a deep flex that would compromise your achilles.

[Core Shot]

Did he have to go door-to-door and tell everyone he bootfits 8 year olds?

Only a three letter difference.

Pedorthist dude. Eight year old (boots)

[EWG]

Definitely wouldn’t ski without both bolts, nothing holding you back from a deep flex that would compromise your achilles.

This.

[Shorty_J]

The difference is significant--no screws removed>both screws removed is like going from January flex in Montana to spring flex in California. (The manual that comes with the boots says which screw to remove if you only remove one, forget which one it is.).

BTW am I the only one with a low instep. I have to use Bontex shims even in the Mach1 130 which supposedly has a low instep, and that's with a 1 skinny finger shell fit.

Thanks for that. I have a relatively low instep as well which is the main reason I want to squeeze myself into a machq lv.

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[Shorty_J]

Definitely wouldn’t ski without both bolts, nothing holding you back from a deep flex that would compromise your achilles.

Ok... thats very helpful... thanks. I tore my Achilles skiing about 8 years ago wearing Flexons and I'm kind of thinking it was a similar mechanism to what you're warning of.

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[abraham]

But I wouldn't be afraid of pulling one bolt or the other and testing. I usually run one and add a second in the spring when the boots start folding a bit.


I do think I had a pair that came with no bolt, but places to drill to add them? Maybe I'm misremembering.

[onenerdykid]

The screws affect the initial feel of the flex pattern. They don't make a boot that is too soft become the proper flex for you and they don't make a boot that is too stiff become the right flex.

Concerning Atomic, never take out both screws. One screw is always needed and preferably you always keep the bottom one in and add/remove the top screw to change the feel/flex.

With Redster boots, this is absolutely crucial because adding a top screw permanently fixes your forward lean in place. On these boots it's less of a flex adjustment and more about securing the cuff at the right angle.

With Hawx boots, keep the bottom screw in and play with adding/removing the top screw. Two screws makes for a more responsive feel, bottom-screw-only makes for a more forgiving feel.

[mr_pretzel]

The screws affect the initial feel of the flex pattern. They don't make a boot that is too soft become the proper flex for you and they don't make a boot that is too stiff become the right flex.

Concerning Atomic, never take out both screws. One screw is always needed and preferably you always keep the bottom one in and add/remove the top screw to change the feel/flex.

With Redster boots, this is absolutely crucial because adding a top screw permanently fixes your forward lean in place. On these boots it's less of a flex adjustment and more about securing the cuff at the right angle.

So is the forward lean variable with just one screw?
Could you explain this a bit more I can’t seem to visualize it.

[onenerdykid]

So is the forward lean variable with just one screw?
Could you explain this a bit more I can’t seem to visualize it.

The Redster cuff has two pre-drilled screw positions: upper hole is circular (no pre-mounted screw), lower "hole" is a vertical slot with a pre-mounted screw.

The Redster shell has the bottom hole drilled, but not the upper hole.

You can position the cuff in a 16° setting (using the 3mm shim) or an 18° setting (using the 5mm shim). Once you find the setting you like, you use the upper hole in the cuff as a guide, drill into the shell, and add the claw nut and screw.

[YoEddy]

The screws affect the initial feel of the flex pattern. They don't make a boot that is too soft become the proper flex for you and they don't make a boot that is too stiff become the right flex.

It's boot specific, but we regularly take bolts out of kids cuffs that are in boots that are too stiff for them. This is fairly common at the U16 age when kids have grown a foot and a half over the summer and parents throw them in a 140. Some don't have the weight/muscle to properly flex the boot they're in, while others may be big and strong but don't have the skills to move to the front of the boot yet. The results are typically immediately visible.

This is from Lange but most 2 piece overlap race boots are similar (Redster notwithstanding).


As someone said it's easier to soften a boot than it is to stiffen, but back in the day we used to bolt cuffs all of the time ... until you were good / lucky enough to secure a pair of the coveted Nordica Grand Prix plugs many years before they were ever commercially available.

[onenerdykid]

This image from Lange has been the source of many heated disagreements among boot gurus (I've generally stayed out of it).

I get that some kids might benefit from this strategy, but with adults it's super sketchy- lots of Achilles injury potential here. And a definite no-go on Atomic boots.

[pureantigravity]

When I first read this thread I thought it said, "90% Of People That Buy Boots Are Too Stiff".

Covid lockdown afetcing my brain.

[EWG]

There is no damn way I'm taking both bolts out of the boots of anyone I ski with. Just saying.

[YoEddy]

I agree that if an adult has to remove both bolts then they're in too stiff of a boot. I don't like doing that at all because I have to imagine it skis for shit (like skiing in walk mode), but it's usually just a temporary fix until we can get them sorted out. Removing one or the other bolt is likely to be just as mentally beneficial as it is physical, but the results are noticeable. That said the goal is to have both bolts back in, or different boots before they move up.

Reminds me of a training session at Loveland once where we had a lane near the French men's team (totally random) - their coach had them all skiing GS on just the lower shells with cuffs removed from the boots, and of course they were all crushing it like everything was normal.

[half-fast]

Definitely wouldn’t ski without both bolts, nothing holding you back from a deep flex that would compromise your achilles.

Pretty sure I took both bolts out of a pair of tecnica agent 130s one winter when it was below zero alot. I’m 200lbs and am still alive and have both achilles. They were still pretty stiff after taking the bolts out. I’m in cochise 120s now and I think the agents were stiffer than them without the bolts

[anotherVTskibum]

Reminds me of a training session at Loveland once where we had a lane near the French men's team (totally random) - their coach had them all skiing GS on just the lower shells with cuffs removed from the boots, and of course they were all crushing it like everything was normal.

The Global Skiing podcast with Tim Cafe discussed that. The program director where I coach had shared the link, and we both agreed that it sounded like a very interesting exercise that probably wasn't a great idea to try in the U.S. legal environment. If I wasn't too lazy to worry about getting my boots back together with the alignment correct, I'd give it a shot, but I'd also need to find time to take them apart, go skiing, and put them back together.

[YoEddy]

I'm guessing they have 'spare' lowers with them for the exercise.

[anotherVTskibum]

I'm guessing they have 'spare' lowers with them for the exercise.

I think for an actual tech—who presumably would have notes already on the preferred alignment, both fore/aft and laterally, for each athlete, it would be relatively simple. With most boots, you could also mark both pieces and make sure your marks line up when you put them back together, so long as you marked in the right spots (something about being either in the same plane or not the same plane, but I'm too tired right now to think that through).

[GoldenBC]

While I agree this isn't for everybody, if your instep measures 3 sizes bigger then your length, it may be the best option. Certainly downsizing a foot that measures this way is not the way to go.

If you instep measures three sizes bigger, get a high instep boot, mold the liner with big pads on the instep, mold the shell with pads on the instep or with a softball inside the shell, or grind the boot board.

Sure, don’t put them in a one finger fit but definitely don’t put hem in a boot three sizes too long. I’ve almost never put someone in a boot that is bigger than a recreational fit. And it’s never from instep issue. In 15 years. The rest of the foot won’t line up properly, they will slide fore and aft, etc, etc.

I just can’t believe an article like that would be written without even mentioning that boots have different instep volumes.