Why all the Caroline Gleich hate?

[dunfree]

I’m not downplaying individual changes in lifestyle, but if the power grid and all new cars turned renewable, then the rest of it wouldn’t really matter.

There may not be climate-change impact from some renewable sources of energy but there is most definitely environmental impact. Daming rivers, solar arrays take up tons of land, etc. etc. There's no free lunch. Really, this attitude is a gift to polluters because it's so transparently facile and false. Own your hyperconsumption and it's impacts, don't bullshit them away.

[TahoeJ]

Yeah, but all that means is that the US collectively drives a lot more than it flies. It doesn't mean that for an individual's choices, flying has a smaller footprint than driving.

No, it means there are bigger fish to fry. Airplane travel certainly doesn't help, but if we grounded all planes tomorrow it would make fuck all of a difference.

[Kirby]

Individual actions give legitimacy to systemic movements.


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[Supermoon]

There may not be climate-change impact from some renewable sources of energy but there is most definitely environmental impact. Daming rivers, solar arrays take up tons of land, etc. etc. There's no free lunch. Really, this attitude is a gift to polluters because it's so transparently facile and false. Own your hyperconsumption and it's impacts, don't bullshit them away.

That was just a climate oriented reply, in response to a critique of the carbon output of a helicopter. I’m happy to discuss your idea about what to do for either our carbon output, environmental impacts, or your own personal lifestyle that makes you so perfect ecologically that you think you are in a place to critique others.

I’ve done plenty to reduce my footprint over the last few years, but I do it so I feel better about myself, not because I think my small changes will affect the global climate to any level. My time and money is best spent pressuring decision makers and supporting people, groups and yes, companies, that are working towards similar goals.

[LightRanger]

Individual actions give legitimacy to systemic movements.


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I don't disagree. That's why, say, Greta Thunberg's sailing to the United States was a good idea. Her flight over wouldn't have mattered, in the grand scheme of things, but she's setting a good example.

I generally think the critique is overblown though. And especially when people use it as a convenient excuse to completely dismiss people out of hand.

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[jono]

I generally think the critique is overblown though. And especially when people use it as a convenient excuse to completely dismiss people out of hand.

True enough, but isn't the point of advocating to convince people who aren't already convinced? It is known that many such people are looking for convenient excuses, so offering them up is at best ineffectual and at worst actually provides the whataboutist with ammunition that helps them ignore more effective advocates. (If legislators won't listen to scientists, send in the outdoorsy!?! Meh.)

OP claimed to be looking for hate-splainers, and none of this rises to that level. Borrowing from Buster, those concerned with hypocrisy have to start with own own. But the critique of her actions as they impact her effectiveness is still true as far as it goes.

[LightRanger]

True enough, but isn't the point of advocating to convince people who aren't already convinced? It is known that many such people are looking for convenient excuses, so offering them up is at best ineffectual and at worst actually provides the whataboutist with ammunition that helps them ignore more effective advocates. (If legislators won't listen to scientists, send in the outdoorsy!?! Meh.)

OP claimed to be looking for hate-splainers, and none of this rises to that level. Borrowing from Buster, those concerned with hypocrisy have to start with own own. But the critique of her actions as they impact her effectiveness is still true as far as it goes.

True enough. But where do we draw the line? There's a lot of subjective grey area there.

Take Al Gore for example. Guy has been raising awareness about global warming for decades. Earth in the Balance was published in 1992. He's probably more responsible for raising climate change awareness than anybody. And he was doing it before most others except some scientists and a handful of enviro activists. To do that, he flew around the world a lot. I'm sure he's taken a lot of unnecessary flights for leisure too. He's a rich guy.

Does that mean he's a hypocrite? I mean, I guess. But I would argue he's done more good than ill. And I think the argument to make on that point is fairly easy, given the available evidence.

Like I said, the heli to the wedding photos is low-hanging fruit. But overall, I dunno, no matter what people do short of killing themselves to offset their carbon footprint, somebody is still going to criticize them for hypocrisy.

[jono]

I guess my point is that I agree with Buster in that judging a person for hypocrisy seems hypocritical, but it doesn't stop me from seeing the pragmatic effect it has on their message. Same goes for CG, JJ, Gore...

As a member of the peanut gallery, more discussion of people who are trying to lead from the front seems helpful. Particularly those who are modeling and discovering better ways.

[LightRanger]

^^^ Yes. I agree with all of that for sure.

[3PinGrin]

Huh? Sounds like more thoughtless hypocrisy. An environmentalist who expects to have the right to speak up about carbon pollution should live on a path, not a street. If they live on a street they forfeit their right to speak out no?

That street to the probably fake pond took an enormous amount of CO2 to produce and destroyed plants and the soil beneath them that sequester carbon and the non porous surface results in runoff into the lake which results in methane production.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0326081426.htm

Purity is tough when we all live glass houses instead of mud huts.










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Many wetland systems are carbon sinks, and urban ponds can help with nutrient removal if properly designed which can limit things like nitrogen and phosphorous in larger water bodies and consequently reduce algal blooms. So your categorization of ponds is vague and off base IMO.

edit to add: If you are talking about large parking lots with a large pond lacking vegetation as a stormwater basin then yes, that can be a problem. Although phosphorous may bind to sediment and be retained limiting effluent concentrations. The bottom line is design is all site specific. That's why I don't agree with the sweeping categorizations of "urban ponds" being bad for the environment and contributing to "greening" as the article states.

[uglymoney]

Many wetland systems are carbon sinks, and urban ponds can help with nutrient removal if properly designed which can limit things like nitrogen and phosphorous in larger water bodies and consequently reduce algal blooms. So your categorization of ponds is vague and off base IMO.

edit to add: If you are talking about large parking lots with a large pond lacking vegetation as a stormwater basin then yes, that can be a problem. Although phosphorous may bind to sediment and be retained limiting effluent concentrations. The bottom line is design is all site specific. That's why I don't agree with the sweeping categorizations of "urban ponds" being bad for the environment and contributing to "greening" as the article states.

I appreciate the reply. My wife works for a city making sure we have detention basins for stormwater runoff. It is harder to develop porous concrete because it cracks to pieces with freeze thaw cycles. They tried a small test section a couple years ago and it failed.

My point was basically what lightranger said. Where do we draw the line? When people make an effort to do better ala JJ we still criticize him. For some people flying heli's is a job. Do they get to speak up? Do we refuse a heli evacuation if we get hurt in the backcountry?

I personally decided years ago heli skiing isn't something I am interested in for a variety of reasons - although jumping over to another ridge at Silverton for 50 bucks would be fun since it flies anyway. Easy for me as a working stiff that has to count beans and can't afford heli skiing anyway but not so easy for people who pay bills flying around providing services. Do they have to remain silent?

[AdironRider]

Getting an emergency heli evacuation is a completely different thing than using a helicopter to go skiing or take wedding photos. This is whataboutism at its worst.

[concretejungle]

Getting an emergency heli evacuation is a completely different thing than using a helicopter to go skiing or take wedding photos. This is whataboutism at its worst.

Thank you.

[uglymoney]

Okay. You guys are judge and jury for the purity department. Got it.

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[skifishbum]

whats goin on
ifin ya changed it from hate to cuck love
mosta yoused still be winning why all the way beats me
but whats evers
im gonna respond to the thread
by posting in it
poundkeyburninggreenerthanubros

[Timberridge]

You took a picture of the hand of a 95 year old Nepalese farmer holding a cigarette on your roof?

[vonzipper]

A friend of mine fly's Feinstein's husbands jet, G-550, He tells me they burn 50 gallons of fuel just taxiing for takeoff

That's one of how many private jets everyday? no shit we have a problem, what we have here is rich fuckers thinking their too important to use other modes of transport

[LightRanger]

To be fair, Feinstein doesn't really claim to give all that much of a shit. Just ask the Sunrise Movement kids.

[HellgateBasement]

Jeremy Jones and I dunno.

Dropping in to ID Mike Richter - ex-NY Rangers goalie. Maybe the warmingz making it hard to keep the ice fast Madison Sq. Garden?

Ok, carry on.

[Vt-Freeheel]

A friend of mine fly's Feinstein's husbands jet, G-550, He tells me they burn 50 gallons of fuel just taxiing for takeoff

That's one of how many private jets everyday? no shit we have a problem, what we have here is rich fuckers thinking their too important to use other modes of transport

You flown over the holidays or a 6-7 am flight lately?

[babybear]

That's one of how many private jets everyday? no shit we have a problem, what we have here is rich fuckers thinking their too important to use other modes of transport

I worked for a guy and would watch their dog frequently when they traveled
On multiple occasions I had to pick up the dog at the airport FBO where it was flown back home as the only passenger on their plane
I was glad to move on from that situation

[Timberridge]

Did the plane ever have teenage sex slaves on it?

[raisingarizona13]

I could get up on my high horse and talk about the simple life I've lived and my very small carbon footprint but.......

We are all guilty and we are all fucked. I'm pretty sure the ski industry wouldn't function without capitalism and peoples drive to obtain wealth, the core of why humans keep hitting the gas as hard as they can towards societal collapse. At this point I'm fairly convinced it's our purpose to push the earth into it's next cycle and besides, we don't deserve to be here any longer anyways.

And those climate "protests" are bullshit too. We had a pretty good turn out one day here in Flagstaff, my daughter went with her school even but afterwards you could watch the majority of protesters get into their expensive cars and drive off. I don't think anyone is ready to make the sacrifices it would take to make an actual difference.

In the end, climate change is probably the best thing for the planet because what the Earth really needs is a massive die off to help clear it of it's human infestation.

[The SnowShow]

Caroline just flew back from SLC to MN to follow her bike riding husband in a car for support. That’s a climate activist for you.

[telefreewasatch]

I could get up on my high horse and talk about the simple life I've lived and my very small carbon footprint but.......

We are all guilty and we are all fucked. I'm pretty sure the ski industry wouldn't function without capitalism and peoples drive to obtain wealth, the core of why humans keep hitting the gas as hard as they can towards societal collapse. At this point I'm fairly convinced it's our purpose to push the earth into it's next cycle and besides, we don't deserve to be here any longer anyways.

And those climate "protests" are bullshit too. We had a pretty good turn out one day here in Flagstaff, my daughter went with her school even but afterwards you could watch the majority of protesters get into their expensive cars and drive off. I don't think anyone is ready to make the sacrifices it would take to make an actual difference.

In the end, climate change is probably the best thing for the planet because what the Earth really needs is a massive die off to help clear it of it's human infestation.

Agree with most of this.
Problem is how many other species we are taking down with us...