ON3P SKIS Discussion

[terpskier]

The woodsman isn’t out for the public yet. Where in Boston are you going to be?

It’s not 100% but it’s looking like I’ll be doing my PhD at Northeastern.

I probably won’t be skiing much, especially in my first year, so now I’m reconsidering and thinking a metal wren 96 may be the perfect one ski quiver for the conditions I’ll be facing in the northeast over the next few years.

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[2FUNKY]

Yeah, I have seen him detune a ski too. [sarcasm]He’s almost as aggressive a skier as he is with that whetstone I mean “gummi” he has. [/sarcasm] I think it’s safe to say he’s pretty sensitive to a sharp edge.

Fair enough. I swear I heard you mention some issues and some others, but anywhoo.
Like I stated, I wish I would have skied them for myself and laid judgement down there.
Y’all can put down the pitch forks.

[TahoeJ]

It’s all good... no pitchforks needed. I hated my Kartel 108’s and realized quickly it’s because I’m such a forward pressing tip driver. Which is why I like the Wrens - they’re perfect for me. Doesn’t mean the K108’s are bad, just not my cup of tea. It would be boring if we all liked the same shit.

[terpskier]

Looks like ON3P will be holding back from telling us tons of info on how a metal wren skis till April or whenever they drop next years stuff.

Can anyone give any good detail/speculation on how adding metal, assuming it’s done correctly, will affect a Wren? I know edge grip should/will be improved, but how does it effect ON3Ps dampness/playfulness combo, or other things like pow performance and how it skis in moguls? I’ve always wondered about that, especially since Iggy said it’ll be about the same stiffness lengthwise (but obviously stiffer torsionally).

[SkiLyft]

CMA — Thanks for bringing the demos out at BBI I’ve been dying to A/B/C the K108 - 186 and 191 with the W108 184. The bonus was skiing the woodsman 116 (187?!). Lastly you worked your ass off adjusting binders throughout the day making sure we all had a good experience!!

Anyways for reference I’m 205 and 6ft. I have been daily driving the current billygoat 189 this season and have 30+ days on it in every condition/type of terrain.

ON3P demos came out on day 2 after a full day of Alpy beat down so I’ll admit maybe my legs were not as fresh as the would be on a different day.

Skied the Woodsman first, however having never skied a Kartel or wren prior I did not have a reference point to compare while skiing. After 1 run of skiing heavy deep PNW pow I got pretty worked. They did not float like my goats and did not ski as loose as the goats however looking at the tail that makes sense; but frankly not sure the goat is a good comparison as these were built as a easier to ski wren yeah?!? They did feel a touch more locked in on hardpack and seemed to reward cuff pressure but the 116 width was weird to me — why that wide? Doesn’t the BG fit that niche? And if your are stopping the Wren 114 due to not selling enough will you sell more woodsmen? Idk. I really wanted to ski the woodsman 108 but it was not available/there. That ski makes more sense to me as the 116 on hardpack felt a little“planky” at times. But once again only skied for 1 run — so please don’t tar and feather me.

Needless to say after skiing them I wanted back on my goats and proceeded to ski the goats till about 1pm and loved every minute of it - conditions on Friday were the best of the weekend!

At 1pm I switched to the 186 K108 - not surprising, but super easy to ski. Not demanding but a lot of fun. Found their speed limit quickly. Moved the binders back 2cm and took a couple more runs. Once back 2cm they felt more comfortable at speed but at 205lbs I wanted more stiffness in the tips.

Next was the 191 K108. This ski gave me more tip to drive (skiing centered of course). But I noticed the tails would get hung up when in bumps - something about being more center mounted. Just not my jam eh?!?

Anyways by 3pm I finally got around to skiing the W108. My legs were pretty beat after 2 solid Alpy beat downs. Anyways skied with JackAttack who was on the W114. We went out the cascade traverse for two runs. The upper part was chopped up snow and I could not get the tails to release. They locked in and would not Slarve like the BG or Kartel. When in bumps and transferring from edge to edge if I did not mind my p’s and q’s they wanted to just continue pulling me across the fall line (the tails did not want to release). I put even more effort into staying forward on the ski (with good cuff pressure) and once again it continue to kick my ass in variable terrain - I can remember one turn in particular where I came off a 5-10 ft air landed then arced Across the fall line; I tried to roll my edges but those fuckers continue to pull my across the fall line. Notably groomers were fun, they railed once on edge.


Several things I wish I would have done.
- ski the woodsman more than 1 run. At 1 run I just don’t think I have enough data points to comment on so please take my review with a grain of salt!!
- ski the 108 woodsman. This ski makes more sense to me.
- ski the wren early in the morning on fresh legs.
- ski the 98 wren to see what my thoughts were.

Things I will continue doing. Skiing my 189BG. God damn I LOVE THEM. They are detuned properly and flat MOB! Can put them on edge and just stand on them and they arc GS turns. Stupid fun in trees, 3D snow. Tails break loose when I need them to.

Edit**
After reading my review it seems I have a more playful skiing style. I like to mob down then throw the skis sideways and scrub speed. I like to ski a couple moguls then jump the last few and continue on my way. Maybe my skiing style doesn’t agree with a wren which is fine and I will gladly continue to ski my goats until the day I die. But I just find it interesting that LVS and I had similar feels after skiing the Wren.

Interdasting... very interdasting.


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[Cdubmpdx]

CMA — Thanks for bringing the demos out at BBI I’ve been dying to A/B/C the K108 - 186 and 191 with the W108 184. The bonus was skiing the woodsman 116 (187?!). Lastly you worked your ass off adjusting binders throughout the day making sure we all had a good experience!!

Anyways for reference I’m 205 and 6ft. I have been daily driving the current billygoat 189 this season and have 30+ days on it in every condition/type of terrain.

ON3P demos came out on day 2 after a full day of Alpy beat down so I’ll admit maybe my legs were not as fresh as the would be on a different day.

Skied the Woodsman first, however having never skied a Kartel or wren prior I did not have a reference point to compare while skiing. After 1 run of skiing heavy deep PNW pow I got pretty worked. They did not float like my goats and did not ski as loose as the goats however looking at the tail that makes sense; but frankly not sure the goat is a good comparison as these were built as a easier to ski wren yeah?!? They did feel a touch more locked in on hardpack and seemed to reward cuff pressure but the 116 width was weird to me — why that wide? Doesn’t the BG fit that niche? And if your are stopping the Wren 114 due to not selling enough will you sell more woodsmen? Idk. I really wanted to ski the woodsman 108 but it was not available/there. That ski makes more sense to me as the 116 on hardpack felt a little“planky” at times. But once again only skied for 1 run — so please don’t tar and feather me.

Needless to say after skiing them I wanted back on my goats and proceeded to ski the goats till about 1pm and loved every minute of it - conditions on Friday were the best of the weekend!

At 1pm I switched to the 186 K108 - not surprising, but super easy to ski. Not demanding but a lot of fun. Found their speed limit quickly. Moved the binders back 2cm and took a couple more runs. Once back 2cm they felt more comfortable at speed but at 205lbs I wanted more stiffness in the tips.

Next was the 191 K108. This ski gave me more tip to drive (skiing centered of course). But I noticed the tails would get hung up when in bumps - something about being more center mounted. Just not my jam eh?!?

Anyways by 3pm I finally got around to skiing the W108. My legs were pretty beat after 2 solid Alpy beat downs. Anyways skied with JackAttack who was on the W114. We went out the cascade traverse for two runs. The upper part was chopped up snow and I could not get the tails to release. They locked in and would not Slarve like the BG or Kartel. When in bumps and transferring from edge to edge if I did not mind my p’s and q’s they wanted to just continue pulling me across the fall line (the tails did not want to release). I put even more effort into staying forward on the ski (with good cuff pressure) and once again it continue to kick my ass in variable terrain - I can remember one turn in particular where I came off a 5-10 ft air landed then arced Across the fall line; I tried to roll my edges but those fuckers continue to pull my across the fall line. Notably groomers were fun, they railed once on edge.


Several things I wish I would have done.
- ski the woodsman more than 1 run. At 1 run I just don’t think I have enough data points to comment on so please take my review with a grain of salt!!
- ski the 108 woodsman. This ski makes more sense to me.
- ski the wren early in the morning on fresh legs.
- ski the 98 wren to see what my thoughts were.

Things I will continue doing. Skiing my 189BG. God damn I LOVE THEM. They are detuned properly and flat MOB! Can put them on edge and just stand on them and they arc GS turns. Stupid fun in trees, 3D snow. Tails break loose when I need them to.

Edit**
After reading my review it seems I have a more playful skiing style. I like to mob down then throw the skis sideways and scrub speed. I like to ski a couple moguls then jump the last few and continue on my way. Maybe my skiing style doesn’t agree with a wren which is fine and I will gladly continue to ski my goats until the day I die. But I just find it interesting that LVS and I had similar feels after skiing the Wren.

Interdasting... very interdasting.


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That's a pretty nice snapshot of a lot of different skis. I think one thing to note is that, for me at least, it can be hard to switch between so many skis so quickly. They all have very different styles and feels (can't speak for the Woodsman). Obviously that's all you could do in this case. But I think to really feel a ski out you need to give it some adjustment time. I had similar problems my first day on the Wren, though not as severe, day two and after talking to Scott I had them figured out pretty quickly.

Also, it's funny you mentioned the tails on the center mount. I skied a center mounted ski 10 plus years ago with no problem, but I found myself catching the tails on each other with the K108 on the one day I took them out. Again, I probably would adjust after another day or two.

Anyway, nice write up, thanks for taking the time.

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[Gnar_Shralp406]

Yeah, I have seen him detune a ski too. [sarcasm]He’s almost as aggressive a skier as he is with that whetstone I mean “gummi” he has. [/sarcasm] I think it’s safe to say he’s pretty sensitive to a sharp edge.

Also, the wrens he skied were not in the demo fleet. From what I recall he skied them on Saturday after Al left.

Obviously, I’m biased on the Wren 108 conversation because I ski the 189 as a DD. My pair is extremely predictable, will run completely flat without wandering, but they are big skis and can be a handful in bumps... which is pretty much all that was left on Saturday at Alpy. When I got them from Aever they were sharp AF. But even in that state I didn’t think they were unpredictable, but the tails did have a tendency to hang up occasionally when finishing a turn. I detuned the tails to the contact point but other than that, nothing. Tails release fine now and they skis hold an edge on reasonable hard pack.

I skied many of the fleet skis both on Tuesday at WWSRA and Friday at Alpy. I experienced no “tune” issues, but there were some quirks with the PROTOTYPE models (metal wrens in particular) that Al acknowledged because they’re PROTOTYPES.

More deets on the metal wren. Added dampening and crud busting ability? I'm looking for a potential successor to my 192 Supernatural 115 and think the metal wren 108 or 114 could be it.

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[uglymoney]

Billy goats are awesome. Best wide ski I've ever used in tight trees and day after soft bumps/chop.



Those complaining about hard snow performance - what's the issue? Based on advice in this thread I thought centered thoughts and they never felt too weird to me in the occasional scraped off section. I would not be surprised if Wildcats are better at hard snow based on how the 108 tours work, but honestly not sure I need that level of hard snow performance in a 116 ski given how many skis I own. I could imagine a really scraped off steep chute entrance being sketchy but (at least this year's model) is far from terrible back to the lift.

Ha! Yep. I completely agree. My daily driver is a Brahma 88. Transitioning to the BG is nothing and it does fine. After a long day slaying powder it works you a little bit heading back to the bottom but fuck it. Totally worth it and if you still have the legs to drive them they will slay.

Last Thursday with the BG's on under reported fresh Highlands Bowl and Temerity lift bell to 230 or so when my legs gave out.

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[DumbIdeasOnly]

Last Thursday with the BG's on under reported fresh Highlands Bowl and Temerity lift bell to 230 or so when my legs gave out.

Maybe there is some value to the diet goat build then - I'm pretty sure I'm in shitty shape (I would lose an arm wrestling contest to a strong toddler with my recovering arm and got fat again) but I was super happy for 2 full days. Didn't find them work at all.

one other thing on the hard snow performance - while I think it was honestly pretty good given the ski's performance envelope elsewhere, I would agree they require a consciously different style on hard and soft snow. Soft you can absolutely drive them and they respond well. Hard I did have to remember to ski more centered. It is a bit of an adjustment but I think with experience it will become natural.

[steveski]

I skied a few laps on the 184 metal w108. To me they felt damp and powerful. Definitely less energy transferred back out of the ski than standard layup. That was a good thing for bump smashing and heavy, chopped snow.

If you like metal in skis, and don't rely on the smooth energy that bamboo produces the metal layup only enhances the wren.

[uglymoney]

Maybe there is some value to the diet goat build then - I'm pretty sure I'm in shitty shape (I would lose an arm wrestling contest to a strong toddler with my recovering arm and got fat again) but I was super happy for 2 full days. Didn't find them work at all.

one other thing on the hard snow performance - while I think it was honestly pretty good given the ski's performance envelope elsewhere, I would agree they require a consciously different style on hard and soft snow. Soft you can absolutely drive them and they respond well. Hard I did have to remember to ski more centered. It is a bit of an adjustment but I think with experience it will become natural.

All I know is when a 210 lb fat ass from Iowa who should be 190ish can be the slowest person on the bootpack (Euro slow I called myself since only a couple Euros were slower) up Highlands bowl sucking winds (not proud and eating salad only from here out) and one of the faster people crushing the bowl on the downhill it is the skis. Period.

[jackattack]

More deets on the metal wren. Added dampening and crud busting ability? I'm looking for a potential successor to my 192 Supernatural 115 and think the metal wren 108 or 114 could be it.

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Disclaimer: I am 189 sized and demoed a 184 metal wren (only one available)

Added dampness? Yes at the expense of the pop that I generally love from the ON3P build.

Added crud busting ability? No, I thought it flexed softer than the standard layup wrens.

I did think the flex was round yet supportive and I felt some added torsional stiffness from the metal. These differences were minute and hard to quantify in pow on soft groom. In general I thought it behaved very similar to my 189 W108. It had a tendency to tip dive a bit more, probably because it was under sized for me. On piste it was great. I think the metal will be worthwhile if most of your skiing is on firm variable and you want to reduce chatter while maintaining good edge contact. Or generally want less tactile feedback from the ski.

It’s a cool layup because they mill out the core for the metal inert instead of just adding a wall to wall sheet of TI or laminating it on top like the Blizzard Rustler or a lot of the K2 skis I’ve been seeing.

Personally, I would want a 187 Metal Woodsman 96 or 108 for low tide playful skiing, or the days I teach a lesson or skiing with family. The shorter sidecut/tail shape did not do it for me in pow like the RES skis or straighter Wrens.

[DumbIdeasOnly]

On piste it was great. I think the metal will be worthwhile if most of your skiing is on firm variable and you want to reduce chatter while maintaining good edge contact. Or generally want less tactile feedback from the ski.

It’s a cool layup because they mill out the core for the metal inert instead of just adding a wall to wall sheet of TI or laminating it on top like the Blizzard Rustler or a lot of the K2 skis I’ve been seeing.

Personally, I would want a 187 Woodsman 96 or 108 for low tide playful skiing

Anyone know if we can get the titanal core in a Woodsman shape? Super tempted for the application above.

[jackattack]

Anyone know if we can get the titanal core in a Woodsman shape? Super tempted for the application above.

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Metal Woodsman would be sweet.

[TahoeJ]

Pretty sure Scott just yelled at his computer screen... lol...

[DumbIdeasOnly]

How many emails went out?

I was one.

[DerekPersson]

fuck dude you can ski

Cheers dude! The SG's quickly became my favorite mostly-soft-condition boards that day! My current quiver consists of the OG 09-10 Wren 191's, 13-14 Wren 191's and these here SG 193's. Amongst most others in this post, I too am very stoked about a Woodsman 192 and Metal Wren.

Scott and crew kill it over there in Portland. Been a fan since the beginning.

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[kid-kapow]

All time shitty conditions for being February when I finally get to ski - meaning above freezing temps, rain/sleet and pure shait. Oh well, at least I finally can prioritize some much needed tasks to prepare for when conditions improve

Such as mounting these pairs. Can't wait to get on them!


I've mentioned these way too often already, but these are one ski shy (last pair being inbound) of being my snow rich locale quiver - stock w108 for charging and custom stiffer k116s for daily drivers. Very, very happy how these turned out.

And yes, Shifts are chosen due to FOMO and rather small local resorts that both have tons and tons of easily accesible killer terrain within very short touring distance - not for full on dentristy mode.

Obviously I love w108s with these being my third pair in two years. I only replaced last years 179s to go custom on the top sheet because why not

[jackattack]

Pretty sure Scott just yelled at his computer screen... lol...

Haha, yeah no doubt!

It’s a great shape for low tide conditions and that’s where metal skis shine for the 99.9% that aren’t skiing comps.

[mr_pretzel]

Fuck yeah Derek those murdered out SG’s are so sick!!

Thanks to jackattack, Skilyft and steveski for the reviews. Excited to ski the new sticks!

[iggyskier]

Not TGR's style but....Vote Jake Mageau 2020.
http://www.xgames.com/xgames/real/26.../real-ski-2019

A lot to unpack over the past couple days. Need more whiskey first.

In the meantime, yes, there will eventually be some sort of metal option outside the Wrens. For sure on custom, outside of that I don't yet know. No timeline though, we haven't started testing yet, so it will be awhile (mid-winter 2020 would be the soonest).

[jorion]

I wonder if Scott talks to his therapist about TGR.

[iggyskier]

I wonder if Scott talks to his therapist about TGR.

Oh...you can stop wondering.

[Gnar_Shralp406]

Disclaimer: I am 189 sized and demoed a 184 metal wren (only one available)

Added dampness? Yes at the expense of the pop that I generally love from the ON3P build.

Added crud busting ability? No, I thought it flexed softer than the standard layup wrens.

I did think the flex was round yet supportive and I felt some added torsional stiffness from the metal. These differences were minute and hard to quantify in pow on soft groom. In general I thought it behaved very similar to my 189 W108. It had a tendency to tip dive a bit more, probably because it was under sized for me. On piste it was great. I think the metal will be worthwhile if most of your skiing is on firm variable and you want to reduce chatter while maintaining good edge contact. Or generally want less tactile feedback from the ski.

It’s a cool layup because they mill out the core for the metal inert instead of just adding a wall to wall sheet of TI or laminating it on top like the Blizzard Rustler or a lot of the K2 skis I’ve been seeing.

Personally, I would want a 187 Metal Woodsman 96 or 108 for low tide playful skiing, or the days I teach a lesson or skiing with family. The shorter sidecut/tail shape did not do it for me in pow like the RES skis or straighter Wrens.

Thanks for the response. A 189 metal Wren sounds like a dream ski to me. Gonna have to pinch my pennies/sell a kidney.

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[Westcoaster]

Sorta random, but picked up some barely used 189 wren 98s and was curious on weight - one is 2135g, another 2047g. Most my of my skis have been within ~30g of each other and the delta here is surprisingly wide...

Thoughts?