90% of people buy boots that are too stiff

[margotron]

Agree, w/ 36” inseam, I’m super picky about forward lean.

ah! fellow daddy long legs!

[plugboots]

ah! fellow daddy long legs!

My friend calls us “spiders”. There’s a long story, but I don’t feel like typing it out now.
It makes sense. It’s why I’ve liked plugboots and 130 flex boots. Even as I get old and weak.

[joeshek]

ah! fellow daddy long legs!

What are you guys working with for boots? Or what are you targeting for forward lean/ramp angle.

Fall in the same biomechaniccal demographic but have never given it much thought, focusing more on other aspects of fit instead...

[AEV]

How do you advanced/expert skiing big guys feel about being in the same 130 boots, so many 150-180lb good skiers are in? Read around here and Blister reviews or other sites, lots of smaller guys in the boots we're supposed to be working with.

I'm 6'2.5" 36" Jeans inseam, 34" bike inseam true measurement, 220lbs fairly low fat. I can't find boots stiff enough. I do actually like flex of the the Salomon 130 Carbon, it felt stiffer than my Firebird 140s, or Raptor 140s. It's too light, but the flex felt more like my ZBs. Good on Salomon. Plugs suck.

[shroom]

it makes my pee pee feel small

[AEV]

Ego aside. I'm talking solely about performance. Does 130 feel inadequate for you?

Can you not express yourself as a big man here still, without people bringing up sexual organs? Sorry, will tone it down, forgot about that aspect of this place.

[phatty]

Ego aside. I'm talking solely about performance. Does 130 feel inadequate for you?

Can you not express yourself as a big man here still? Sorry, will tone it down.

I'm not quite as big as you (6'2" and 195) and there are times I feel like I'm over powering my Cochise 130s. Bought some Rx130s to see if I notice a difference with non walk mode boots. May try some external stiffeners (there's a few threads talking about DIY and aftermarket versions) if I find they still aren't stiff enough.

[abraham]

I'm curious about what I should be looking for in a boot if I have an ankle that doesn't bend very far. I hurt my ankle flexing through my hawx xtd at the start of the year and every now and then I get the same feeling in my langes.

I've considered making them more upright so I have a little more travel before I hit the limit of my ankle. The raptors I was in for the last several seasons were uprighted a bit. It doesn't help that I'm generally unaware of what my body is doing as I ski.

To aev, I found ZBs to be pretty plush and comfortable. Though I need to stiffen them up for spring now. I lace the liners up every day, not sure if that makes a difference.

[AEV]

I'm not quite as big as you (6'2" and 195) and there are times I feel like I'm over powering my Cochise 130s. Bought some Rx130s to see if I notice a difference with non walk mode boots. May try some external stiffeners (there's a few threads talking about DIY and aftermarket versions) if I find they still aren't stiff enough.

I feel like the main problem for me is that California doesn't get that cold.

I'm curious about what I should be looking for in a boot if I have an ankle that doesn't bend very far. I hurt my ankle flexing through my hawx xtd at the start of the year and every now and then I get the same feeling in my langes.

I've considered making them more upright so I have a little more travel before I hit the limit of my ankle. The raptors I was in for the last several seasons were uprighted a bit. It doesn't help that I'm generally unaware of what my body is doing as I ski.

To aev, I found ZBs to be pretty plush and comfortable. Though I need to stiffen them up for spring now. I lace the liners up every day, not sure if that makes a difference.

I see you Abraham. I write the things I write because of mass and the physics behind it. Not because of skill. I'm you're average TGR "expert", I'm nothing special within this crowd, and I have my bad days.

[abraham]

I'm not picking on you dude. More encouraging you to try to get the plugs to work if you can deal with the fitting with involved in getting there. Maybe I misread what you had there before your edit? For what it's worth I'm 5'8, 210 so I don't have the leverage that you have. And I ski the same place phatty does, it's rarely real cold here. Not once this season I think.

I'm no expert, especially because of the lack of proprioception, there are people on here who can feel those differences and articulate them well. I'm just not one of them. And then there are people who charge but don't seem to be that picky/sensitive about their gear.

[AEV]

I'm not picking on you dude. More encouraging you to try to get the plugs to work if you can deal with the fitting with involved in getting there. Maybe I misread what you had there before your edit? For what it's worth I'm 5'8, 210 so I don't have the leverage that you have. And I ski the same place phatty does, it's rarely real cold here. Not once this season I think.

I'm no expert, especially because of the lack of proprioception, there are people on here who can feel those differences and articulate them well. I'm just not one of them. And then there are people who charge but don't seem to be that picky/sensitive about their gear.

Sorry, I'm a fkn ass and nuts. My mind is a little weird now.

Ok but physics wise, do you not see a discrepancy in guys under 180lbs loving the same 130-140 boots us (US! you're big too, I thought you were like 175lb or something) big guys are supposed to enjoy too?

[123ski]

I’ve never found a stiff enough boot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mr_pretzel]

Sorry, I'm a fkn ass and nuts. My mind is a little weird now.

Ok but physics wise, do you not see a discrepancy in guys under 180lbs loving the same 130-140 boots us (US! you're big too, I thought you were like 175lb or something) big guys are supposed to enjoy too?

There are just so many thing that influence how a boot flexes for someone, shin length, height, weight, how tight the instep is, how big your foot is compared to your overall height, etc.

But with yourself being larger and obviously very strong, yeah all the consumer boots will feel soft.

Any stock 130 feels really soft for me at 6,1 175 lbs, but I have a 25.5 boot so I have a lot of leverage over that tiny footprint when the flexing the boot.

Making the plugs fit is worth it, you just need to find someone who can make them fit for you.
It's not that hard (I even taught myself how to do it) and I've seen you mention you have a narrow foot so it shouldn't be an issue.

What issue are you having with them now? Do you find the ZB too soft? I've tried most of the race boots and find the dobie150 and redster 150 the stiffest (both are stiffer than a ZB). I also tried some Dalbello scorpion 150s that are insanely stiff, but I'm not sure if their new line is the same.

Also abraham, the stiffeners phatty mention work well for me and I also feel like a zip fit liner adds a good amount of stiffness to the boot and it skis oh soo good too.

[AEV]

I'm not quite as big as you (6'2" and 195) and there are times I feel like I'm over powering my Cochise 130s. Bought some Rx130s to see if I notice a difference with non walk mode boots. May try some external stiffeners (there's a few threads talking about DIY and aftermarket versions) if I find they still aren't stiff enough.

There are just so many thing that influence how a boot flexes for someone, shin length, height, weight, how tight the instep is, how big your foot is compared to your overall height, etc.

But with yourself being larger and obviously very strong, yeah all the consumer boots will feel soft.

Any stock 130 feels really soft for me at 6,1 175 lbs, but I have a 25.5 boot so I have a lot of leverage over that tiny footprint when the flexing the boot.

Making the plugs fit is worth it, you just need to find someone who can make them fit for you.
It's not that hard (I even taught myself how to do it) and I've seen you mention you have a narrow foot so it shouldn't be an issue.

What issue are you having with them now? Do you find the ZB too soft? I've tried most of the race boots and find the dobie150 and redster 150 the stiffest (both are stiffer than a ZB). I also tried some Dalbello scorpion 150s that are insanely stiff, but I'm not sure if their new line is the same.

Also abraham, the stiffeners phatty mention work well for me and I also feel like a zip fit liner adds a good amount of stiffness to the boot and it skis oh soo good too.

Fuck man, I feel like could dive into this for weeks and write a serious level essay about this. I hate ski boots, so much so I didn't ski more because of Boots than the fact I broke my neck (c6-c7 fracture) 2 years ago. 95% healed FYI, ready to shred, ski boots are worse than a broken neck. I want to re engineer ski boots somehow, but it's not going to happen.

I have a problem it seems, that I need my boots ultra tight to ski at a high level, and it's just not conducive for not cutting off circulation. I try to go with more comfort, but I just can't ski right. I flat out suck if my boots aren't tight as shit. If there is even a millimeter of movement, I have a bad time. It's the only way I can ski fast. otherwise I'm reduced to a pulp, fucken amateur status. The saying "boots are the most important part" is an understatement for me. I used to measure different lengths and angles and whatever of my feet all the time to try to figure this out, go to the best boot fitters in the country, but it just screwed me more it seems.

I tried ZBs in 27.5 and 28.5, both side of the spectrum, 28.5 was numb somewhere and still with too much movement, so out right away. I kept and need to work on my 27.5 ZBs a lot to fit my 11.5 Nike foot. I like a tight shoe, can wear bigger no problem, but 11.5 Nike is my foot on the dot tight comfort. 27.5 ZBs are a fucken bear trap for me, but I feel like I could have a really good boot fitter do something with.

There is a guy down in Reno I need to try. He get's good word on Epicski, but not talked about enough on here. I might bring my 27.5 ZBs down there.

TBH, these Firebird 140s just need a Zipfit and a Booster Strap, and I think they'll be close. True 96mm last, but a bit soft for "140".

It's hard for me to type what I think about boots. I have essays worth

[onenerdykid]

I'm curious about what I should be looking for in a boot if I have an ankle that doesn't bend very far. I hurt my ankle flexing through my hawx xtd at the start of the year and every now and then I get the same feeling in my langes.

I've considered making them more upright so I have a little more travel before I hit the limit of my ankle. The raptors I was in for the last several seasons were uprighted a bit. It doesn't help that I'm generally unaware of what my body is doing as I ski.

To aev, I found ZBs to be pretty plush and comfortable. Though I need to stiffen them up for spring now. I lace the liners up every day, not sure if that makes a difference.

Generally speaking, a limited ankle ROM (dorsiflexion) means that you should be in a more upright boot and stiffer boot: one that does not let you flex past your ankle's maximum range. Boots with lots of forward lean and a flex pattern that allow you to flex past your ankle's maximum range will cause you discomfort.

[abraham]

Generally speaking, a limited ankle ROM (dorsiflexion) means that you should be in a more upright boot and stiffer boot: one that does not let you flex past your ankle's maximum range. Boots with lots of forward lean and a flex pattern that allow you to flex past your ankle's maximum range will cause you discomfort.

Thanks! That's what I thought, but I've still been getting used to both sets of new boots. Most of the time I flex too far it's in Friday light and I'm not expecting the pushback. For the hawx I can flip the switch mount to reduce the lean or do I need the alternate part?

Aever, I'll write more for you soon but a start is here. I get the wanting to apply physics principles to everything but they get complicated. I studied physics and I really enjoyed it even though it's not the path I chose since then. But it's tempting to reduce problems too far. Yeah there are the levers of your bones and they have an impact on how much effort it takes to flex a boot, but you also have the levers from your tendons and they can be attached in different places from person to person. Hell we have all three lever classes in our bodies.

[onenerdykid]

Thanks! That's what I thought, but I've still been getting used to both sets of new boots. Most of the time I flex too far it's in Friday light and I'm not expecting the pushback. For the hawx I can flip the switch mount to reduce the lean or do I need the alternate part?

The boots are delivered in their 15° configuration. 13° is possible for both Ultra XTD and Prime XTD but with Ultra XTD you will need to order the 13° base plate.

[natebob]

Generally speaking, a limited ankle ROM (dorsiflexion) means that you should be in a more upright boot and stiffer boot: one that does not let you flex past your ankle's maximum range. Boots with lots of forward lean and a flex pattern that allow you to flex past your ankle's maximum range will cause you discomfort.

What do you think about limited ROM related to binding ramp?

[onenerdykid]

What do you think about limited ROM related to binding ramp?

That resulting angle that is created from the ramp angle + forward lean is the crucial angle.

[Core Shot]

I'm curious about what I should be looking for in a boot if I have an ankle that doesn't bend very far. I hurt my ankle flexing through my hawx xtd at the start of the year and every now and then I get the same feeling in my langes.

I've considered making them more upright so I have a little more travel before I hit the limit of my ankle. The raptors I was in for the last several seasons were uprighted a bit. It doesn't help that I'm generally unaware of what my body is doing as I ski.

To aev, I found ZBs to be pretty plush and comfortable. Though I need to stiffen them up for spring now. I lace the liners up every day, not sure if that makes a difference.

I know the problem. Never had pain. But Limited dorsiflexion. It sucks.
A more upright boot helps. As does a stiffer boot if you want to push the tongue.
Also heel lift. Opens the ankle.
Also ramp angle on bindings is huge. Or delta. Or whatever you call it.
Having your toe binding lower is a negative. Flat delta is better for us misfit skiers.

[old goat]

Yes, it’s just that without the benefit of working with a high level coach and boot-fitter, or just plain dumb luck, most skiers are never going to experience that combination of personalized boot fit, hinge point, delta, forward lean, cuff alignment, abduction, binding ramp, ski mount-point etc that permits the biomechanics necessary for uncompromised ski technique. Focusing on just boot flex (in which the quality of flex through the range is a more helpful way of thinking about it) is simplistic. I don’t know if BW’s assertions about leg length ratio to ramp angle are actually universals, I suspect it’s more complicated.

"that combination of personalized boot fit, hinge point, delta, forward lean, cuff alignment, abduction, binding ramp, ski mount-point etc that permits the biomechanics necessary for uncompromised ski technique." If you are going to spend that kind of time dialing in your gear, don't do it on a powder day.

[natebob]

That resulting angle that is created from the ramp angle + forward lean is the crucial angle.

Ok, thanks. Any advice for someone 6'1", long legs, moderately limited ROM? Currently skiing Maestrale 322mm, 16 degree fwd lean, 3/16" heel lift on Rotation 10's with toe shimmed 3.2mm. This basically feels good, but a bit heavy on the heels.

[XXX-er]

shortish legs (30" inseam) small feet, only 165 lb

a 4 buckle overlap 110 flex Dalbello / Vulcan AT have been fine for me

[glademaster]

Fuck man, I feel like could dive into this for weeks and write a serious level essay about this. I hate ski boots, so much so I didn't ski more because of Boots than the fact I broke my neck (c6-c7 fracture) 2 years ago. 95% healed FYI, ready to shred, ski boots are worse than a broken neck. I want to re engineer ski boots somehow, but it's not going to happen.

I have a problem it seems, that I need my boots ultra tight to ski at a high level, and it's just not conducive for not cutting off circulation. I try to go with more comfort, but I just can't ski right. I flat out suck if my boots aren't tight as shit. If there is even a millimeter of movement, I have a bad time. It's the only way I can ski fast. otherwise I'm reduced to a pulp, fucken amateur status. The saying "boots are the most important part" is an understatement for me. I used to measure different lengths and angles and whatever of my feet all the time to try to figure this out, go to the best boot fitters in the country, but it just screwed me more it seems.

I tried ZBs in 27.5 and 28.5, both side of the spectrum, 28.5 was numb somewhere and still with too much movement, so out right away. I kept and need to work on my 27.5 ZBs a lot to fit my 11.5 Nike foot. I like a tight shoe, can wear bigger no problem, but 11.5 Nike is my foot on the dot tight comfort. 27.5 ZBs are a fucken bear trap for me, but I feel like I could have a really good boot fitter do something with.

There is a guy down in Reno I need to try. He get's good word on Epicski, but not talked about enough on here. I might bring my 27.5 ZBs down there.

TBH, these Firebird 140s just need a Zipfit and a Booster Strap, and I think they'll be close. True 96mm last, but a bit soft for "140".

It's hard for me to type what I think about boots. I have essays worth

With size 11.5 feet, you should probably try out a 26.5 shell, especially if you're using a ZipFit. I measure around 11/11.5 (left/right variation) and ski all day in 26.5 Lange RX130LV's with only a minor punch for width through the mid-foot. I'm absolutely swimming in a 27.5 shell. The fact that the forefoot of a Zipfit is nothing but neoprene and shearling allows you to downsize further than you can with other liners that suck up more length.

I'm sure it's been asked already, but have you tried the Foot Scanner app that GregL posted about?

[Hicks]

(c) liners and fit matter as does how tight you clamp your buckles
(d) easy to make a stiff boot softer
(e) really hard to make a soft boot stiffer
(f) impossible to meaningfully gauge stiffness in a 70F store

THIS!

Glad I'm still rocking my 17 years old alpine boot shell with exchange soles and replacement liners.