Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[Conundrum]

Um, how about, cancer isn't contagious?

Agreed. I almost typed it but the those who want to get the economy open don't want to talk about that. They just want to talk about current death counts and science and modeling be damned.

[Deebased]

About 50,000 deaths per month in the US due to cancer and that number is fairly consistent over the last few years. Covid is listed at 70,000 in the last five weeks. Not looking to debate whether or not anyone believes the numbers for Covid deaths. Looks like Covid is punching right in its weight class.

The money overlords will always have an "acceptable" amount of death to keep making money. Covid is fucking with their models because it's contagious and the money guys can't figure out how bad it will be.

My bet is if the current administration could with low error say we are only going to lose 50,000 per month and plan on that number, we'd be back to business as usual already. They're scared and they're scared to let the public know that with the election coming up.

I'd agree. Except admitting 50k/month is a death sentence for the orange man's re-election plans.

Understandably, no politician is willing to take that hit, but we can quickly put the Covid death modeling into context, with other leading killers (although C19 will likely be a one or two year blip).

[Benny Profane]

With the nature of c19 they can’t. The problem with “reopening” is the businesses where ~50% of the workers get sick https://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...094aef5b5.html


see similar with the meat packing plants, etc. hard to run a biz with no workers.

so what trumps going to do instead is bullshit about it.

Actually, what he and the Senate are trying to do is write immunity laws for businesses that obviously will be sued for this behavior.

[Deebased]

Um, how about, cancer isn't contagious?

Worse yet, its caused by all sorts of environmental issues. Imagine if C19 was caused by pollution.

Oh wait. https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-air-pollution


on a side note, Cancer is contagious through tissue/organ transplants.

[Timberridge]

Cancer is contagious through tissue/organ transplants.

This is good info.

[Ottime]

What's your job in the medical profession?

He finds porn for the other dentist.

[The AD]

on a side note, Cancer is contagious through tissue/organ transplants.

Also HPV can cause cancer and it's transmitted sexually. I know that's not the same as being contagious, of course. Otherwise there's really no comparison between COVID-19 and cancer.

[jono]

He finds porn for the other dentist.

We're down to the last one? Shit. That explains a few things.

[splat]

Everyone has a right to protest but let's not pretend the protests are organic. The protesters are being used to cover up the fact that there is no Trump Government strategy to safely open things back up.

There are a number of national strategies that would allow the economy to reopen while also saving lives. Instead, the administration has chosen gaslighting as the plan. Abdicating to the governors, manufacturing confusion, blaming China, and calling on Trump supporters to protest is part of an all-out blitz to make people believe several thousand Americans dying every day from a new disease is normal—all meant to cover up the complete failure of leadership.

Man, you hit the nail on the head. Only really fucking stupid people are following Dear Leader to their deaths as they listen to his rants thinking only he can save them. How fucking dumb do these people have to be to buy into a complete lack of leadership by Trump?

[MultiVerse]

The economy won't recover until people feel safe.

Psychological manipulation and gaslighting in order to normalize death is a poor substitute for the fact that this is a contagious virus, not a condition of existence.

With no cure or vaccine the clearest way forward is difficult behavioral changes, like wearing masks in public, from most of the population which requires a nationally comprehensible and consistent message.

Other countries are managing to protect the economy and contain the virus.

[TG]

from a letter to talkingpointsmemo.com :

I’m a critical care nurse working in a COVID ICU. I’ve practiced nursing in a variety of settings, from helping to run an Ebola Treatment Unit in Liberia to coordinating mass vaccination campaigns during the H1N1 pandemic. I’m also a former political professional who really appreciates your insight and analysis.

One thing that I feel is really missing from the public discussion about COVID is the surprisingly high rates of (likely) permanent disability among those who become critically ill.

Most non-medical people seem to discuss outcomes as if they were a binary, rather than a spectrum; what percentage live, what percentage die. That binary is not reflective of the clinical realities we’re facing.
I don’t think it’s terribly well understood why there’s such a high rate of organ damage among COVID patients, though there seems to be a developing consensus that microthrombotic complications play a big role.
But whatever the cause, it’s important to understand this: while most COVID patients don’t need ICU care, a troublingly high number of those who do end up in kidney failure or with profound neurological deficits. Several patients at work have been off all sedation for almost a week, and show no signs of waking up — I doubt that they ever will. And people with kidney failure may need dialysis for life. When the discussion is limited to false binaries of deaths vs recoveries, these cases get left out of the dialogue.
I’m a clinician, not a researcher. I don’t have hard data for you, on this particular matter. But you can bounce this off clinicians at any busy COVID unit in the world and I’m confident that they’ll tell you the same.
I’m not going to speculate about the numbers, but I will say this. If you had a crystal ball, and you told me that when this was over the number of cases that lived but with severe and profound disability would be more than 5 times the number of people who died, I would not feel surprised by that prediction. And that’s not a trivial number.
Stay safe.

get it, recover, go back to normal.
not always the case

[Deebased]

Also HPV can cause cancer and it's transmitted sexually. I know that's not the same as being contagious, of course. Otherwise there's really no comparison between COVID-19 and cancer.

No comparison needed.

Cancer is simply an example that exploits the bullshit "empathy for Grandma" C19 argument exposing it for what it is.

We've got a shitload of fear-based group think preying upon boomer's mortality.

Why do you think the AP posts daily articles about the handful of young adults that died from c19? Cancer kills 17k u-19's annually. Cancer kills more in 3 years than the worst case scenario C19 models.

[highangle]

Worse yet, its caused by all sorts of environmental issues. Imagine if C19 was caused by masturbation.

False equivalences are false, Dooshbased. You should try to not to rely on them so much.

[jono]

We've got a shitload of fear-based group think

It's troubling to see how many people are outing themselves as emotion-only decision makers by claiming others are acting out of fear. If that's the only explanation that makes sense to you then you are a fear-based thinker. Vibes and all but STFU and let the adults talk.

[ron johnson]

For those attacking Dhelihiker,

What exactly is your plan? Is it to just lockdown for a year and hope we have a vaccine by then?

[The AD]

No comparison needed.

Cancer is simply an example that exploits the bullshit "empathy for Grandma" C19 argument exposing it for what it is.

How do you figure? No one wants anyone to die from cancer either, but shutting down the country won't help fix that.

[Ottime]

I’ve learned we should be against cancer too. Thanks for all that information about how cancer is actually a pretty bad thing. Cool. Good to know.

So does that mean COVID ain’t so bad?

Any one have thoughts on the kids in NYC who recovered from COVID but are now showing symptoms of Kawasaki?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...en-11588698902

Story is only a day old, but wanted to hear what our professional porn searcher thinks about it. He seems to have a handle on this whole thing.

Fake news, or is COVID new, strange and unknown?

[mcski]

It sure was when we found the lost ark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcR9k8o4I0w

I wonder if masks would have protected them?

[The AD]

Any one have thoughts on the kids in NYC who recovered from COVID but are now showing symptoms of Kawasaki?

[Flounder]

For those attacking Dhelihiker,

What exactly is your plan? Is it to just lockdown for a year and hope we have a vaccine by then?

How about we do what other countries are doing to successfully reopen. National wide spread testing plan, contact tracing, a nation that embraces simple social distancing and a willingness to wear masks to prevent the spread? Also need to make sure PPE is available not only to medical personnel but also to front line workers.

It's not rocket surgery but it's not going to happen in the US anytime soon.

[MultiVerse]

It's also important to point out framing this as lockdowns vs reopening requires the assumption that an unsafe reopening will work.

We're already on the brink of an economic disaster, going through this again will be worse. An unsafe reopening → accelerating spread → increased death → renewed lockdown. Rinse, repeat, until the economy is wrecked.

Even if you think this is no big deal, that masks are dumb, and large gatherings should be allowed, for the sake of your own economic future embracing some combination of the following is still acting in your own best interest:

1 - High-filtration surgical masks
2 - Physical distancing, that is no large public gatherings
3 - Personal and public hygiene
4 - Self quarantine in the advent of any symptoms

Letting individuals, within reason, decide for themselves which risks to take is likely the best plan. People can make more or less risk-averse choices as long as leaders make clear bad choices pose a significant threat to their fellow citizens.

Not everyone has to buy in, but for any plan to work probably requires a supermajority.

[jono]

I wonder if masks would have protected them?

Of course. But only Pence masks.

[dunfree]

It's also important to point out framing this as lockdowns vs reopening requires the assumption that an unsafe reopening will work.

We're already on the brink of an economic disaster, going through this again will be worse. An unsafe reopening → accelerating spread → increased death → renewed lockdown. Rinse, repeat, until the economy is wrecked.

Even if you think this is no big deal, that masks are dumb, and large gatherings should be allowed, for the sake of your own economic future embracing some combination of the following is still acting in your own best interest:

1 - High-filtration surgical masks
2 - Physical distancing, that is no large public gatherings
3 - Personal and public hygiene
4 - Self quarantine in the advent of any symptoms

Letting individuals, within reason, decide for themselves which risks to take is likely the best plan. People can make more or less risk-averse choices as long as leaders make clear bad choices pose a significant threat to their fellow citizens.

It also requires “lockdowns” which the us doesn’t have.

[Dantheman]

The fuck are you talking about? Of course it's been talked about. It's one of the central themes of the whole thread.

Right? FFS....

With the nature of c19 they can’t. The problem with “reopening” is the businesses where ~50% of the workers get sick https://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...094aef5b5.html


see similar with the meat packing plants, etc. hard to run a biz with no workers.

so what trumps going to do instead is bullshit about it.

Of course that happened in Utah County.

It's amazing to see the meat packing plant closures happening despite social distancing efforts, and the Dheli-types still think the economy would be cruising along just fine in a "take it on the chin/let people decide their own risk tolerance" scenario. I've said this in various ways multiple times already, but the economy would be so much more fucked in Dheli's ideal world. What if, instead of a couple isolated plants being shut down due to widespread outbreaks among workers, half of them or more all went down at once? Or what about distribution? The average trucker has multiple chronic health conditions, 5-10% of them could die in two months and another 10-20% could survive following extensive hospitalization only to emerge permanently disabled. At any given time over a period of 2-3 months easily 20-30% of truckers could be dying, hospitalized, or simply too sick to drive. Forget temporary toilet paper stocking issues, we'd be facing the potential collapse of the entire distribution system that provides us with food and basic goods. It's a terrifying prospect.

As for the non-essential sectors of the economy, the idea that people would still be going to bars and restaurants, attending sporting events, flying on airplanes, etc. while 20,000 people are dying per day and food is being rationed (see above) is beyond laughable.

from a letter to talkingpointsmemo.com :


get it, recover, go back to normal.
not always the case

Yeah, that's scary. Even the binary scenario illuminates how terrible people are at assessing low-probability/high-consequence risk. Sure, 80% of COVID deaths are 65 and older. Flip that around and 1-in-5 deaths are 25-64. If you walked up to a carnival ride and the toothless carnie running it told you that only 1-in-5 people your age die riding it, would you really get on that ride? Fuck no you wouldn't.

It's troubling to see how many people are outing themselves as emotion-only decision makers by claiming others are acting out of fear. If that's the only explanation that makes sense to you then you are a fear-based thinker. Vibes and all but STFU and let the adults talk.

Deebs is a troll who just shitposts to entertain himself. He exclusively posts in PoliAss and PoliAss-adjacent threads like this one. Don't waste your time.

[Deebased]

How do you figure? No one wants anyone to die from cancer either, but shutting down the country won't help fix that.

If you keep people away from chemicals, sun and thousands of other environmental carcinogens it will.


Hell let's force people to exercise 30 minutes a day while we're at it. That'll do wonders for heart disease.