To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[XXX-er]

It seems to me that in general small states, small countries, small towns, small counties are doing better in getting people vaccinated, which isn't surprising.

I'm thinking up here in the middle of nowhere they might just vax a bunch of people instead of the extra travle required to do it by group ?

[Mazderati]

Actually, a reasonably well-discussed piece on this on NPR today.

Not a fan of the interviewee's milquetoast non-recommendation. All treatment is personal; that doesn't help. In my mind, the leading message should be, "There is not enough data to confirm the vaccine is safe and effective but there is no reason to think it is not. My recommendation is get the vaccine unless you are a special case because of x."

Yo Mofro, Huck or anyone else with actual credentials in this field; my 6 month pregnant wife was offered the vaccine in about a week through Sutter. Apparently she’s one of 4 pregnant women who said she’d be interested in the whole practice. She’d be part of a clinical study as well which we both support.

Her OB “neither encourages nor discourages it”, but they don’t think it will be harmful or they would offer it.

To us it seems like a big upside for a tiny chance of negative outcomes. Our bias is to have faith in science, so maybe we have a blind spot here. What say you guys, would you want your 6 month pregnant wife, daughter, etc with no known allergies or other adverse reactions to vaccines to get it?

My wife recently faced the same decision. Her profile: 5 months, geriatric, works in healthcare. She received the second shot last week. Primary OB was an uninformed jellyfish. Specialized OB was for it. We read everything we could find at the time which was next to nothing. ACOG was the only large organization taking a stance and their recommendation was get it if offered. COVID severity is often worse in pregnant women and that factored. Pregnant women have made it into other trials and no crazy adverse events have been reported but that can't be generalized because of small numbers.

[Tri-Ungulate]

In my mind, the leading message should be, "There is not enough data to confirm the vaccine is safe and effective but there is no reason to think it is not. My recommendation is get the vaccine unless you are a special case because of x."

That's pretty much what she's saying in her own milquetoast way. But with OB there's that extra level of what-if d/t the fetus (and the concomitant legalities involved) that makes the recommendations necessarily extra milquetoasty.

I gotta say though, that prenatal clinical medicine is one of the more data-free zones, largely because nobody wants to mess with it outside of animal models. I mean, most clinical trials (including the SARS CoV2 vaccine trials) exclude pregnant women as a matter of course.

Additionally, OB-Gyns are notorious for being one of the more "practice" rather than data-driven disciplines. Kinda like vascular surgery, right OG?

That being said, there could conceivably be unexpected off-effects regarding immune response, but that would be the case with most any vaccine, and not limited to the new mRNA crop IMO.

Allinall, my own feeling is that the available SARS CoV2 vaccines are prolly safe for preggo wimmen and their fetuses, but if you're getting your medical advice from some stranger on a skiing BB, ya get whatcha pay for.

[wooley12]

Guess when preg and get Covid you have a higher risk for negative outcomes.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...spitalization/

[old goat]

Here's what Harvard says about covid vaccine in pregnancy https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...0after%20birth. and what the CDC says about vaccines in general in pregnancy https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pregnan...d-to-know.html

In general vaccination in pregnancy is a good thing because it protects mother and child. Or so say the first two items in a google search.

Even more in general--maternal illness is worse for a fetus than treating the illness or preventing it.

Tri-U--I'd say vascular surgery is more vendor driven than practice or data driven. It's more scientific now, though, than it was in the early days of Cooley, DeBakey, et al when the goal was to make the angiogram look normal without any consideration for what good or harm was being done to the patient. There still is some of that unfortunately.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Guess when preg and get Covid you have a higher risk for negative outcomes.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...spitalization/

yes, exactly. I'm gonna guess it has to do with deranged autoimmunity/hypercoaguability syndromes, like I've been harping on since last April. Preggo wimmyn are especially susceptible to that bad stuff.

But yeah, with that in mind, and the more likely safety of the vaccine relative to actually getting COVID19, I'm more in the "do it rather than wait" camp in the situation of pregnant women.

And OG, I'm just giving you some good-natured shit like I would to any of my surgeon buds.

[bodywhomper]

Neufox47, congrats! (U skiing on Friday?)

ETA: wife and I both got poked today with different vaxes. Still no cell service at home.

[neufox47]

Neufox47, congrats! (U skiing on Friday?)

ETA: wife and I both got poked today with different vaxes. Still no cell service at home.

Thanks!

Tomorrow if the roads open, maybe Friday. PM me if you are up and want to make some turns.


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[MTT]

This is the video I intended to post previously.

[Flounder]

That's pretty much what she's saying in her own milquetoast way. But with OB there's that extra level of what-if d/t the fetus (and the concomitant legalities involved) that makes the recommendations necessarily extra milquetoasty.

I listened to the program yesterday and got the feeling she was being very careful with her words so as to not trigger the antivaxxers. It has to suck to be in that position. Not only do you risk online harrasment but these antivaxxers are everywhere and you risk in person harrasment.

[bigdude2468]

Preliminary but encouraging, Pfizer vaccine appears to be effective against South African variant.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...k-study-2021-1

[Nobody Famous]

My understanding from some family in PA is all appointments are made through the county of residence, you "register for an appointment," you can't call up a pharmacy or clinic or whatever and make an appointment. And you can't just show up.

When you group is ready, 1A, 1B... you get notification to make an appointment, and only then are you directed to a clinic, pharmacy etc. that administers the injection.

Your mom is lucky she's in Chester County. Some genius (geniuses) in the neighboring county to the east, Delaware County, disbanded and shutdown their public health department a few years ago (too much gub'mint). That county contracts out their public health services to Chester County.

If your mom is worried or concerned look up and get her in touch with her township/borough/city commissioner. Or get her in touch with a county-level senior citizens office -- the names vary by county, area agency on aging, senior services, etc...

funkendrenchman, an update from the relatives, they report scheduling and appointment process across state of PA may be changing, rumblings in the news, etc. Any change will be announced on the PA Dept of Health website.

[funkendrenchman]

funkendrenchman, an update from the relatives, they report scheduling and appointment process across state of PA may be changing, rumblings in the news, etc. Any change will be announced on the PA Dept of Health website.

Thanks.

[GoldMember]

I'm really disappointed in Washington State's response to the vaccination requirements. First, the governor wasn't following CDC guidelines in having 1B from 65 and up, among other qualifiers and, instead had it for 70 and up. Ten days ago, he announced the change to 65 along with the introduction of mass vaccination sites in the state. For the Spokane area, the only mass site is the Veteran's Memorial Arena and that it would be open the following week. Only problem was is that when he announced it, he hadn't even consulted with the County, City, or PFD which operates the Arena. He also hadn't aligned with any program administrators to implement on a local level and left the locals scrambling to figure out how this was all going to work.

Initially, this was to start this past Monday but we didn't have any vaccine so it was postponed to yesterday. A local Community Health organization was commissioned to administer the program, manage appointment scheduling, and oversee shot administration. Well, it did start yesterday with online appointment scheduling starting at 10:00 a.m, the same time the first appointment was to be met. Their system predictably crashed and people just started going to the Arena, showing up with hope they could get in. Giant Shit Show...

On our local news, a question had been asked whether N. Idaho people could get scheduled for the shot. The answer was no, we have doses designated by state and by county populations so allotments follow population bases with that criteria. Later in the newscast, while showing the shit show at the Arena, they're interviewing some guy who came over from Post Falls to get his scheduled vaccine. When asked, an administrator who checked him in was asked about that and the response was something to the effect of, 'Well, he's here and has an appointment so we're not going to turn him away.' WTF? This was broadcast into Kootenai County so now everyone there will be competing with our residents for slots to get vaccinated without account for the added population load for allotments.

I'm not eligible for the vaccine and won't be for some time but my wife is and I want her to get this as soon as possible. All this just underscores why the state shouldn't be charged with such an undertaking. There was no coherent plan, this wasn't thought out, it's been a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants approach to this all along. It's a joke. The incompetence to this is just unbelievable to me. All this should have been blueprinted two or three months ago with minor adjustments. I've been watching other states who've had pretty effective (comparatively) rollouts and we just now get a community mass site identified, let alone effectively administered. Incomprehensible.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/he...0-b4310f6d7d71

[Adolf Allerbush]

I'm really disappointed in Washington State's response to the vaccination requirements. First, the governor wasn't following CDC guidelines in having 1B from 65 and up, among other qualifiers and, instead had it for 70 and up. Ten days ago, he announced the change to 65 along with the introduction of mass vaccination sites in the state. For the Spokane area, the only mass site is the Veteran's Memorial Arena and that it would be open the following week. Only problem was is that when he announced it, he hadn't even consulted with the County, City, or PFD which operates the Arena. He also hadn't aligned with any program administrators to implement on a local level and left the locals scrambling to figure out how this was all going to work.

Initially, this was to start this past Monday but we didn't have any vaccine so it was postponed to yesterday. A local Community Health organization was commissioned to administer the program, manage appointment scheduling, and oversee shot administration. Well, it did start yesterday with online appointment scheduling starting at 10:00 a.m, the same time the first appointment was to be met. Their system predictably crashed and people just started going to the Arena, showing up with hope they could get in. Giant Shit Show...

On our local news, a question had been asked whether N. Idaho people could get scheduled for the shot. The answer was no, we have doses designated by state and by county populations so allotments follow population bases with that criteria. Later in the newscast, while showing the shit show at the Arena, they're interviewing some guy who came over from Post Falls to get his scheduled vaccine. When asked, an administrator who checked him in was asked about that and the response was something to the effect of, 'Well, he's here and has an appointment so we're not going to turn him away.' WTF? This was broadcast into Kootenai County so now everyone there will be competing with our residents for slots to get vaccinated without account for the added population load for allotments.

I'm not eligible for the vaccine and won't be for some time but my wife is and I want her to get this as soon as possible. All this just underscores why the state shouldn't be charged with such an undertaking. There was no coherent plan, this wasn't thought out, it's been a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants approach to this all along. It's a joke. The incompetence to this is just unbelievable to me. All this should have been blueprinted two or three months ago with minor adjustments. I've been watching other states who've had pretty effective (comparatively) rollouts and we just now get a community mass site identified, let alone effectively administered. Incomprehensible.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/he...0-b4310f6d7d71

If it makes you feel any better those of us in OR have been envious of WA's vaccine dosing efforts. I'm with you though...there should've been a prescribed plan for every state to follow and it should've been figured out long ago.

[char_]

None of this is surprising to hear, but it seems incredibly simple to check an ID for age and address and turn people away when you have a giant line of people to serve.

I get that the people giving the shots are just doing their job getting it out the door, so this is a failure of management to say “send them packing if they don’t meet the criteria”.

[TNKen]

Moderna #2 this am. Arm is a little sore. Feel a little "different" but not real sure why. Might have been the vodka last night.

[John_B]

Goldmember it looks like WA is now trying to be clearer on checking ID's https://komonews.com/news/local/stat...y-for-vaccines My FIL and MIL in Okanogan county both just got vaccinated and here the policy was you needed to bring your DL showing you were an Okanogan resident. I think the small counties are currently having an easier time of it.

Meanwhile my folks that live in Oregon and are 10 years older than the in-laws are still a month+ out from even being eligible to schedule a vaccination date.

[KQ]

It seems to me that in general small states, small countries, small towns, small counties are doing better in getting people vaccinated, which isn't surprising.

I kinda feel that W2 and even Tri-Cities (which is almost 10x bigger than W2) are both doing well with vaxing because they are smaller but at the same time not too far out in the tulies.

Mom gets her 2nd shot on Sunday. SMH... it's amazing to me that they came knocking on her door and jabbed her in her living room when I hear how much trouble other people are having. Nice she/I didn't have to go looking for a place and sit in the car for hours.

Goldmember it looks like WA is now trying to be clearer on checking ID's https://komonews.com/news/local/stat...y-for-vaccines My FIL and MIL in Okanogan county both just got vaccinated and here the policy was you needed to bring your DL showing you were an Okanogan resident. I think the small counties are currently having an easier time of it.

Meanwhile my folks that live in Oregon and are 10 years older than the in-laws are still a month+ out from even being eligible to schedule a vaccination date.

In Tri-Cities you have to make an appt online where you prove your eligiblity. Then you print our your conf (or take a screen shot) and bring it with you to the vax site. Sure you can still lie online but you have to show ID at the site.

[old goat]

And OG, I'm just giving you some good-natured shit like I would to any of my surgeon buds.

I would expect nothing less.
How do you hide a dollar bill from an internist? Put it under a bandage.
How do you hide a dollar bill from an orthopedist? Put it in a book.
How do you hide a dollar bill from a general surgeon? Leave it at home with their family.
How do you hide a dollar bill from a plastic surgeon? You can't.

[GoldMember]

In Tri-Cities you have to make an appt online where you prove your eligiblity. Then you print our your conf (or take a screen shot) and bring it with you to the vax site. Sure you can still lie online but you have to show ID at the site.

Same in Spokane but apparently, if you just showed up yesterday, showed ID for age verification, you could just go in since their computers crashed. Hence the total cluster. That and even if you weren't eligible due to residency, they just let them in. Failure on the part of CHAS in their administration. All of this, including the State's setting up of mass sites, was foreseeable. When the eligibility opened up to 65 and up and other criteria, we suddenly had 1.5MM people eligible and estimated 100k doses per week scheduled in. 15 week backlog when everyone wants it at once. I get it's going to be busy but some of the other mismanagement foibles are only complicating it. Crazy.

ETA: Actually, I take it back, you don't have to show ID, just show you went through Phasefinder and get the eligibility certificate to show at the door. We're doing everything on the honor system in the state. Makes me wonder how many beyond the 1.5MM actually eligible are working on getting in on the limited supply. I may not get a shot for another year at the rate this thing's working.

[MTT]

None of this is surprising to hear, but it seems incredibly simple to check an ID for age and address and turn people away when you have a giant line of people to serve.

I get that the people giving the shots are just doing their job getting it out the door, so this is a failure of management to say “send them packing if they don’t meet the criteria”.

I thought checking ID was racist. Register online have ID. Sounds like it might block out the community that is impacted the most?

[Ted Striker]

but if you're getting your medical advice from some stranger on a skiing BB, ya get whatcha pay for.

Yet oddly enough, despite all the chaff, the quality of the wheat is pretty good.

[TNKen]

In our Tri-Cities, you get to the Bristol Motor Speedway about 5:00am to get a good spot in line, produce your driver's license and general explanation for why you are in Phase 1a1 or 1a2, get blasted. Lines have typically been 3-4 miles long, but move pretty quickly. Gates typically close about 11:00am when they run out of vaccine.

Apparently they only gave Moderna for 5 days back in December/January. I had to go to a different facility for my second dose.

[telechuck]

Second Moderna dose a few hours ago. So far, no Ill effects. Will update if that changes.

If you have the opportunity, please get your vaccine. As an EMT (almost a medic) I see sick people on the daily. It isn’t pretty, these aren’t dice you want to roll.


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