GUNS!!!!!!!!

**snapt** · 03-18-2021, 12:38 PM

So is a 22-250? Ballistics gel doesn’t have a brown bears skeletal system in the mix.

**highangle** · 03-18-2021, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by snapt

So is a 22-250? Ballistics gel doesn’t have a brown bears skeletal system in the mix.

My fucking Shockwave weighs 2lbs less, can reliably dump a charging buffalo at all defensive ranges, is way cheaper to shoot and maintain in BEAR Country than any cartridge you never heard of, has a hudge M500-series aftermarket, I've literally carried it hundreds of miles on day hikes, and I can ttly sell it right now for more than I got in it.

**snapt** · 03-18-2021, 04:33 PM

Mass>Speed in bear country.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by snapt

Mass>Speed in bear country.

I'm not so sure it's that simple. Seems like total energy of all projectiles on target is one metric.

Like the energy of each pellet of buckshot added up multiplied by by several shells adds up to something that is often recommended despite having neither mass nor speed because you can send a whole shitton of projectiles downrange in a couple seconds. I'm not sure I want to trust a full auto 22 against a bear, but with a high enough rate of fire, I am sure I woudn't want to be the bear either. I have heard the inuits like mini 14s for bears because they work well in the cold, but that must mean they work ok on the bears too. Not sure if even repetitive hits could penetrate a bears forehead with any of those, but 30 223, 30 rounds of 9mm, which is effectively what several rounds of buckshot is, or 17 7.5 FK is going to fuck up his shoulders, face, jaw, and most likely heart and lungs.

Problem is how do you carry a shotgun, on your pack like in the above photo? Whats your drawtime on that setup, 2 minutes? I have thought about a remington vtac13, but it just seems like the same problem as the kriss vector pistol, a biggass weight on your chest not in a holster.

If I were on a snowmobile or somethign and didn't have to carry the fucker, I'd just have an FAL m1a or perhaps the mighty hakim in 8mm, and not have to choose between speed, mass, rate of fire or capacity and just get all four, but I think if you've got three of those you'll be all right.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by snapt

So is a 22-250? Ballistics gel doesn’t have a brown bears skeletal system in the mix.

yea, a semi auto that you carry in a holster with 17 rounds. Penetration tests on plates are better than 10mm.

**highangle** · 03-19-2021, 01:38 AM

**highangle** · 03-19-2021, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

The energy and penetration are both superior to 10mm, at least in ballistic gel.

DDupleks Monolit 28 [2.75" 12ga] is also superior to a 10mm...

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by highangle

DDupleks Monolit 28 [2.75" 12ga] is also superior to a 10mm...

Couple pages ago I was dumb for wanting to carry a longarm, now, you're suggesting one? We all have seen penetration results of 12g. Are you guys just scared ofanything different?

Kinda think you guys are just fudds but that's ok.

**riser4** · 03-19-2021, 06:13 PM

Shockwave is a long arm?

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

Shockwave is a long arm?

So in that picture, is it in a holster, or strapped to his pack? In terms of carrying while hiking, anything that isn't in a holster and has to be slung somehow or carried offhand or in a pack is a longarm, regardless of what the law says. It's just a shorter longarm.

Debatably just because a 7-14 lb uber handgun can fit in a holster doesn't make it not be a longarm either, but that's semantics.

Recoil looks a little stout on the 7.5fk. I kinda think if facing a grizzly adrenaline would mitigate recoil and increase rate of fire but I'd hate to count on that.

You guys are going to laugh at me, but ok now I've got the real answer, a Kriss Vector in 7.5FK. The vector is a pound lighter than that ungodly pistol, and with their recoil system, and better ergos for handling recoil, you wouldn't need the 1lb dead weight that the BRNO has hanging off the barrel, ya, they put a weight up front to minimize recoil. In a vector though I think it'd be fairly controllable, and 30 rounds of 7.5 in two seconds would put down anything.

I emailed them. maybe in a fear years when the awb scare has died down and they're less busy they'll even read it.

I dunno, I just want something high capacity and high rate of fire but also packs a punch. Spray and pray ya know, just keep minute of bear. Fuck precision while this thing charges at you from far enough to be difficult to be accurate, to on top of you in the time that it'd take a methhed to stab you from 6 feet away. I'll probably just get a short shotty like the guy above, but ya I guess I gotta a gun fetish. I like the engineering. You guys are boring.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 07:47 PM

I have also been considering going completely the other direction, ya know, mass over speed, power over capacity, and just carrying a harpoon gun. Maybe dual wielding. Yeah.

**riser4** · 03-19-2021, 09:16 PM

You're a kook.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-19-2021, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

You're a kook.

Cool story bro why?

**highangle** · 03-20-2021, 10:55 AM

One wonders why you can't be happy with a bb gun, Leroy?
Projectile just too big?
To easy to find ammo?
Not tactically prestigious enough for a man of your rare tactical prestige?
?

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 11:43 AM

Ya, why even own guns at all, or like, have hobbies or curiosity or any sort of joy in life ya know?

Seems like there are some sort of contrived unspoken groupthink rules here I'm not getting. What exactly is the list of acceptable firearms? A glock doesn't offend your fudd sensibilities but a new caliber hurts your brains to think about or someting? A short shotgun strapped to a pack is normal, and a g20 in 10mm is normal, but a 10mm pistol/carbine strapped to a pack is somehow different?

You guys are fucking silly.

**highangle** · 03-20-2021, 12:21 PM

Leroy, you don't seem to know shit about physics, guns, or how bullets work. Plus, you're a goofy bastard, and a mall ninja.
Buy whatever you want with your own money. Go. Live. Be free.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 12:57 PM

Your assumptions are amusingly off base. I want you to keep going.

I welcome your education about physics and all these things I don't know.

A few pages ago some of you same clowns were saying a neck or head shot on stationary soft skinned game from fairly close range with a rifle was ridiculous, and now you think you're going to get your a single or two accurate well placed shots on a grizzly bear charging at you 40 miles per hour while its kill zone is moving vertically on an axis of at least a couple feet as it runs.

Or you're just fudds and don't like new things because your little brains cant handle it. Either way its gold. Never found a firearms discussion online that seems to have such an undercurrent of not actually liking firearms for their own sake or being interested in their development.

Thanks for the advice to be free though. I plan on fucking your mom later. I think Ill make her call me a goofy bastard for you.

**Cruiser** · 03-20-2021, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Thanks for the advice to be free though. I plan on fucking your mom later. I think Ill make her call me a goofy bastard for you.

These are the kind of comments the keep me coming back to this little corner of the interwebz. Well played, sir!

**highangle** · 03-20-2021, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Ya, why even own guns at all, or like, have hobbies or curiosity or any sort of joy in life ya know?

I think your diametrical opposition to common sense and the established practice which has been distilled from it... is what makes me wince.
Seems like you could have googled "bear defense firearm", or pondered positive bear defense outcomes and what anyone in your Z-coils wants to have happen in a certain set of bear defense scenarios...But you want to re-invent the bear gun, for some reason no doubt...

Seems like there are some sort of contrived unspoken groupthink rules here I'm not getting.

Physics is a bitch, I know. But...yeah... You've got to envision a bear defense scenario, consider how likely it is to happen and balance that against the expense and inconvenience of carrying a belt fed machine gun on your Huffy 26er.

What exactly is the list of acceptable firearms? A glock doesn't offend your fudd sensibilities but a new caliber hurts your brains to think about or someting? A short shotgun strapped to a pack is normal, and a g20 in 10mm is normal, but a 10mm pistol/carbine strapped to a pack is somehow different?

A short shotgun is what 80% of armed Alaskans and Canadians carry against the likelihood of teddy bear picnics. The rest use handguns or rifles, typically in large calibers. For reasons.

Why is it that every fucking video game kia wants to pop pistol caps at 400lb+ animals and and bike to the next level like it ain't nothing? Goddamn son, that's you theoretically taking a magnificent life to keep your child or yourself from being eaten by a wild animal - and you want to be Marvin Martian fucking around with an ACME bubble gun? dude.

You guys are fucking silly.

Hmmmm.

.

**riser4** · 03-20-2021, 03:31 PM

Leroy is either trolling or he's like one of those gun shop groupies that loves to hang around and discuss in intimate detail obscure things that he has no experience with but wants to sound worldly. The kind that is both trying to impress and loves to hear himself talk about this stuff because he thinks he sounds smart. And when asked to buy something or leave the shop, he gets the cheapest thing he can find, like a single paper target or a fridge magnet, even if he doesn't understand how they work.

How about you use whatever is most popular in bear country? There's a reason it's popular.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 03:40 PM

You are making a lot of assumptions. I know what people use for bear guns, and I know what people used for them 30 years ago.

You amuse. me. I like talking about guns, and like interesting guns. Somewhere you seem to have gotten some butthurt.

Those short shotties weight the same amount as a vector pistol, and cannot be holstered any better. A g20 in 10mm is ok, but a vector in same caliber capable of higher rate of fire and more controllable, is somehow not ok?

If the caliber is ok, and the weight is ok, it isn't physics. Not sure what rules you are operating based on, but it sure isn't logic. Honestly I don't even care about internet arguments much, but usually they are usually boring and nothing but vitriol, you at least are amusingly emotional in your like vs dislike of certain guns. The vector is also the same price as many short shotguns. I still don't even get what your point is and your inability to articulate it is amusing. Like snarky vague sarcasm, you got it, actually communicating, not so much.

There is definitely wisdom in trusting the tried and true, but that isn't even what you're arguing. 10mm and vector pistols are both pretty tried and true at this point.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by riser3

Leroy is either trolling or he's like one of those gun shop groupies that loves to hang around and discuss in intimate detail obscure things that he has no experience with but wants to sound worldly. The kind that is both trying to impress and loves to hear himself talk about this stuff because he thinks he sounds smart. And when asked to buy something or leave the shop, he gets the cheapest thing he can find, like a single paper target or a fridge magnet, even if he doesn't understand how they work.

How about you use whatever is most popular in bear country? There's a reason it's popular.

It is so bizarre to me you would ascribe my behavior to wanting to sound worldly and giving a shit what people think about me instead of just being curious and interested in new things. That says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about me.

I am continually amazed at the lenses some people view the world through. I don't even know how a fucking kriss pistol that everyone knows about makes you worldly. Doing what is most popular is great advice in life. Have fun with that.

At this point though, yes, I am trolling you morans.

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 04:07 PM

sorry, I thought this was a thread titled GUNS with a bunch of exclamation marks and starts with a post that says 'sweet satan I love guns' and not boring fudd headquarters to discuss hunting and stupid fudd shit. The irony of accusing someone of having a 'gun fetish' in a thread that starts with that post is lost on you.

Try not taking everything quite so serious and you may not get so offended at the audacity of someone for perhaps having a thought you haven't had before.

Ok honesty, not trolling any more, just being a human, but HighAngle, did you serve? I know some guys don't like guns that are too tactical after they come back, and have an emotional feeling that they are weapons of war or something and have a hard time with that and if that's what we are encountering here, then it's cool you don't have to answer but just it's cool man, the way you describe my belt fed machine pistol seems weird. It's just a lead slinger like many others. Or you just seem to have a lot of mental blockage man.

**highangle** · 03-20-2021, 07:39 PM

Maybe I've just had more of my friends eaten by wild animals?

**leroy jenkins** · 03-20-2021, 08:02 PM

There we go. man I knew there was something weird about this. Well sorry man that sucks. I've been growled at and I've been charged and would like to be better armed.