Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

[ncskier]

Many of the "back to work" protesters are there because of the total failure of the government to provide meaningful assistance to people after effectively ordering them to stop working. $1200 is a fucking joke, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is full of shit, hopelessly out of touch, or both. We're reaping what we sowed.

This is completely spot on.

[Smoova]

I for one am working and so is the wife.
But to sit in my ivory tower and blast people for protesting to open up their states is tough. I couldn't imagine trying to feed and house my family after 5-6 weeks and watching people laughing and having virtual happy hours on zoom. Not to mention the PPP was a total fraud for most now that we are seeing it apparently meant 500 per location not 500 employees total. I mean Harvard with it's 40 billion endowment got 9 million.

It's sad and tough and but when the whole country says once again I got mine and you are forced to sit on the sidelines yet again, it's not fair for judge them at this point. I honestly can't believe more aren't rioting yet. That $1200 is going to last most about 20-40 days max.

For the record I am going to get blasted by the social justice warriors here, but I don't think it's smart per se, but I do understand the tension is building to get back to work. That's all

This is a fair point. As a counterpoint, I know two people who attended a protest in Colorado over the weekend. Both are working from home and have not suffered any negative economic consequences due to COVID-19, but both are terrified that the continued shut-down seriously endangers Trump's chances of being re-elected because (i) the economy (Trump's crowning achievement) stays dormant for longer and (ii) Trump's nightly press conferences expose his true, flawed character to the national electorate. For them, the protests are purely political.

[Rideski]

This is also true. However, I also realize someone has to get in the water first. It's fine if you decide you don't want to, but if you're a barber in Utah and you've only had a few hundred cases in the state, I understand if you think you are ready to take the risk, put on a mask and take the risk. I know if I had no saving, a rent payment and a wife and kids that needed me, I'd be cutting hair with a mask and face shield for now.
I do think so many people are scared but I all I am saying is that I understand the pressure is mounting and mounting quick.

Not saying you’re wrong about this particular point. There’s some starving people for sure. Why can’t the protesters wear masks and spread out a bit? Can’t they do some protesting on the phone and online?

Denver dodged a bullet that I don’t think we would have, without some isolating. To have them wipe out those gains is hard to watch. At least it was delayed until our Gov declared masks on essential workers required.

[The AD]

Many of the "back to work" protesters are there because of the total failure of the government to provide meaningful assistance to people after effectively ordering them to stop working. $1200 is a fucking joke, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is full of shit, hopelessly out of touch, or both. We're reaping what we sowed.

If you tell people to just sit on their hands and you offer them a pittance for help, they're going to do what they need to do to continue to provide for themselves, even if it endangers them and others. I'm not going to pass judgement one way or another, but I will say that it is a goddamn shame that it has come to this in the United States.

I think this is a solid point and shows that they are protesting exactly the wrong thing.

[Casey E]

The Iranians are onto something

“Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader, says covid-19 might be the work of jinns (evil spirits) working with America.”

Heads up guys....

https://www.economist.com/middle-eas...medical-advice

[ncskier]

This is a fair point. As a counterpoint, I know two people who attended a protest in Colorado over the weekend. Both are working from home and have not suffered any negative economic consequences due to COVID-19, but both are terrified that the continued shut-down seriously endangers Trump's chances of being re-elected because (i) the economy (Trump's crowning achievement) stays dormant for longer and (ii) Trump's nightly press conferences expose his true, flawed character to the national electorate. For them, the protests are purely political.

Since I don't have the ability to read minds and I trust what you are saying, I am merely pointing out this country is having it's "let them eat cake" moment. Whether or not the protests manifest peoples intentions correctly, in fact, many more are sitting home just scared as hell, I am going to have some sympathy for the silent Americans who I can deduce are probably suffering.
Many of the posts here smack of elitism because you just can't understand working a tech job and having money how someone could be so "stupid" to want to risk their lives. Throw in Trump as some gasoline and it's an us vs them situation yet again.
Just a sad situation.

[iceman]

Many of the posts here smack of elitism because you just can't understand working a tech job and having money how someone could be so "stupid" to want to risk their lives.

That's a straw man. Who said that? Who even indicated that they thought that?

People are doing stupid shit but it's not the people reporting to work that are the problem, it's the morons insisting they should be able to have a beach party or a huge religious service or who refuse to wear a mask to go in a store or a million other little stupid useless things that are counterproductive and bring no benefit to anybody.

It's not the brave people going to work that are an issue, it's the fucking idiots. Most of whom appear to be Trump supporters.

[Smoova]

Since I don't have the ability to read minds and I trust what you are saying, I am merely pointing out this country is having it's "let them eat cake" moment. Whether or not the protests manifest peoples intentions correctly, in fact, many more are sitting home just scared as hell, I am going to have some sympathy for the silent Americans who I can deduce are probably suffering.
Many of the posts here smack of elitism because you just can't understand working a tech job and having money how someone could be so "stupid" to want to risk their lives. Throw in Trump as some gasoline and it's an us vs them situation yet again.
Just a sad situation.

I generally agree with your points, just adding a little more color to a very complicated picture.

[The AD]

If people are willing to risks their lives that's one thing, but these people are risking other peoples' lives, too. That's really what makes it wrong.

[skaredshtles]

I think this is a solid point and shows that they are protesting exactly the wrong thing.

You'd think that they would realize that their time would be better spent pulling themselves up by their bootstraps than protesting their States' governments.

[MultiVerse]

Many of the "back to work" protesters are there because of the total failure of the government to provide meaningful assistance to people after effectively ordering them to stop working. $1200 is a fucking joke, and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is full of shit, hopelessly out of touch, or both. We're reaping what we sowed.

In my opinion we should have figured out a way to pay more workers directly, not layoffs, not unemployment, but unemployment assistance does exist. The rules have been loosened and many low wage employees are better off financially, at least in the short term. In addition to normal unemployment and the $1,200 stimulus payment, unemployed small business workers receive an additional $2,400 a month.

[ncskier]

If people are willing to risks their lives that's one thing, but these people are risking other peoples' lives, too. That's really what makes it wrong.

Completely fair point. Wife works in healthcare. NP in large health system. So yes there is a part of me that thinks stay home and keep her and my family safe. Less that come in, the better. However, I'm merely pointing out that I am sympathetic to someone saying they have to get back to work and take the risk also.

[Rideski]

unemployed small business workers receive an additional $2,400 a month.

Bullshit

[Core Shot]

Bullshit

Nope
If you are on unemployment, you get a bonus $600 a week. That's $2,400 a month last time i did maths

My dilemma is PPP wants me to put folks back on the payroll even if I have no work. Which is fine with me, but for the lower paid staff, they make more on unemployment.

This bailout is fucked. they really should have planned it better.

[dunfree]

Since I don't have the ability to read minds and I trust what you are saying, I am merely pointing out this country is having it's "let them eat cake" moment. Whether or not the protests manifest peoples intentions correctly, in fact, many more are sitting home just scared as hell, I am going to have some sympathy for the silent Americans who I can deduce are probably suffering.
Many of the posts here smack of elitism because you just can't understand working a tech job and having money how someone could be so "stupid" to want to risk their lives. Throw in Trump as some gasoline and it's an us vs them situation yet again.
Just a sad situation.

the saddest part is the bad faith & wrong framing of “health” vs “back to work”. Those stupid cunts protesting last Friday drove past dozens of hurting small businesses on Friday and didn’t spend a dime. Fuck them.

and yes, it’s a “let them eat cake” moment. Nobody gets near Trump without being tested. He wants us to die. Fuck that, fuck him.

[bennymac]

that... and Carol baskins killed her husband.

Sent from my SM-N960U using TGR Forums mobile app

I believe it’s pronounced “that fuckin’ Carol Baskins”

[Rideski]

If a person made less than $2500 a quarter, they are ineligible for unemployment. Aka, the most at risk. Additionally, people that have been filing claims are getting no replies. I’m sure some are getting paid, but don’t delude yourself from your ivory towers that everyone is.

[hutash]

I don't really have a problem with the message of the protests, but the manner of them. If people are going to protest, at least try and show you understand the problem and want to fix it while being able to work. Showing up in camp, armed to the teeth, gathering in groups without regard to viral spread is just plain stupid. This is not an issue of freedom, but about the desire to work. I suspect there are some work arounds to get some areas and some people working (barber example above), but taking it to the streets in this manner endangers not only the protesters, but many others who will have to deal with their sick asses...Harold among them.

[Buster Highmen]

This is completely spot on.

Yes. But the failure of the government is what a lot of them voted for.

FWIW, I'm not sneering or experiencing any schadenfreude for what a lot of people are experiencing. It sucks, but this is one of the hard realities of how insane it is when the have nots vote that way.

[Benny Profane]

Maybe you need to read it again? It's simple, though: you posted an article that was so dripping with political vitriol that it didn't have any room left for critical analysis or useful comment. And you posted it with a comment about people who want the politics removed from this thread, as if they should go read a vitriolic article. It was a bad post. You catch a lot of non-specific crap for your posts, some justifiable and some not, so I figured I'd offer you a specific critique in the hope that you might find it useful. In short: that article belonged in poliass not PR. And if you're going to post in both places you should take a second on the Googles and find a source that's worthy of polite (or at least intelligent) discussion before bringing it here.

Easy rule: if you can't find a legit source it might just be bullshit. And if it's so egregious that you have to tell people, then it's important enough to do it right.

Shut the fuck up already

[glademaster]

That may be but you're delusional if you think a democratic administration would have handled the distribution of assistance any better.

The initial response to the virus is a different matter.

[glademaster]

Don't corporations have savings for shit like this? Oh wait, no they don't. They rely on the government to bail them out.

FIFY

[plugboots]

A Democrat would have held up the checks so his/her name could be on those checks?

[ncskier]

Don't people have savings for shit like this? Oh wait, no they don't. They rely on the government to bail them out.

Well this is true. But really eye opening because for years the message when an employee needed something, employers thought they were generous with offering something like unpaid leave. Like they couldn't believe their dumb employees didn't save for a rainy day.
Now the cat's out of the bag and guess what, the employers didn't save for a rainy day either.
The lesson of 08 and now is to owe so much money that you become a structural risk to the world and you get bailed out no strings attached. Even no stock buybacks is really only hurting shareholders. I am not aware of provisions that capped pay or perks such as golden parachutes, corporate jets, retreats etc.

[MultiVerse]

If a person made less than $2500 a month, they are ineligible for unemployment. Aka, the most at risk. Additionally, people that have been filing claims are getting no replies. I’m sure some are getting paid, but don’t delude yourself from your ivory towers that everyone is.

To the extent that's true it shows how far behind the United States is compared with other wealthy countries with its labor-market policies. But as others have pointed out, blaming state government (+1 for Hutash) is an act of denial that risks prolonging the crisis. It's magical thinking to assume removing all government restrictions will automatically restore business owner and consumer confidence.

I don't really have a problem with the message of the protests, but the manner of them. If people are going to protest, at least try and show you understand the problem and want to fix it while being able to work. Showing up in camp, armed to the teeth, gathering in groups without regard to viral spread is just plain stupid. This is not an issue of freedom, but about the desire to work. I suspect there are some work arounds to get some areas and some people working (barber example above), but taking it to the streets in this manner endangers not only the protesters, but many others who will have to deal with their sick asses...Harold among them.