ON3P SKIS Discussion

[iggyskier]

“Any improvements on this?”

She hasn’t been out on them again as conditions and timing of her days off have yet to correlate. I took a quick lap on them the other day and they felt just like my 184’s, only with that same round flex as my C&D’s due to the tour layup. She’s coming up to Whistler with me at the end of the month, so hopefully she’ll get to give ‘em another go.

Her complaint was was that they felt “too locked” into a line and she was having trouble breaking them off that line to turn, which was why I thought to de-tune them further. Will definitely post her thoughts once she’s given them another chance.

Sounds good. Keep us in the loop.

Is there still something coming that will make all the wren kartel tweeners happy or do I just forget about that and continue bathing in the glory my wren 108s.

Both?

I notice that the reply wrt to brand management, customer perception vs projected brand image in a world of increased tribalism due to social media / reward pathway induced behavior is just going to be too long and probably not add anything that you or anybody else already aren't aware of, so I will not bore you with it I find the topic to be very interesting though - psychology meets marketing meets social dynamics. In a world of (widely differing) social norms and group & indidivudal identities, the us vs them effect is kinda inevitable though.

Oh well eh - one cannot be all things to everybody, or please everybody all the time. The risk of alienating some while catering to others is kinda par for the course. Reaction means engagement which means interest - so if nothing else, feedback of any sort is mostly a positive. The alternative is disengagement - aka stop supporting a brand. Yay marketing and branding creating new issues while fixing others



I have been really curious how w114 were selling. I guess this partially answers that question. Still, I am beyond excited that you offered em this year - cannot wait to try them!

Re: Tribalism. The comments on this post from yesterday were interesting.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs62ecdhjy0/

Its a bunch of park kids ragging on the guy because his skis "aren't centered mounted" and....

1) Who gives a shit?
2) At least as it relates to the park skis (Filthy Rich), those are centered mounted. It's just the angle of the photo.
3) The other skis aren't designed to be centered mounted.
4) Who gives a shit?

I know the internet is the internet and the bar is incredibly low for people to go out of their way to be nasty - this above interaction is just a microcosm of our culture. Just seems it isn't that hard to wake up every day and not be a dick (or....maybe not?).

As it relates to branding - that is a longer discussion. There was an interesting post awhile back about how our Instagram is off putting because it was all park stuff, but that just isn't true. Most of the year (basically outside of promos), we run a revolving pattern.

Typically:
One Park
One Pow
One Factory
One Park
One Pow
One Skis

and repeat that over and over. It builds consistency in the feed and is a nice touch when viewing on an expanded 3 wide basis. Some people were only noticing the park stuff, though - the stuff they didn't like. It is fascinating to see how perception shapes branding, even if the marketing doesn't match that perception.

This is also very true:
"one cannot be all things to everybody, or please everybody all the time."

One of the nice things for us is that we can stay really small. Makes doing your own thing easier.

Re: Wren 114. No surprise there, to be honest. I knew better.

[kid-kapow]

yeah, the availibility heuristic in a nutshell re noticing what you want to notice wrt to Insta/whatever. The same heuristic is a main driver for changing opinions to your opinion by repeating stuff that you know is not true, since remembering "not" is not possible - so things "become" true by repetition. Or indoctrination - however you want to split the terminology.

I am also not a fan of people voicing not liking something being labeled as hate etc. As long as critique is done in a balanced and nuanced way, saying "that is not my cup of tea" is fine imo and par for the course. I think the overly perfect representation of peoples lives in social media joint with people getting tired of it, together with zero to none negative consequences for uncivil behavior just lowers the bar for being a dick too low. But, that is not to say that replies online must / can only be positive. If you want to post something online, be prepared for both the positive and the negative and do not get to caught up in the feedback - aka do not externalize the regulation of either your self worth or well being, because that is not going to go well.

Similarly, not everybody is that articulate nor willing to put an hour into writing a post/feedback - so some generosity is in order when reading what other people write - in what might be there second or third language, across a different culture and so on. Misunderstanding statements or deducing ulterior intentions / motives where there is non is also par for the course - sadly. Communication is difficult.

The center mount debate on Insta is a perfect example of a non-nuanced approach - though it is pretty obvious the guy knows next to nothing about skis and needs to reevaluate some core attitudes toward other people. All opinions are not equal. Skiing is for everybody, and luckily people like different stuff.

Wrt W114 - well, I am super glad you went against your better judgement! Are we speaking SG numbers or even lower? I am just curious, so no specifics required Sweet that it will stay on as a champagne room offering together with the SG. That is one helluva one two punch imo

[Cdubmpdx]

Some people were only noticing the park stuff, though - the stuff they didn't like. It is fascinating to see how perception shapes branding, even if the marketing doesn't match that perception.

This is also very true:
"one cannot be all things to everybody, or please everybody all the time."

Speaking for myself, I did notice the other stuff and pow stoke. Before riding ON3P I just had a preconceived notion that park skis were noodles and companies that have a park focus primarily make noodles. There is no basis for for this, just how my perception was. Obviously not the case and now know better than making judgements. I have convinced at least a few friends to buy ON3P now and converted lifetime customers for you (please never stop making skis).

For the record I have no discontent toward park skiers. I think everyone should do what they are interested in and as you said previously, whatever gets people stoked to ski and get out there with friends and have fun on snow. Just not my thing. I have a 9 month old son and I have a feeling he will get interested in park skiing if he decides he loves skiing like his parents. And I will be more than happy. Even if rides a snowboard. I don't get the us versus them mentality at all, because, who gives a shit, do what you are interested in, just be happy other people are having a good time, and mind your own business.

Sad news on the Wren 114, do you guys haul these in the demo fleet?

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[kid-kapow]

Even if rides a snowboard.

lol.

And sorry for being somewhat longwinded and dragging the focus from the skis themselves. Being concise and to the point is not a strength of mine - sadly.

[iggyskier]

I am also not a fan of people voicing not liking something being labeled as hate etc. As long as critique is done in a balanced and nuanced way, saying "that is not my cup of tea" is fine imo and par for the course.

Communication is difficult.

The center mount debate on Insta is a perfect example of a non-nuanced approach - though it is pretty obvious the guy knows next to nothing about skis and needs to reevaluate some core attitudes toward other people. All opinions are not equal. Skiing is for everybody, and luckily people like different stuff.

Wrt W114 - well, I am super glad you went against your better judgement! Are we speaking SG numbers or even lower? I am just curious, so no specifics required Sweet that it will stay on as a champagne room offering together with the SG. That is one helluva one two punch imo

Agree on all those points. And I mean re: things like the "all you post is park" - that is feedback we listen to. I'm glad we get it, so it isn't bad - just interesting to see in action and the work through the ways to adjust for it.

Re IG - the kook is just a kook, so that isn't that abnormal. This was the post that really was interesting to me:
"Its shit like this that bugs me. 4 sets of skis and the guy can barely toss a 180 on a small jump. Now obviously the skis will SEEM durable. He cant even ride them hard enough to beat them and on top of that hes got 4 pairs swap around. Dont even get me started on the mounting position."

It's layered and hits on so many different topics. Maybe it is my production mind but when we do anything in here - we ask what is the value add? I know most people don't think like that, but I always find people's incentives to post things that like fascinating, as it hits on so many things that in real life have no affect on his well being, but are so personal to those he directed them too. Social is a trip.

RE: Wren 114. More than the SG but not enough to be a mainline ski - develop a graphic for, worry about marketing, etc. For what it is worth, we pretty well tapped the SG market too.

[kid-kapow]

agreed - that is a very unnecessary and negative post.

I do not get people that claim that their experience of something is the only true way of experiencing something. For instance - I take a lot of pleasure in trying different skis, and historically, in understanding and building my dream mtb bikes. I need not ski like Markus Eder or ride like Aaron Gwin to enjoy top of the pop equipment - and for the most part, if it enhances peoples experiences and get them stoked to use said equipment then I am all for people getting stuff they want. I am also glad that people with knowledge can step up and say "it is your choice, but kid, that SG is probably not the right ski for you" ( ) - again, provided it is done to make sure the other person succeed and not to claim moral superiority or get a kick out being a dick. I do get that the flip side is that people get too stuck on gear over the experience, or feel a pressure for getting expensive equipment they perhaps cannot afford, but that is kinda hard to negate. Aspiring to be a better skier or better gear while learning to be happy with where you are and what you got is key. (man, I sound like a hippie/all zen...)

I am sure w114 will be a hit for years to come, even if it will never see k108 sales numbers. I am labeling it #instantclassic even before trying it. W108s are awesome, so how can w114 not be awesome too?

It would be very interesting to try w96s too. I am really curious how it will act in coastal pow. Too soft shovels is my #1 dislike with the various 100mm-esque skis I have tried, leading me to sell most of the ones I've owned. W88s did not have that short coming

[mtskibum16]

Another holy-shit-these-are-good-skis day on my Billy Goats last Friday. Around 4-6" new with deep stashes and all sorts of variability from run to run including wind pack and various levels of density. The BGs just cut through everything with ease, and I could barely notice how funky the snow was in places. Thinking there would be more hard pack skiing in the afternoon, I swapped out to my Q-Labs (still missing Wren/Kartel 108 in my lineup) at lunch. Well turns out we continued finding untracked in the trees and holy shit I felt like I forgot how to ski over lunch. I was blown away by how much I struggled to ski the same stuff I was enjoying all morning. Back to back of BGs and non-BGs in 3D variable crap really opened my mind to how amazing the BG is. Each day on them I feel like I tap in to their magic just a bit more. Favorite ski ever!

[sk8rat6587]

Finally got out on my K108. First few runs took a bit to get used to the mount point, but once I did and I trusted them.... Holy buckets of fun! These things are great.

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[PowTron]

I am here to say (and being confident I probably have more days on Wren 114 than anyone else to this point) that they are NOT hard to ski and are soooooo much more versatile than any previous wider Wren from the past.

While they can act as a gun to Scott’s point and you can stand on them and charge full bore, they also smear and pivot better than any other Wren ever made in softer snow, trees, and wind blown when you back off them.

The newer rocker profile (and especially taper) vs older wrens truly comes alive in the 114 width.

People need to just pony up and trust me on this. Skip the damn demo asks and just fucking buy them [emoji6]

If you like Wren 108 and ski between the Pacific Ocean and Colorado this one is as much of a slam dunk as possible...

/end coffee fueled pre-workout rant

[mr_pretzel]

1 pair of wren 114 189s left

[3PinGrin]

Not right now but I did find a new 184 Steeple 116 from last year in a rack recently.

Sent a pm on those, but realized most of my questions were answered earlier in this thread.

Margotron, you should buy these and tell me how you like them

[SupreChicken]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

[Bandit Man]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

I want to keep my ACL’s intact, so I am staying home. You’re young and adventurous so let us know how it turns out. [emoji6]


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[MHSP1497]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

Tough call... I might stay home in that event (the rain). Logic has it = BG’s. My experience on C&D’s in a 2-3” over icy crust was amazing tho, so i’m at a toss up.

[mr_pretzel]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

Bring both and let us know?

[2FUNKY]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

Protest would make that mess silly fun, skied a similar event over here last year on mine and it was awesome, most people went home or skied groomers. I keep hearing people say the C&D is on the same level so I would C&D that shit.

[phatty]

It’s gonna snow a stupid amount tonight and then rain for 2 hours (5-7am) then snow lightly thereafter at my local hill.

Cease and desist or Billy goat or stay home?

The stuff falling now is already heavy and getting heavier, at least at Alpy. Starting to get grabby, so make sure they are waxed up good.

[Reformed]

Bring both and let us know?

Yup. For science.

[galibier_numero_un]

Following on with the BG vs. C&D ...

I'm trying to fill in the fat side of the quiver after making one of my worst decisions ever last year - selling my 15/16 BGs to buy Protests.

I may be the only person on TGR who didn't bond with Protests.

I love my Down CD 114s which remind me of a demo of 15/16 Steeples.

Something is telling me that while I'll be slightly more in the snow with BGs than with C&Ds, that the BGs better suit my tip driving style. The tips will stay up.

Can you drive the C&D's tips the way you can the BG and still float the tips?

The gain in width in both the C&D and Protest is focussed at the waist and tail (relative to their big mountain siblings). The C&D seems closer in proportion to the BG, but it still gives me pause. In the Lhasa thread, splat noted that a 2mm width change at the tail transformed the ski.

Logic (having 114 wide skis) would say to go with C&Ds over BGs, but the tip dive I experienced with the Protests is making me gun shy. I think it's the Protest's close width between tip and tail, but I ain't no ski designer.

184 C&Ds: 146/124/132
187 Protests: 139/128/132

184 BGs: 142/116/126
182 GPOs: 140/116/128
182 Quixotes: 142/118/121

I haven't skied C&Ds, but of the other four, the only ski I couldn't flost the tip was the Protests (mounted at -1).

Neither the C&D nor BG is red, so I can't go by that ;-)

I need to get up to one of the demo days at Bridger and hope I can time a storm cycle. The asym. is a minor concern after my Quixote experience and I need to confirm I'm ok with that.

... Thom

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[terpskier]

Both?

Any more info on this ski that could be shared? This ski sounds so perfect, I will likely be selling some skis and picking these up next year if you guys release it (and maybe/probably some metal W96s if those become available).

[Tailwind]

I think he was saying just buy both skis...

A ski between the two would likely be good at nothing... and okay at everything.

Any more info on this ski that could be shared? This ski sounds so perfect, I will likely be selling some skis and picking these up next year if you guys release it (and maybe/probably some metal W96s if those become available).

[kid-kapow]

i think what Iggy meant is that there will be a new tweener model coming, but that that should not make anybody not revel in the joys of wren108s (or any other current/past design) - neither now nor in the future

in other words - things are looking really really good right about now, with both killer designs available as of now and new killer sticks on the way - with and without metal. It is def a good time to be a ON3P fanboii

[TahoeJ]

A ski between the two would likely be good at nothing... and okay at everything.

Disagree. Strongly.

[terpskier]

I think he was saying just buy both skis...

A ski between the two would likely be good at nothing... and okay at everything.

Yeah, he was saying there is a ski coming, and to enjoy the Wrens the guy currently has. And the ski in question, for me at least, would likely be good at everything except hard groomers, great at some if not many things, and fun all the time. But to each their own I guess...

[Tailwind]

Maybe I worded that to plainly... but the point being I have some 190cm Bibby’s this year as my daily drivers. They do a lot of things well but there are a lot of times when I wish they could charge a little harder. Other times I wish they were a little more playful. They almost never feel ‘perfect’ but always feel good. One of my other setups are some Pescado’s I take touring for tree days. If I hit the right snow... they feel perfect but there are other times they feel very out of their element.


My point being, skis always have compromise. Versatility often limits the ability to be exceptional at one thing. I’m planning on getting something along the lines of a Wren / Kartel combo to replace the Bibby’s. Or maybe I’ll just try to get better at skiing...

Disagree. Strongly.