The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[sruffian]

Looking at replacing dynafit rad 2.0 st10's on a pair of bmt 94's for the weight savings. While the st's are cush for a pin binding, it's still an effing pin binding might as well shed the weight

Trying to minimize holes in the BMT's.

From what I can tell, I'd be putting 8 new holes in the skis to get to anything lighter. Rad 2 toes are wider than the old mount pattern (so no ssl toe swap), and the heel is way longer than anything super light according to the skimo.co chart

Before I make a plan and drill away - am I missing anything?

[galibier_numero_un]

Most weight savings is at the heel. I'm guessing that your Radical toes give up only about 75g, with the bulk of the binding's weight being at the heel.

Skimo sells individual heels.https://skimo.co/binding-parts

They also document hole patterns here: https://skimo.co/tech-binding-hole-patterns

I don't think you'll find another toe with the same pattern.

... Thom

[Eluder]

2.0's have the rotating toes and kiss gap heels. I am not sure if you can use other heels in place of them... Also I bet you give up more than 75g per toe as the bindings are 642g a side.

[galibier_numero_un]

2.0's have the rotating toes and kiss gap heels. I am not sure if you can use other heels in place of them... Also I bet you give up more than 75g per toe as the bindings are 642g a side.

Ah! I thought "Rotation" was in the name of all of the rotating toes.

Never mind.

So yeah, assuming it's something like a "Radical ST 2.0", then skimo has the weight of the toe at 223g which 23g heavier than an ATK Haute Route/Helio 200 (toe and heel combined), about 100g heavier than a typical Dynafit toe and maybe 150g more than the lighter (but not uber light race) toes.

... Thom

[oldmanDennis]

So what's the final word on the helio 200 heel risers? Too low or actually just fine?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[galibier_numero_un]

So what's the final word on the helio 200 heel risers? Too low or actually just fine?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I'll add a ramp angle and riser height column to the spreadsheet on the ATK thread tonight (https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=334162). I'll also add a download link (not just a screen shot).

The numbers can tell you more than my subjective experiences can.

In general, if you use the high position on (say) a Plum Guide or Vipecs/Tectons, you'll likely be wanting a higher riser than on the Helio 200s. The way I describe the two flippy positions are low medium (flipper over pins) and medium or medium plus (rotated 180 degrees - pins facing rearward).

... Thom

[meter-man]

Thom, start with this:

https://skimo.co/binding-riser-heights



Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[galibier_numero_un]

Thom, start with this:

https://skimo.co/binding-riser-heights

Thanks. I plugged in their numbers.

When I initially looked at them a few months ago, I didn't trust their results, because their intermediate numbers for the calculation (the raw height of the heel), were (and still are) way off.

Their final number agrees with mine for the two bindings I own (within 0.5mm), so I added their numbers to the spreadsheet, and documented why I left the intermediate numbers out.

... Thom

[frorider]

This season I’ve grown to really like the Alpinist 12.
Skis better than most tech bindings (check out Outdoor Gear Lab and Blister). Never seems to ice up thx to elastomer pads. Can skin (within reason) without locking out into Walk mode in avy terrain. As a corollary, I’ve yet to have a pre-release on a descent. Unlike Salomon Mtn, has a spring loaded heelpiece that may explain the improved skiing feel but also reduces mount hole stress when hyper flexing the ski e.g. weird creek crossings. Works well with a leash or brakes. And.....$280 or so when you get them on sale.

OK sounds like perfect binding in the 260 g (leashes) range right? Unfortunately the tall heel riser is only 55 mm. If you have a 25.0 foot and a decent ROM boot, yer set. But I wear a 29 boot and for steep tracks I need something around 60 mm.

After trying a few different shim designs, I think I’ve found the best solution. A pliable grade of aluminum, and bam...

[sruffian]

What’s the heaviest ski anyone here has skied and liked a 300g binding on?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Dshack89]

I had Marker Alpinists on 2400g renegades and couldn't tell a real difference from the Kingpins they replaced. Probably didnt hurt that I was driving these with burly Lupo Factorys.

[mall walker]

What’s the heaviest ski anyone here has skied and liked a 300g binding on?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I have ATK Trofeo Plus (180g) on 1950g Black Crows Solis and am very happy after 10 days and just over 40k’ vert. could’ve gone with the 145g regular Trofeo but heel adjustment is nice. Tecnica ZGTP boots. awesome setup (skis are 180cm / 100mm).

there’s really no performance difference I have ever discerned across pin bindings (though obviously the alpine style heel bindings like tecton/kingpin/shift may ski differently)... just get the lightest one that has the features you want. I guess if you’re well over 6’ and well over 200lbs and skiing well wider than 110 underfoot very aggressively, maybe you care about the width of the hole pattern...? but I think this is mostly FUD

[TG]

This season I’ve grown to really like the Alpinist 12.
Skis better than most tech bindings (check out Outdoor Gear Lab and Blister). Never seems to ice up thx to elastomer pads. Can skin (within reason) without locking out into Walk mode in avy terrain. As a corollary, I’ve yet to have a pre-release on a descent. Unlike Salomon Mtn, has a spring loaded heelpiece that may explain the improved skiing feel but also reduces mount hole stress when hyper flexing the ski e.g. weird creek crossings. Works well with a leash or brakes. And.....$280 or so when you get them on sale.

OK sounds like perfect binding in the 260 g (leashes) range right? Unfortunately the tall heel riser is only 55 mm. If you have a 25.0 foot and a decent ROM boot, yer set. But I wear a 29 boot and for steep tracks I need something around 60 mm.

After trying a few different shim designs, I think I’ve found the best solution. A pliable grade of aluminum, and bam...

I can't really make it out from the photo, how much extra heel lift does that give you?

[sruffian]

Dshack- had? Didn’t like setup enough to keep around?

Thanks mallwalker - more interested in full size alpine skis 2200-2500g... thinking I’d run into problems skiing big skis w a 1300g boot before a 300g binding...


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Dshack89]

Dshack- had? Didn’t like setup enough to keep around?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I finally decided the Renegades were unnecessarily heavy for touring plus the tip dive got annoying. So, I replaced with some Voile Chargers (with the same Alpinists) and love them. Saved about 600g per foot with the switch.

[hick]

This season I’ve grown to really like the Alpinist 12.
Skis better than most tech bindings (check out Outdoor Gear Lab and Blister). Never seems to ice up thx to elastomer pads. Can skin (within reason) without locking out into Walk mode in avy terrain. As a corollary, I’ve yet to have a pre-release on a descent. Unlike Salomon Mtn, has a spring loaded heelpiece that may explain the improved skiing feel but also reduces mount hole stress when hyper flexing the ski e.g. weird creek crossings. Works well with a leash or brakes. And.....$280 or so when you get them on sale.

OK sounds like perfect binding in the 260 g (leashes) range right? Unfortunately the tall heel riser is only 55 mm. If you have a 25.0 foot and a decent ROM boot, yer set. But I wear a 29 boot and for steep tracks I need something around 60 mm.

After trying a few different shim designs, I think I’ve found the best solution. A pliable grade of aluminum, and bam...

This is part of the reason I gave up on the Alpinists. Mine quickly wore down to where the high climb mode (which isn’t very high), wouldn’t stay down. It drove me crazy! Skinning along and all of a sudden I’m in flat mode, flip back up and repeat. They had little duct tape mods all over them, finally thought this is just silly. Got rid of them and got Salomon mtn labs. Been much happier. Also, Backcountry’s response and Markers response about the issue was less than impressive. First and last Markers in 30+ years of skiing. I knew better.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Dshack89]

This is part of the reason I gave up on the Alpinists. Mine quickly wore down to where the high climb mode (which isn’t very high), wouldn’t stay down. It drove me crazy! Skinning along and all of a sudden I’m in flat mode, flip back up and repeat. They had little duct tape mods all over them, finally thought this is just silly. Got rid of them and got Salomon mtn labs. Been much happier. Also, Backcountry’s response and Markers response about the issue was less than impressive. First and last Markers in 30+ years of skiing. I knew better.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Weird, I've never had that issue with my Alpinists. And just to clarify, it looks like frorider's mod was to increase the riser height, not fix an issue with the riser flipping up.

I do think the biggest consideration for the Alpinist is the relatively low riser height. You want flexible ankles and/or good ROM boots.

[alpinevibes]

Dshack- had? Didn’t like setup enough to keep around?

Thanks mallwalker - more interested in full size alpine skis 2200-2500g... thinking I’d run into problems skiing big skis w a 1300g boot before a 300g binding...


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Curious - Are you intentionally planning to ski the heaviest ski with a very light binding?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[LeeLau]

This is part of the reason I gave up on the Alpinists. Mine quickly wore down to where the high climb mode (which isn’t very high), wouldn’t stay down. It drove me crazy! Skinning along and all of a sudden I’m in flat mode, flip back up and repeat. They had little duct tape mods all over them, finally thought this is just silly. Got rid of them and got Salomon mtn labs. Been much happier. Also, Backcountry’s response and Markers response about the issue was less than impressive. First and last Markers in 30+ years of skiing. I knew better.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I got hold of a place with a rivet press. They pressed the high climb mode which took out the play. Since then it's been fine. Like frorider I've had zero complaints after 100+ days

[frorider]

I can't really make it out from the photo, how much extra heel lift does that give you?

Thought my text made it clear, sorry. Stock height 55, shimmed height 60 mm. Obviously I could use thicker aluminum but 60 is just tall enough for those straight up spring hardpack sections but not too tall for general skinning.

I tried a variety of shim approaches...on the lever and on the binding body. This approach won out.

[sruffian]

Curious - Are you intentionally planning to ski the heaviest ski with a very light binding?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

not per se - not looking at skiing a 180g binding on a dual sheet titanal charger. I just know that I can do 5-7k days on a 2600g set up, and if I could use, say a 188 stock layup quixote with mtn's, atk rt10s or alpinists that's an interesting proposition. Based on my experience with the atk's, that's completely doable

[hick]

I got hold of a place with a rivet press. They pressed the high climb mode which took out the play. Since then it's been fine. Like frorider I've had zero complaints after 100+ days

A friend of mine had the same issue and has been looking for a fix. This sounds interesting, but I still think ridiculous to have to mod a binding to make it work these days. That being said, I never had any issues with how they skied. Skied great actually.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[galibier_numero_un]

A friend of mine had the same issue and has been looking for a fix. This sounds interesting, but I still think ridiculous to have to mod a binding to make it work these days. That being said, I never had any issues with how they skied. Skied great actually.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

So, if your buddy sent it back to Marker, he'd pay for shipping, wait for months, and have the same repair performed.

Of course this shouldn't happen, but manufactured parts are built with tolerances, and sometimes things slip through QC (it only takes .001" or so for a pin to be too loose). It's a repair and not a mod, BTW (sorry to nitpick).

Just be happy that it's not a busted Kingpin and move on.

... Thom

[LeeLau]

A friend of mine had the same issue and has been looking for a fix. This sounds interesting, but I still think ridiculous to have to mod a binding to make it work these days. That being said, I never had any issues with how they skied. Skied great actually.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

It wasn't a big deal though...like thom said parts wear. It cost $10 and I had over 100 days with that as the only issue

[meter-man]

Pretty funny and harsh Blister "review" of the Xenic. https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...VGBBIY7YMbBX18