Why all the Caroline Gleich hate?

[skifishbum]

dont know much about avvy 3 and what criteria you need to pass
cept i doubt i could pass
i do think if you show up with your skills dialed and left no doubt in your instructors mind you pass
and i do not believe that a sexist conspiracy or preconcieved notion is the bottom line that a doubt serious enough to not pass was the reason they deemed her avalaunche snow science skill set as not up to their avvy 3 standards
and yur butthurt whining only belittles your accomplishments, feeds the hungry ego, and does little to sway the the court of public opinion within my small circle of friends and does the opposite of most everything that poorly written #metoo rant in a shitty social media platform
for free

[doebedoe]

Did SFB just accuse someone else of poor writing?

It doesn't need to be a conspiracy. Sexism rarely is. But the fact her instructors wrote what they did in failing her makes it clear they had preconceived notions about this person. Throughout the class, they likely unconsciously sought out actions that reaffirmed their beliefs. There is a lot of research on the fact that most every one of us does this, and it blinds us in certain ways. (https://youarenotsosmart.com/ is a great podcast on similar matters.) They then referred not to her actions in the class, but to her life outside it as part of the reason she failed. There may have been other reasons she failed, but by writing what they did they undermine any legitimate concerns they had with her performance.

[Danno]

I agree with doebedoe, zartagen, and supermoon.

[zion zig zag]

Did SFB just accuse someone else of poor writing?

It doesn't need to be a conspiracy. Sexism rarely is. But the fact her instructors wrote what they did in failing her makes it clear they had preconceived notions about this person. Throughout the class, they likely unconsciously sought out actions that reaffirmed their beliefs. There is a lot of research on the fact that most every one of us does this, and it blinds us in certain ways. (https://youarenotsosmart.com/ is a great podcast on similar matters.) They then referred not to her actions in the class, but to her life outside it as part of the reason she failed. There may have been other reasons she failed, but by writing what they did they undermine any legitimate concerns they had with her performance.

Well said. That quote from her instructor, that would appear to have been a written comment, is concerning.

[skifishbum]

show up and own the class
ya pass
but it obviously didnt happen that way
and your free to believe what ever narrative you choose

[goldenboy]

Americans have such a weird idea about guiding, as if anything done with a guide deserves an *. I just had this conversation with a guide friend of mine, about how different it is when he guides in Chamonix, where many of his clients have a similar skillset but still choose to go with a guide.

[DBdude]

Amazing all the hate she gets...WTF:
https://www.outsideonline.com/231381...-gleich-sexism

this woman can not catch a break - what bull shit

[doebedoe]

Americans have such a weird idea about guiding, as if anything done with a guide deserves an *. I just had this conversation with a guide friend of mine, about how different it is when he guides in Chamonix, where many of his clients have a similar skillset but still choose to go with a guide.

Interesting observation. American's like to believe we do things independently, without support. Maybe guiding is one of those things that get slagged off here because its better or more "authentic" if you do it on your own.

[zion zig zag]

Americans have such a weird idea about guiding, as if anything done with a guide deserves an *. I just had this conversation with a guide friend of mine, about how different it is when he guides in Chamonix, where many of his clients have a similar skillset but still choose to go with a guide.

I thought the same thing. And I thought it was odd that these accusations came from a guide seeing as that I always hear guides talking about the European model where there is no shame in having a guide.

We have some guides on the board. I’d love to hear their perspective on this.

[muted]

She's the Rodney Dangerfield of skiing, so many other women ripping skiers don't quite get the layers of shit she does. They all experience sexism I'm sure, but there's something about her that really sets guys off for some reason.

[plugboots]

She’s a good skier. It’s kinda rare for a woman to do what she does. I wish she would keep more quiet and rise above, (so to speak).

[doebedoe]

She’s a good skier. It’s kinda rare for a woman to do what she does. I wish she would keep more quiet and rise above, (so to speak).

If she keeps quiet, the shit that she and all women in the outdoors world deal with stays quiet and the same. That's just continuing the bullshit.

She's obviously decided she wants to use her recognition to influence causes she cares about: the environment, sexism in the outdoors industry, etc. If she only wanted to be known for her climbing/skiing exploits, she could do that too. But she wants to do more than that. So does Alex honnold but no one tells him to just keep quiet and rise above environmental degradation.

[zion zig zag]

I wish she would keep more quiet and rise above, (so to speak).

Like black people and their interactions with police? I hope you can see from the correlation that yours is a bullshit statement.

[plugboots]

That’s why I said more quiet.

[Dantheman]

She's the Rodney Dangerfield of skiing, so many other women ripping skiers don't quite get the layers of shit she does. They all experience sexism I'm sure, but there's something about her that really sets guys off for some reason.

She's pretty far to the upper right on the pretty face/badass athlete matrix, which for some guys is particularly emasculating and they just do not handle it well.

[jono]

...a sponsored athlete who’s job is to bring exposure to her sponsors.

I’m grateful for these doubts because they give me the opportunity to set the record straight.

Successful sponsored athlete takes advantage of all press. Astute maneuver. Her 15 minutes was successfully extended.

Seems valid to ask: does elevating the rumors and defending and shining a light on her accomplishments in the process help the women in her field more than it separates her from them by demonstrating her superior ability to leverage media?

[MTT]

Successful sponsored athlete takes advantage of all press. Astute maneuver. Her 15 minutes was successfully extended.

Seems valid to ask: does elevating the rumors and defending and shining a light on her accomplishments in the process help the women in her field more than it separates her from them by demonstrating her superior ability to leverage media?

Well said.
I was trying to figure out the right way to say the same thing.

This thread got her in the public eye.
So damit just post up the link to what I am supposed to watch next.

I am not offended that we are being worked to get some chatter about an outdoor sports personality.

I would rather see press on Caroline that Vonn

[Supermoon]

Successful sponsored athlete takes advantage of all press. Astute maneuver. Her 15 minutes was successfully extended.

Seems valid to ask: does elevating the rumors and defending and shining a light on her accomplishments in the process help the women in her field more than it separates her from them by demonstrating her superior ability to leverage media?

I highly doubt that this sort of exposure hurts anyone but the trolls who are trying to throw shade at her.

[AdironRider]

If she keeps quiet, the shit that she and all women in the outdoors world deal with stays quiet and the same. That's just continuing the bullshit.

She's obviously decided she wants to use her recognition to influence causes she cares about: the environment, sexism in the outdoors industry, etc. If she only wanted to be known for her climbing/skiing exploits, she could do that too. But she wants to do more than that. So does Alex honnold but no one tells him to just keep quiet and rise above environmental degradation.

I think the whole production quality thing rubs people the wrong way. Alex doesn't put perfect production quality instagram shots out there, he just does his thing. I don't think its the fact that she is supporting these causes, but it comes off as more virtue signaling for publicity than from the heart kinda thing. She is the equivalent of a vanlife instagram account of skiing. Either way it is pretty dumb, but she could be more real about it.

[Harry]

She is a badass mountain athlete that deserves huge respect for her accomplishments. Plus she has a brain and is outspoken about causes she believes in, yet another reason she deserves respect. Plus she is hot: 8/10, would bang.


Edit: the whole guide thing is complete bull. So she hired a guide to provide safety/rigging for the film crew ? But a male athlete whose film crew were in a Heli get a pass because they weren't using a guide ? That is bullshit. I have huge respect & admiration for her.

[doebedoe]

I think the whole production quality thing rubs people the wrong way. Alex doesn't put perfect production quality instagram shots out there, he just does his thing. I don't think its the fact that she is supporting these causes, but it comes off as more virtue signaling for publicity than from the heart kinda thing.

Alex is in more high production quality stuff than Caroline. Maybe he's not creating it, but others are creating it for him.

If you think women speaking up about sexism is virtue signaling and not from the heart...well...that's just dismissing them without merit.

Either way it is pretty dumb, but she could be more real about it. "I will not be defeated" from that article, which she wrote but then titled in the third person is a good example. Look Catherine, no one is going to defeat you in the battle of rich kids sports skiing. This isn't a war. The notion of her thinking that is the way things are is pretty explicit example of what she thinks of her feats.

She wrote the article for her blog. The title is applied by someone at Outside mag when reposting it to their site, not her own making.

From the sound of her post, it seems she may have been treated with bias while trying to accomplish a goal many of us would laud -- an avvy 3. Its not a war, its not getting shot by cops, its not redlining you out of homes. But it is fucked up.

[Skidog]

She is a badass mountain athlete that deserves huge respect for her accomplishments. Plus she has a brain and is outspoken about causes she believes in, yet another reason she deserves respect. Plus she is hot: 8/10, would bang.


Edit: the whole guide thing is complete bull. So she hired a guide to provide safety/rigging for the film crew ? But a male athlete whose film crew were in a Heli get a pass because they weren't using a guide ? That is bullshit. I have huge respect & admiration for her.

^^^^^this

The worst part is she's a pretty approachable person, and the stalker thing has changed that. I saw her at Alta the day she finished the ribbon in devil's castle and I congratulated her, but she seemed standoffish, we had met in person before, but she didn't recognize me. Came to find out later, through FB messages, that she was sketched about the stalker deal (was very fresh at time) and she was sorry she acted like that.

Sucks when a nice person gets shit on. I don't agree with her on everything, but that's part of who each person is...we won't all agree.

She only gets bashed by men who can't handle women doing something better than they can. In my book she's baller than any man I know personally. Maybe all the bashers hang out with world class mountaineers?

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[AdironRider]

Alex is in more high production quality stuff than Caroline. Maybe he's not creating it, but others are creating it for him.

If you think women speaking up about sexism is virtue signaling and not from the heart...well...that's just dismissing them without merit.



She wrote the article for her blog. The title is applied by someone at Outside mag when reposting it to their site, not her own making.

From the sound of her post, it seems she may have been treated with bias while trying to accomplish a goal many of us would laud -- an avvy 3. Its not a war, its not getting shot by cops, its not redlining you out of homes. But it is fucked up.

I think there is a huge difference between people using Alex's exploits for their own motives and Catherine building an instagram brand for herself. Alex has at most arm length control over the situation, Catherine is driving her own ship.

On your second point, fucked up? I disagree. I think there is a slight bit of entitlement on her part that she can put a bunch of thinly veiled activism (which hey I agree with!) in IG and then when people reject it decide it is clearly just sexism, and not just some people disagreeing with you. Of course, being the internet it is wrapped in with extreme examples of speech.

Look you can support even what I would agree are the right causes, but you can't get all butthurt when absolutely everyone doesn't feel the same way you do. Some folks are just never going to see the light. The whole Outside article is standoffish and entitled, regardless of whether it was justified. Promote the causes you care about so much, not yourself fighting for them.

Being stalked though sucks, so I can see how that would fuck with her head in person to person meetings. Even if you seek fame and fortune you shouldn't have to live life in fear.

[Supermoon]

I think there is a huge difference between people using Alex's exploits for their own motives and Catherine building an instagram brand for herself. Alex has at most arm length control over the situation, Catherine is driving her own ship.

Honnold used the breaking of the speed record on The Nose to announce a new sponsorship with a supplements company. So maybe don’t put him on a pedestal.

Everyone is trying to make a living doing what they love in the mountains. More power to whomever can make it work. I wish I was talented or good looking enough to not have to sit at a desk all day and wish I was out there instead.

[jono]

I highly doubt that this sort of exposure hurts anyone but the trolls who are trying to throw shade at her.

I'd buy that. Not sure who those people are, though, so in the grand scheme I expect most of them are not damaged much, either.

It's a scary valid point about her Avy3 examiner allegedly putting something that implies a pre-existing bias in writing. (Still true without assuming sexism in his comment, because it would have been a stupid comment to make about a spancered male, too.) He may have had a valid reason for his conclusion, but we'll never know because he leaned on something irrelevant. Dumbass move does not speak highly of his thinking skills. Expert halo takes another hit.