Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[skaredshtles]

Feels like it's time for a safety meeting ....

I'm in. I'm ALL in. Safety meeting in 30.

[jono]

There is no evidence that...

It doesn't really matter what comes immediately after those words, the last word in the sentence is always "yet." Even when it's omitted. Maybe that changes, maybe it doesn't, but a lack of evidence today is not itself evidence. Just like quoting opinion pieces about organizations is not science. Pubmed and the NIH website are pretty old for people to still be ignoring them as a source for their internet drama.

[huckbucket]

At least we're in good company.

[hutash]

This thread moves way too fast. Have we gone over the concept that everyone constantly wearing a mask and sanitizing their hands a million times a day is doing more harm than good? Regardless of the actual risk of getting covid. Take that out of the question. I'm talking as a human who has decided to start killing as much of the good bacteria as possible on their body over the last 2ish months. I've been doing it too, but starting to wonder if I am being foolish in a way. Destroying so much of my bodies natural defenses over the potential fear of one disease and therefor opening myself up to all sorts of other infections in the process....or in the near future? Are we just gonna wear masks forever and all become frail little hermits?

I know this kind of talk puts me into "crazy asshole" territory, but I think it needs to be discussed. Sorry again if the thread has gone over this already.

As a professional hand washer and masker wearer for my entire career, I can say it has no ill effects. No doubt OG will concur.

It has no effect on us.

[Core Shot]

And saying COVID-19 is fake news is the new paste eating.

Fuck.
That reminds me when my kids were younger.
I tried to buy paste glue.
It’s illegal in USA USA USA

You can buy it in Oz but they can’t ship to USA USA USA

[KQ]

Do you have a local FB page where trumpsters are telling older folks the go fuck themselves? I do and I'm sure you have a good portion of your neighbors think the same way. They are following the lead from the WH. Owning the libs is job one for those pos people. So it's time to concentrate on what we can control. We know as much about the virus as we do about avalanches. We're in high consequence avy terrain with yahoo's making ski cuts above us. Our safety depends on our ability to avoid getting caught.

I saw a cellphone tracing vid that showed cellphones going from Tyson in Iowa to SE Washington state. Avy danger is at Extreme for a while. Safe route selection in key to survival. Maybe time for a new method of securing your animal needs for a while?

I'm in. I'm ALL in. Safety meeting in 30.

Will there be gummies? Cuz' I need all the help I can to get through these unprecedented times.

[dunfree]

Fuck.
That reminds me when my kids were younger.
I tried to buy paste glue.
It’s illegal in USA USA USA

You can buy it in Oz but they can’t ship to USA USA USA

paste is illegal in the us? Where do you get this dumbfuckery?

[wooley12]

Can you spell Off The Rails?

[huckbucket]

Here's the signage for the task force briefing today. These idiots are so fucking predictably pedantic. Gonna be gobbled up by the sheeple as usual.

[skaredshtles]

Will there be gummies? Cuz' I need all the help I can to get through these unprecedented times.

But of course. It's the only way I roll.

[Core Shot]

paste is illegal in the us? Where do you get this dumbfuckery?

I’m not saying there’s a law. Although there could be since the only site was Australia and they said they wouldn’t ship to us.

But find me any site or store that will sell me old fashioned paste glue.

I haven’t searched for five or ten years. But yeah. It is not for sale.

Mmmmmmm. I never ate it. But I still remember that smell.
Which is why I tried to buy some for my kids years ago.

[LegoSkier]

I feel it’s a good time for a discussion of ways to detect pathogens and our body’s response to them.

There are two basic ways to detect stuff floating around in your body.

1. Look for amino acids and their polymers. That means detecting proteins.
2. Look for nucleic acids and their polymers. That means detecting DNA or RNA.

Each of those has its advantages and disadvantages. For DNA/RNA the main advantage is that we have this technique of Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) which effectively can take one single strand of DNA/RNA and quickly make millions of exact copies of that strand. That way it is able to create a very powerful amplifier of that DNA/RNA “signal” that you can then detect much easier.

For Proteins, we have no equivalent way to amplify the signal. The best we can do is attach things to the protein molecules that make them easier to see like dyes or phosphorescent molecules that light up. But still there is only a one-to-one ratio of proteins to detect in the original sample to lighted things to detect in the test, whereas with PCR DNA/RNA test, there is a one-to-millions ratio.
Next, comes where we get the “sample” from. The thing we are trying to detect can either be from:

A. The pathogen itself.
B. Our body’s response to the pathogen (our immune response).

So far with COVID we have the following:

- The RT-PCR test which is a DNA/RNA test detecting the pathogen itself. Combining the two lists above that is option 2A.
- Antibody tests which detect protein antibodies produced by our immune system in response to the virus. That is option 1B.

Now the PCR test is great in that it is super sensitive at detecting the presence of RNA from the viral genome. Sometimes perhaps too sensitive in that it can detect RNA that is not at all from a “viable” virus. i.e. it is just detecting the desiccated remains of a virus that was once there but cannot actually infect you anymore. In addition to being very sensitive, they also tend to be very specific in that cross contamination and the reasons for it are very well understood and managed through proper primer design. The downside to this is of course it is only directly looking for the pathogen so it only tells you “you are actively infected and shedding the virus”. It tells you noting about how your body is responding to the virus or if you already had it.

The antibody test is the opposite of that. It is detecting that your body has seen this virus and has started to respond to it. These protein-based tests are easy to create, easy to manufacture at a large scale, can be very cheap, and can even be packaged to be administered at home (pregnancy test). The main problems with them are that if you have the virus but your immune system hasn’t started to respond yet, it won’t tell you that. It also is of course a protein test so there is no magic way to amplify the signal like DNA/RNA has with PCR, so they are less sensitive. They also tend to be less specific in that it is easier for other similar antibodies to cross-react or interfere with the results. Finally, with them being cheaper, easier to make, and available outside of controlled lab environments, the prevalence of user error is much higher than with PCR based tests.

So the whole thing is definitely a balancing act. Which one to use changes by what question you are are asking. Option 2A? 1B? Both? Then add in time, environment, and a whole host of other factors. It is all about gathering the proper information to give you the best available data to make the decisions you need to make.

You will also notice that 2A and 1B aren’t the only options from the list above. You could also have option 1A, where you are detecting proteins present in the pathogen. Or you could have option 2B, where you are detecting the DNA of our body’s immune response, effectively looking at a genetic picture of how our body is responding to the virus during the course of the disease.

Remembering back to this post...now there is the 1A option where they are detecting viral proteins: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtec...care-screening
Has all the pros of the antibody test (cheap, fast, can be mass produced) + you don't have to wait for immune response. But also has the drawbacks of that test (sensitivity/specificity issues, can be miss-used easily).

[Tri-Ungulate]

I'm interested in the 2A option of a hybrid assay that uses RT-LAMP and CRISPR-Cas12 reporter (3 groups working on it) as a fast, cheap, mass produced test that will likely have greater sensitivity and specificity, especially once it gets optimized.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I’m not saying there’s a law. Although there could be since the only site was Australia and they said they wouldn’t ship to us.

But find me any site or store that will sell me old fashioned paste glue.

I haven’t searched for five or ten years. But yeah. It is not for sale.

Mmmmmmm. I never ate it. But I still remember that smell.
Which is why I tried to buy some for my kids years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Paste-Glu.../dp/B006Q764Z6

[AK47bp]

paste is illegal in the us? Where do you get this dumbfuckery?

Probably due to it’s deliciousness.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Core Shot]

https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Paste-Glu.../dp/B006Q764Z6

That ain’t it.

You may be too young. Or maybe you ate too much paste

[XXX-er]

you know I never even thot of eating paste

but my mom could cook

[KQ]

Here's the signage for the task force briefing today. These idiots are so fucking predictably pedantic. Gonna be gobbled up by the sheeple as usual.

Oh snap! They made a typo - should be "Deaths" instead of "Testing"

[Ottime]

paste is illegal in the us? Where do you get this dumbfuckery?

It is Core Shot. Nothing but dumbfuckery from that guy.

[Core Shot]

It is Core Shot. Nothing but dumbfuckery from that guy.

Find me a site where I can buy the old school paste I loved to sniff and you liked to eat.

Challenge accepted? Or puss out?

[Core Shot]

Sweet thread drift.
I’m gonna have glue for dinner

[bennymac]

[Benny Profane]

At least we're in good company.

Hey, wait. We have the most tests! The best tests! We are giving those tests away, we have so many.

[old goat]

Check this out: https://www.sciencealert.com/not-all...tective-effect

Along with that, 2 seconds of Googling will show you how bacteria DO wage war against viruses. We're a throwing a lot out of whack by over sanitizing the crap out of everything.

Sure, it's good to practice cleanliness, good hand washing, etc., but our society has gone WAAAAAAAAAY overboard lately. Make way for the superbugs, folks!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

Our nasal cavities are colonized with multiple bacteria at all times. Some of the bacterial species commonly found--Strep, staph aureus, H flu (that's a bacteria not the flu bug) are the most common cause of pneumonia, and yet most people don't get infected even though they carry them. While viruses are present as well they don't seem to hinder the presence of these bacteria. Nonetheless, snorting disinfectants is also a bad idea.

As far as disinfecting surfaces--the common disinfectants used--Na hypochlorite (bleach) and Lysol (mostly ethanol--have been in widespread use for many many decades without resistance becoming an issue. I cannot see how disinfecting man made surfaces with these products is "throwing a lot out of whack". Don't extrapolate from the harmful effects of feeding antibiotics to cows for example. And there is no need to use disinfectants on our hands or bodies when soap and water are available.

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one thinking that--KQ's posts have felt way too familiar lately. Only difference is I'm dealing with dentists instead of just average morons (my wife does the shopping lately, so I've been missing most of those).

I'm working about 70 or so hours a week now trying to keep my actual paying job while building PPE for my wife because as a dental hygienist she's basically a state-licensed meat packing plant worker: essential as long as we don't mean money and expected to accept risk or fend for themselves. And smile while the maskless vectors she calls co-workers greet patients with a thermometer as their lone concession to COVID-theater before sitting back down in the group or walking through operatories like this was all just an inconvenient scam.

The worst part of lock down is the stress of arguing with fucking idiots. Particularly galling when they are "educated" and licensed and have an ethical responsibility to public health. Or would have if ethics hadn't been traded out when the lemming-march was retitled "standard of care." Which is convenient when a licensed professional wants to deny peer-reviewed science but still claim to be making decisions using science.

Apologies to anyone I've snapped at lately. It might have been partly you but it was definitely all me.

The wide availabliity of a quick and very sensitive antigen test would be a godsend for dentists. In that setting perfect sensitivity would not be necessary. Positives could be sent for more specific testing and those found to be false positives could return for their dental care.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...sed-sound-data

Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy backs up their analysis with studies while the CDC backs up their guidelines with... nothing but feel good virtue signaling.

"Sweeping mask recommendations—as many have proposed—will not reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission, as evidenced by the widespread practice of wearing such masks in Hubei province, China, before and during its mass COVID-19 transmission experience earlier this year. Our review of relevant studies indicates that cloth masks will be ineffective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as PPE."

"Kellogg,²¹ seeking a reason for the failure of cloth masks required for the public in stopping the 1918 influenza pandemic, found that the number of cloth layers needed to achieve acceptable efficiency made them difficult to breathe through and caused leakage around the mask. We found no well-designed studies of cloth masks as source control in household or healthcare settings."

"In sum, given the paucity of information about their performance as source control in real-world settings, along with the extremely low efficiency of cloth masks as filters and their poor fit, there is no evidence to support their use by the public or healthcare workers to control the emission of particles from the wearer."

"In sum, wearing surgical masks in households appears to have very little impact on transmission of respiratory disease. One possible reason may be that masks are not likely worn continuously in households. These data suggest that surgical masks worn by the public will have no or very low impact on disease transmission during a pandemic.

There is no evidence that surgical masks worn by healthcare workers are effective at limiting the emission of small particles or in preventing contamination of wounds during surgery."

We're not talking about surgery here. The vast majority of wound infections are caused by the patient's own bacteria. If there is some very small benefit from masks it would be hidden by the much larger number of infections from the patient's flora.

The main benefit of a cloth or simple surgical mask is physically blocking the passage of large droplets with coughing, sneezing, yelling, speaking. This benefit would not be observed in a lab study of filtration efficiency. Cough or sneeze in your mask, then look at what the mask trapped. Just wear a mask for a prolonged period and see what collects. Wearing a simple mask for a prolonged period in a confined space wouldn't be expected to reduce viral load in the air or on surfaces--too much would leak through or around. The benefit would be for someone in close proximity to the wearer while the wearer is talking, sneezing,etc. And even if all transmission is not prevented, if we accept that reducing viral load reduces the likelihood or severity of infection than any reduction in transmission is beneficial.

The countries were the pandemic has been best contained are places where mask wearing is very common. Obviously there are so many other differences between those places and here that we can't make much out of that fact, but it certainly points in the direction of masks being beneficial

[summit]

This thread moves way too fast. Have we gone over the concept that everyone constantly wearing a mask and sanitizing their hands a million times a day is doing more harm than good? Regardless of the actual risk of getting covid. Take that out of the question. I'm talking as a human who has decided to start killing as much of the good bacteria as possible on their body over the last 2ish months. I've been doing it too, but starting to wonder if I am being foolish in a way. Destroying so much of my bodies natural defenses over the potential fear of one disease and therefor opening myself up to all sorts of other infections in the process....or in the near future? Are we just gonna wear masks forever and all become frail little hermits?

I know this kind of talk puts me into "crazy asshole" territory, but I think it needs to be discussed. Sorry again if the thread has gone over this already.

Not crazy asshole, just dirty tard.

It's washing your goddamned hands not bathing 25 times a day. FFS! Did you not wash your hands before?