ON3P SKIS Discussion

[robnow]

Actually, fuck it - I'll just get both this winter.

I don't know what Skier's has left but I think Fresh still has a couple BG's left...give them a shout.

I think the BG vs K116 decision is an easy one. Do you plan to jump and land switch in pow at all, go K116. If not which I assume is the case from your description, go BG, and keep those jibby K98s (which seems far more relevant for your area) for everyday.

[2FUNKY]

I'd still like to hear more C&D vs Protest discussion, as I have skied the Protest and can better apply my own experience to other people's findings.

Me as well. I have serious love for the ProTest and the C&D has always intrigued me, esp the new ones.

[Kopi_Red]

Iggy, when will the 211cm Billygoat become available for us TGR heavymen?

FIFY

Those having issues with the BG are either mismatched to the size, or not adapting technique. They are an odd shape but once they click, slay on.

I agree. Riding my Super Goats the last few days forced me to reacquaint myself with the 2 footed fairly centered stance they require. Once I had the appropriate technique the skis just hauled mail down the mountain. Good times.

[himavan]

Oh man. Lots to think about here. Ski decisions are just sooo important.
Maybe I'll change the plan, get some 184 BGS first. (maybe still ride the Deathwishes once in a while) And then see if there's a proper place for K108s later. Reading up on how well the BGS release their tails is exciting. And I've never ridden anything with that little camber. And i do enjoy driving a ski. I'm not worried about their hard snow performance as they would only see soft groomers at the most.
Does the BGs ability to pivot translate to handling bumps when they have to? Or cut up stuff at non-mach speeds? What about weird variable conditions/crust in comparison to K116s?
I'm getting the impression that they carve GS on firm (fine with me) but lend themselves to more turn shapes in soft snow? Is that correct?
Thanks for the help guys.

[S.B.]

I have somewhat limited experience on my 184 asym BGs compared to many around here, but they definitely held up for me in bumps. They're no mogul ski, but they can definitely slash quick enough to get down any runs I ski in VT. Cutting through chop was the attribute that impressed me most when I got out on them for the first time, that's why everyone is so in love with them.

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[Conundrum]

Buying skis shouldn't be this hard.

[jorion]

Everybody should own Billy Goats. Especially if you’re in the pacific time zone. My life is more complete because of Billy Goats.

On that note, how annoying do I have to be to get Iggy to build a 184 ski out of the Billy goat mould that weighs under 9 lbs? I know it’s anathema to on3p and it couldn’t really be accurately named a billy goat, but I would happily pay full price for that ski before anybody else skied it and told me if it was good or bad.

It’s not really my style to go full aever but I’d really love an RES touring ski that wasn’t stupid heavy. I guess there are no on3p skis that don’t have bamboo cores? The praxis enduro/veneer layup with RES would be super rad IMO.

The tour layup bg in 184 is still nearly 10 lbs.

[CascadeLuke]

Everybody should own Billy Goats. Especially if you’re in the pacific time zone. My life is more complete because of Billy Goats.

On that note, how annoying do I have to be to get Iggy to build a 184 ski out of the Billy goat mould that weighs under 9 lbs? I know it’s anathema to on3p and it couldn’t really be accurately named a billy goat, but I would happily pay full price for that ski before anybody else skied it and told me if it was good or bad.

It’s not really my style to go full aever but I’d really love an RES touring ski that wasn’t stupid heavy. I guess there are no on3p skis that don’t have bamboo cores? The praxis enduro/veneer layup with RES would be super rad IMO.

The tour layup bg in 184 is still nearly 10 lbs.

I saw a Steeple 116 with veneer come in just over 9. About 2100g per. Basically BGt w/ veneer and you’re there.

[Bobcat Sig]

I'm bored and well sauced on a dental flight back home. Hold on to you junk...

RES was introduced in 11/12 and refined in 12/13.

Asym was like 16/17?

Re. plowing.... this stops when:

0. ski length matches skier weight (size up)
1. speed increases
2. tips aren't driven from shins

These boards don't respond well to a static fwd posture IMO. No offense to the strong guys trying to drive these, but vary the weight balance and see the ski come alive.

There's a lot of tail to work with, so work it!

Shift the weight, load them and pop! fly around... they return energy like nothing else.

Not sure if directed at me but I skied the Bibby in a 190. The plowing and punching was in reference ot way the Bibby's tips 'punched' through cut up pow, and that was with a driving stance. If I got too centered, I was just tail-gunning like a beater and no one wants to see that. Racing habits and Gordy's teachings die hard I guess. I also don't find the BGs of last year to be too soft. At times, I even find them a bit stiff, but only a wee bit. I don't think I've thought, "Gee, I need the BetelGrump/aever flex of the Super Goats."

I don't know, maybe I just overpower the skis as I drive them? Or i'm over-thinking it? They slay because I drive them and the tails allows for slarvy fun and to break them loose to change turn shape or radius. Not sure what else to tell you?

For reference, 185 pounds in the birthday suit, 6'0", not quite 40 and I've been skiing nearly all that time.

Yup, the issue was fixed for you with more ski, via SG build.

I used to want more length once in awhile but now I'm a skinny bitch and the 191 is well suited.

We make the same point from 2 sides.

Those having issues with the BG are either mismatched to the size, or not adapting technique. They are an odd shape but once they click, slay on.

I do agree that the shape was new to me. It did take most of a good pow day to really figure them out. I overestimated their intutitiveness. Or maybe I was used to wholly different ski shapes. The same could be said for the 4FRNT Renegade though the ramp time was less with me. Dunno... first world problems?

I would be interested to ski the new C&D too. Back to that n+1 comment you made. I was very happy with the BGs in storm conditions though. Your comment on driving the BG hard on packed snow is somewhat counter to what I've normally heard, especially for the assym models.

I look forward to really getting to know these skis. The first non-traditional-shape ski I've had, and I can tell there's a bit of a learning curve. I've mainly just done big lazy carves on short sections of packed to get back to the lift for another powder run. No time really focusing on packed performance. Your comments will probably drive me to take them out on lower snow days though just to mess with them.

n+1 is the answer. I mean, this is TGR.

Maybe it's the 189 length, but laying trenches in those things was pretty easy. At that length, there seems to be plenty of ski up front and just hammer that shin forward, drive the heels down and fucking haul ass on the groom. In fact, I found them more locked in doing that given the narrower tail. And more centered and I didn't feel like I had the ski locked in like it needed to be. It's best-skier-on-the-mountain or total-fucking-beater-sauce for me.

Who doesn't like a little controversy?
Thanks to everyone who has provided their thoughts. It's interesting to see established Billy fans speaking so highly of the new C&D. Unless a bunch of people start posting convincing Billy > C&D as the dedicated pow ski in a quiver posts I am increasingly leaning towards picking up a C&D to occupy the top spot in my quiver.
I'd still like to hear more C&D vs Protest discussion, as I have skied the Protest and can better apply my own experience to other people's findings.

I know I'm starting to sound like a crusty old fuck here, but take a long think on the type and depth of snow you regularly ski. This idea of buying skis for the snow we want vs. the snow we have is real. It's taken me years to admit that.

On the other hand, I totally support buying all of the skis and hoarding to the point of being your own episode of Buried Alive. If you can do both; SEND IT. If you're not on a dental lawyer skiing budget, get the BG.

And I'll say this; sometimes it's rad to have just enough to ski to slay the pow and get face shots. Too fat a ski and you're never going to get that most powerful of currency that we maggots seek.

Everybody should own Billy Goats. Especially if you’re in the pacific time zone. My life is more complete because of Billy Goats.

FKNA right! Took me two winters back in the PNW to realize that.

[Bobcat Sig]

Buying skis shouldn't be this hard.

heh, lulz. What else are we supposed to do while the lifts aren't spinning?

[SkiLyft]

Everybody should own Billy Goats. Especially if you’re in the pacific time zone. My life is more complete because of Billy Goats

Sig worthy. Got a pair this year and regret not having done this sooner.

[beasttowest]

There’s nothing like skiburger for ON3P right?

[RudyGarmisch]

Touring on the 108 Wren this past weekend fucking sucked.

[klauss]

FKNA

[SupreChicken]

.

You look downright athletic here.

[RudyGarmisch]

Work of a good photog

[SupreChicken]

I saw a Steeple 116 with veneer come in just over 9. About 2100g per. Basically BGt w/ veneer and you’re there.

Then maybe that’s the next build for me.

[mtskibum16]

Killer shots!

[PowTron]

You look downright athletic here.

The flying albatross style was pioneered in 1896 by Rowen’s great, great grandmother.

[Reformed]

I'm bored and well sauced on a dental flight back home and I'm almost old enough to be a crusty old fuck, but take a long think on the type and depth of snow you regularly ski. This idea of buying skis for the snow we want vs. the snow we have is real. It's taken me years to admit that.

FIFY and not sounding overly crusty to me. I'm slightly older, have been known to be crusty from time to time and have come to the same realization.

I'm not looking to daily drive these. OG Cochise or Deathwish covers that base most of the time for me.

These will come out when there is ~6 inches or more of fresh snow at the hill, on the odd cat day, short tours and trips to snowy locales like Japan and Alaska. My time on some borrowed Protests last year taught me that my Bibbys aren't the 9/10 pow ski (say 7.75/10?) that I thought they were and also demonstrated that Protests weren't the 3/10 crud ski (maybe a 7 if the Bibbys are a 9?) that I thought they might be. For me, at the hill that I most often ski, I'd grab the Protest over the Bibby on these sorts of days every time no question. Our hill gets fairly regular refreshes, has lots of fairly low angle sections that reward a fat ski and stashes stay fresh well into the afternoon/next day. These won't see anything that could be called firm unless I intentionally take them out on the wrong day.

If the Protests that I borrowed last year had made it into this spot in my quiver I wouldn't be asking these questions. Reputable mags suggesting that they'd select the current C&D over the Billy (and maybe the Protest) on these sorts of days under these sorts of conditions makes a guy go hmmmmm, no?

Not on a dental lawyer budget and don't buy skis often, so I like to get it as close to right as I can. I know, N+1, quiver pics and all that, but I'd rather invest my energy into going skiing than buying skis.

Keep those comparisons rolling fellas!

[Bobcat Sig]

FIFY and not sounding overly crusty to me. I'm slightly older, have been known to be crusty from time to time and have come to the same realization.

I'm not looking to daily drive these. OG Cochise or Deathwish covers that base most of the time for me.

These will come out when there is ~6 inches or more of fresh snow at the hill, on the odd cat day, short tours and trips to snowy locales like Japan and Alaska. My time on some borrowed Protests last year taught me that my Bibbys aren't the 9/10 pow ski (say 7.75/10?) that I thought they were and also demonstrated that Protests weren't the 3/10 crud ski (maybe a 7 if the Bibbys are a 9?) that I thought they might be. For me, at the hill that I most often ski, I'd grab the Protest over the Bibby on these sorts of days every time no question. Our hill gets fairly regular refreshes, has lots of fairly low angle sections that reward a fat ski and stashes stay fresh well into the afternoon/next day. These won't see anything that could be called firm unless I intentionally take them out on the wrong day.

If the Protests that I borrowed last year had made it into this spot in my quiver I wouldn't be asking these questions. Reputable mags suggesting that they'd select the current C&D over the Billy (and maybe the Protest) on these sorts of days under these sorts of conditions makes a guy go hmmmmm, no?

Not on a dental lawyer budget and don't buy skis often, so I like to get it as close to right as I can. I know, N+1, quiver pics and all that, but I'd rather invest my energy into going skiing than buying skis.

Keep those comparisons rolling fellas!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Crusty old fucks are at least 50+. I'm still a spring chicken

I guess it's whatever blows your hair back. I tried the 120mm+ ski thing for a while and it was so rare to be able to ski days where that we even necessary. I even heli skied with my Rens and found they were too much. Besides, skiing a huge fat ski on a 6" day kinda keeps you out of the good stuff. So... YMMV and get whatever makes your ski pants tight.

[slowroastin]

K108 ripping today. Plently of float on low angle pow, and grippy turns back to the lift.

I really think mounting -1 would provide a nice boost in forward pressure edge hold. But im not putting a second set of holes in mine.


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[CallMeAl]

PSA: I'll have a demo fleet at Alpy during part of BBI.

No tent, no public presence, just BBIing myself and the skis will be available for you guys to try out. Looking forward to good skiing, fine meat products, and cheap beer!

[Norseman]

PSA: I'll have a demo fleet at Alpy during part of BBI.

No tent, no public presence, just BBIing myself and the skis will be available for you guys to try out. Looking forward to good skiing, fine meat products, and cheap beer!

Word, thank you.

[himavan]

Boom! Just got me a pair of 184 Billy goats. Stoked.
Thanks all for the collective advice and changing my mind from the K108s.
Now I just have to wait a while for my buddy to bring them up to canada for me.
By the way not many left online any more (no stock layups left at the factory and none at Evo).