Praxis Protest..just how cool is it?

[Reformed]

Bump for JONGin' the shit out of PM communication with Muggy. Sorry for the spam and glad that something finally got through.
I'm currently at -2 on the play. Benched until I contribute stoke or something useful...

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Anyone have a suggestion for skins???

[grinch]

Soo nice!!
Skins I’ll only buy bd

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Soo nice!!
Skins I’ll only buy bd

Cool. Right on. May just get the BD STS at 125mm. Looks like I won't need to trim for the 128mm ski. From what I've read, trimming is a pain with the BD's.

I have some G3 Alpinist skins for some G3 Findr 102's, and although I haven't personally had issues, seems some people are having issues (inconsistent manufacturing?).

[Reformed]

Cool. Right on. May just get the BD STS at 125mm. Looks like I won't need to trim for the 128mm ski. .

Bang on! I ran the Mohair Mix STS 125s on some borrowed 187s last year and didn't have to trim, had zero issues with slipping or glue and appreciated the reduced weight/drag/packed volume over my narrower BD Ascensions. It's almost like BD custom made these skins for the Protest.

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Bang on! I ran the Mohair Mix STS 125s on some borrowed 187s last year and didn't have to trim, had zero issues with slipping or glue and appreciated the reduced weight/drag/packed volume over my narrower BD Ascensions. It's almost like BD custom made these skins for the Protest.

"Party Time! Excellent!"

Thanks for confirming my plan, Reformed.

[Reformed]

"Party Time! Excellent!"

Schwing!!!

[popcorn]

Cool. Right on. May just get the BD STS at 125mm. Looks like I won't need to trim for the 128mm ski. From what I've read, trimming is a pain with the BD's.

I have some G3 Alpinist skins for some G3 Findr 102's, and although I haven't personally had issues, seems some people are having issues (inconsistent manufacturing?).

I've had issues with the glue on my Alpinists getting ridiculously tacky after a season, even after storing them in a stable temperature during the off season, and I've encountered others with the same problem. Probably going to pick up a set of Ascensions after the end of this season.

[2wheeler]

Anyone have a suggestion for skins???

Personally I find that with a ski that wide a full mohair skin is much more efficient. A couple of years ago I put the a set of Colltex on my protests (all rounder). Much better glide and plenty of grip for the up track. I've also used other brands like pomoca and they are very nice and fast too. My hip flexors are much happier at the end of a long day.

I used G3s for many years on my old protests. They had loads of traction and the best tip and tail attachments, but the glide was pretty terrible. (FYI I did end up modifying my Colltex tail attachments to the 2 clip G3 style that works best with a rounded ski tail.)

If you're one of those skiers that wants to go straight up the mountain then the BD or G3 are a great choice. If you're a little more subtle with your up track mohair can't be beat.

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Personally I find that with a ski that wide a full mohair skin is much more efficient. A couple of years ago I put the a set of Colltex on my protests (all rounder). Much better glide and plenty of grip for the up track. I've also used other brands like pomoca and they are very nice and fast too. My hip flexors are much happier at the end of a long day.

I used G3s for many years on my old protests. They had loads of traction and the best tip and tail attachments, but the glide was pretty terrible. (FYI I did end up modifying my Colltex tail attachments to the 2 clip G3 style that works best with a rounded ski tail.)

If you're one of those skiers that wants to go straight up the mountain then the BD or G3 are a great choice. If you're a little more subtle with your up track mohair can't be beat.

Thanks a bunch for the advice! You bring up very good points (especially the increased surface area negates aggressive skin traction need)

[skibrd]

I’ve been skinning on my Protests with the glide G3 Backcountry skins and even with the width the grip is crap. I’m also not the greatest at skinning, but I do wish I had the more grip skins over the glide skins.


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[nickel]

that sounds like you need more practice over more grip. no offense intended.

[SupreChicken]

that sounds like you need more practice over more grip. no offense intended.

While that may be the case, slipping on the skin track sucks. Sucks way more than gliding efficiently doesn’t suck.

I’d actually go sts 140 and trim them so you have edge to edge coverage. I made that change this year and now, if the track gets icy on a brutal switchback, or if I end up going a little steeper than I intended, I don’t slip, even with my mediocre technique.

IMO, edge to edge coverage is well worth it.

[nickel]

edge to edge is absolutely worth it. from there the trade off of nylon grip vs mohair glide largely depends on your usage. if only steep skintracks or slack country then by all means go for grip but if, like me, you sometimes do big approaches on your pow sticks then glide is super important and can be easily offset with technique and a nice skin track set.

[meter-man]

edge to edge is absolutely worth it. from there the trade off of nylon grip vs mohair glide largely depends on your usage. if only steep skintracks or slack country then by all means go for grip but if, like me, you sometimes do big approaches on your pow sticks then glide is super important and can be easily offset with technique and a nice skin track set.

Agree with supreC and nickel. I use Mo-Mix, wall-to-wall, on my Protests. Glide makes a huge difference in energy used, particularly with big boards. If you're slipping, suggest trying a new technique, setting a new skin track, or putting on ski crampons. But nothing can mimic the free energy a good gliding skin can provide.

I don't think the increased glide in a narrower skin is worth the trade-off in reduced grip - that screws you when sidehilling (where wall-to-wall makes a huge diff). And those are always the sketchiest situations and occur frequently enough I don't want to put on ski crampons every time I'm sidehilling.

Anyway, Protests are the shit! I continue to believe I will never not have a Protest for pow touring. I'm thinking now about trying a 187 UL with carbon and veneer with an ultra-light binding for the next iteration...someday, ten years in the future, when this current setup dies.... or perhaps a 192 with a Shift for the heli-trip I will never actually take...aint dreams great!?

[hoarhey]

I have a pair of 177 carbons from years back (6 years or so, now) mounted with dynafits vertical ft12''s.
I cut down 140 mm mohair/nylon mix glidelites for the wall to wall, and they are pretty amazing .
Haven't used them in a while (I'm back in the midwest), but will always keep them!!!

They are fantastic for pow touring and teton pass glory booter, and they really make low angle pow skiing fast and fun, less bogging down!

This was from a fun teton pass tour with Horizon and Irbis (romanians) after a straightline camp 5 years ago (sweet blog bro)

I have them mounted -1 cm and am thinking about putting a B&D shim under the toe, because the ski is super reactive, and would be better in my mind a hair less so.

I had great success with putting a toe shim on my 175 UL GPO's (111 mm underfoot) which at -1 cm and dynafit verticals exhibited tip dive.

But after putting in the toe shim, the GPO's ski "just right."

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

The guys at Mammoth mountaineering confirm the Mohair/Mohair mix over BD All Nylon. Interesting. May go Pomoca Mohair.

[skibrd]

Yeah, technique is something I definitely need to work on.

The skins are also cut for 193 Shiros, so 8 or 10mm narrower then the Protest so I don’t have edge to edge coverage. If I keep the shifts on the Protests after Japan I’ll probably get a new pair of the gripier skins and have them go wall to wall.


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[TAFKALVS]

Will I like Protest? I am looking at getting 192 flex 4 enduro core protest to round out the quiver with a fat pow stick.

Is tip dive an issue on this ski?


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[auvgeek]

Tip dive is an issue with any R/R ski, of which the Protest is a variant. As I’m sure you know for any R/R ski, the majority of the float is underfoot — which is an awesome and super unique feeling of slashing your turns. Frankly, it makes straightlining pow just stupid fun, no other feeling like it ... but comes at the downside of needing a pretty neutral stance and being okay with the tips submarining.

For those reasons, I’m not sure you’d love the Protest. It seems like your unicorn ski might be an older C&D cuz that tip ain’t going under. Or maybe the Praxis BPS, which has a giant tip.

[TAFKALVS]

Hmm, my feet are starting to get cold. Can you pop over to the on3p thread and let me know your thoughts on the mega rocker c&d if you’ve skied it in pow?


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[auvgeek]

Hmm, my feet are starting to get cold. Can you pop over to the on3p thread and let me know your thoughts on the mega rocker c&d if you’ve skied it in pow?

Havent skied it. XavierD might be able to help you. He lent me his pair for several weeks when I lived in Seattle but a combination of boot/bsl, snow/work/scheduling issues meant I sadly never skied them. Current C&D might be up your alley, too, I just think I would want mega rocker for my biggest ski if I was your size/strength. I mainly recommended based on long radius, RES, and unsinkable tips.

[2FUNKY]

Hmm, my feet are starting to get cold. Can you pop over to the on3p thread and let me know your thoughts on the mega rocker c&d if you’ve skied it in pow?


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I think you need to ski the 192 4 flex before making a decision. The only time I’ve ever had a feeling that the tips felt like they were sinking is on a flat headed out of a run, like so flat you can’t turn. In that case you need to stay very neutral. Other than that I’ve never had the tips sink or even think of sinking. Just pure surf city.
That said, the C&D may still be more your jam. Personally I would get on both and decide from there.

[SupreChicken]

I think you need to ski the 192 4 flex before making a decision. The only time I’ve ever had a feeling that the tips felt like they were sinking is on a flat headed out of a run, like so flat you can’t turn. In that case you need to stay very neutral. Other than that I’ve never had the tips sink or even think of sinking. Just pure surf city.
That said, the C&D may still be more your jam. Personally I would get on both and decide from there.

You’ve seen me ski. Newest CD is way more my jam than the protest.

That said, on my protest, the tips stopped diving at -1.

Muggy? What’s the ideal mount point on the 192 to avoid tip dive for a bigger dude?

[galibier_numero_un]

Tip dive is an issue with any R/R ski, of which the Protest is a variant. As I’m sure you know for any R/R ski, the majority of the float is underfoot — which is an awesome and super unique feeling of slashing your turns. Frankly, it makes straightlining pow just stupid fun, no other feeling like it ... but comes at the downside of needing a pretty neutral stance and being okay with the tips submarining.

For those reasons, I’m not sure you’d love the Protest. It seems like your unicorn ski might be an older C&D cuz that tip ain’t going under. Or maybe the Praxis BPS, which has a giant tip.

I think I just blew a fuse in my neural circuits (I should megadose some B-vitamins), but this may explain why I didn't connect with my -1 mounted 187s.

Intuitively, it made no sense that the tips wouldn't come up the way they did with my Qs and BGs. I gave no thought to the fat middle, thinking that the fatter the ski, the less sink of any kind.

I spent my time tail-gunning (way back of neutral) for the first time in what seems like a lifetime - trying to get the tips to come up. This was not a recipe for happiness.

Now I know ;-)

... Thom