meniscus or MCL tear/experiences.

[old goat]

Tore my medial meniscus 40 years ago--diagnosed by physical exam by an orthopedist. Knee was grossly swollen, unable to bend it for weeks. I was an idiot (a licensed MD idiot) and instead of seriously icing it I hit the hot tub at the Peruvian. I hurt it in January, was able to do a short easy spring tour by sidehilling so the my bad knee was always downhill. Today I can't remember which knee it was so I guess it healed fine on its own.

[Kinnikinnick]

PT helping straighten things out a bit. Less limping in general.

And then yesterday, bam it was all stiffened up again. Could hardly walk.
Today its great again. WTF

2nd opinion end of last week - "best chance for a 'stable platform' is to have the tear repaired"

3rd opinion/referral from a friend later this week.

If I have the repair, it sucks because I'm looking at 4-5 months before being back on skis.

[rod9301]

Do some research. I've read that meniscus surgery doesn't help.

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[owwee]

PT helping straighten things out a bit. Less limping in general.

And then yesterday, bam it was all stiffened up again. Could hardly walk.
Today its great again. WTF

Welcome to meniscus tears! F***ing frustrating.

2nd opinion end of last week - "best chance for a 'stable platform' is to have the tear repaired"

3rd opinion/referral from a friend later this week.

If I have the repair, it sucks because I'm looking at 4-5 months before being back on skis.

I've been there, buddy. Stay strong. More than anything, be patient! I had to learn to listen to my body. In the long run, you want good health for an active rest of life.

[Kinnikinnick]

Thanks for the "vibes" ^^^^^^


Well the plot thickens. Had a 3rd opinion from a sports orthopedist specialist.

He doesn't see the meniscus tear as either so clearly torn or as requiring immediate arthroscopy/repair. His read of the MRI is different than the other two. Sees some sort of tear but not one requiring immediate attention or necessarily explaining my symptoms. In fact he sees something in the MRI with the MCL that is an injury at some point such that he thinks that it could be the actual main problem. MCL sprain that has not healed entirely.

Gave me a steroid injection and said to continue PT for a few more weeks. If the steroid makes it better fast = meniscus. If steroid doesn't make much difference = MCL

[auvgeek]

If you get another injection, consider a PRP or stem cell injection over steroids.

[Kinnikinnick]

Well a month later and I have gotten a lot better although not completely better. And I have not put the knee to a road test as it were.

I have a meniscus arthroscopy surgery scheduled for the 12th. It’s weird to think of having it with significant improvement so scratching my head.


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[Not Neil_Armstrong]

Tore my medial meniscus 40 years ago--diagnosed by physical exam by an orthopedist. Knee was grossly swollen, unable to bend it for weeks. I was an idiot (a licensed MD idiot) and instead of seriously icing it I hit the hot tub at the Peruvian. I hurt it in January, was able to do a short easy spring tour by sidehilling so the my bad knee was always downhill. Today I can't remember which knee it was so I guess it healed fine on its own.

I did this as well but 17-18 years ago. Both knees mogul skiing.
But they hurt every day.... I should have got them fixed. Now my MCL is acting up.

[auvgeek]

Seriously guys, consider a stem cell injection before surgery. At least meet with a stem-cell doc (who is not an orthopedist) and hear what they have to say.

My wife, jesski, fell climbing on her ankle twice -- first time she had surgery and the second time we decided to try a stem cell injection first after lots of PT. Stem cell injection was more successful than surgery, despite the ankle being worse to start with. Her injury was a talar defect with torn lateral and medial ligaments, which is similar to a meniscus injury with torn MCL but in the ankle. They can inject both the ligaments and the joint, so you don't have to narrow it down to the meniscus or MCL. In CO, we had great success with Dr. Karli at the Steadman Clinic. We also insisted on no local anesthetic at the injection site because it can kill the viable stem cells. YMMV. Keep in mind, she did have a steroid shot that did almost nothing; there's no point in even comparing stem cells and cortisone.

Seriously, give the stem cells a shot -- you can always have the surgery afterwards, but you can't undo the surgery after they remove any tissue. Not to mention they don't really understand why this is, but surgical outcomes are often different biomechanically than they were before and can result in early-onset osteoarthritis.

[owwee]

I saw an article about stem cell therapy for knees recently. Relatively new treatment and so not yet fully understood or perfected, but definitely looks interesting! This article is talking about it more for knee ostearthritis than for injuries, but worth a read.

https://www.skimag.com/ski-performan...apy-save-knees

[auvgeek]

I saw an article about stem cell therapy for knees recently. Relatively new treatment and so not yet fully understood or perfected

Would you say surgery for the knees is fully understood or perfected?

The fact is, we don't really understand the human body very well at all, and orthopedic surgery is a bit of a scam when you look at the literature. Many people just assume it works (I mean, why else would you let somebody do something so invasive?) but recent studies have really questioned the efficacy of a number of orthopedic operations. Unfortunately, it's hard and very expensive to get FDA approval for human-subject testing with an injected drug, so you likely won't see many double-blind, peer-reviewed studies until stem-cell injections become much more mainstream. Meaning people will

I view surgery a bit like antibiotics -- we're just starting to understand how truly awful they are for your gut bacteria -- but they can absolutely save your life if you really need them.

[Kinnikinnick]

Meniscus repair today.
Long road to recovery. 3 weeks crutches then Months of PT

Ouchy poo poo


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[owwee]

Damn. Hang in there. Good luck! It may take time, but you will feel great again.

[Kinnikinnick]

I had the inside out repair which I now know is quite painful because of the extra incision.

Yelp


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[jono]

Good luck Kinnikinnick. Had a painful knee surgery as a kid and still remember that ache.

[Kinnikinnick]

Well checking in 5 weeks after surgery. I just started walking without any crutches or brace.
Operated knee feels so good so far. The “good knee “ and the back on that side on the other hand are pretty hurting with having carried so much of the weight these weeks.


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[owwee]

Well checking in 5 weeks after surgery. I just started walking without any crutches or brace.
Operated knee feels so good so far. The “good knee “ and the back on that side on the other hand are pretty hurting with having carried so much of the weight these weeks.

Nice idea sharing an update. I remember that was the low point, and then you can start rehabbing. I too had pain in the other knee and also my shoulder after so much time on crutches. Both ended up needing rehab of their own. :/

Good luck and hang in there.

[Kinnikinnick]

About 12 weeks out from my meniscus repair surgery. Knee is a lot better, getting stronger, only hurts after a longer walk/Hike 1mile+.

Here’s the question for those who have been through this - how to negotiate the return to skiing?

When did you go for the slopes and what was the criteria for you to open that door?

I don’t think I’m ready yet, but if the trend continues I could see it in 3-4 weeks.


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[AlpiNord]

It might be apples to bananas, but after my trim Sept 2016, I was skiing in late November/early December without concern. IIRC, within a couple/few weeks or so after surgery I was generally doing normal rides, hikes and other activities.

I can't remember exactly, but typically early season is on XC skis. Could you go for a mellow, flat tour to work the muscles and test drive the knee?

[bknyc]

Def going to be following this thread…

I'm at the 6 week mark post-surgery:
this morning at PT i got on the stationary bike for the first time!
now I'm also allowed to walk with the brace unlocked (with crutches)
still can not bend the knee more than 90

i'm thinking about buying one of those Squidgo's - it's like a portable Gameready machine, anyone heard of it?

cautiously optimistic that i'll be okay for next season (even though I've read these repairs aren't 100%, especially with the tear type I have)

I posted my meniscus tear/repair in another thread

I tore my lateral meniscus 6 weeks ago snowboarding. Hit a 30', landed on the knuckle and heard a loud pop from my right knee. Originally I thought it was my ACL because of the pop. There was some minor swelling later that evening, but no pain. My knee wasn't locking and my range of motion was fine.

As a ski/snowboard instructor, I know knee injuries are common, so I scheduled an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon 4-5 days later; I didn't bother with seeing my PCP. I had an x-ray prior to seeing the surgeon (insurance requires this). The doctor confirmed that my ACL was fine from the physical examination, but wanted an MRI because of the swelling and the popping noise I heard.

The MRI results showed that I had a radial tear in my lateral meniscus.

My options were surgery or just physical therapy. Knowing that I had a radial tear (these types of tears do not heal on their own), and researching that meniscus repairs are most successful if done within 3-6 weeks from the accident, I choose to immediately have the surgery. Delaying it would also risk making the tear worse.

The surgery took less than an hour. The surgeon discovered that the radial tear went up to the periphery, almost splitting it in half - the MRI images didn't show this, it was only possible through arthroscopic surgery. Aside from stitching the meniscus together (btw, no trim required, the tear was clean, no frayed edges), they also did a PRP injection and a microfracture procedure (bone marrow stem cells) to help stimulate the meniscus to heal better.

[Kinnikinnick]

Best of luck ^^.

Hit the PT consistently including stationary bicycle when they clear you for that. Staying on the PT is why I’m as good shape as I think that i am.

It might be apples to bananas, but after my trim Sept 2016, I was skiing in late November/early December without concern. ?

Yeah, with the meniscus repair it’s def banana to your apples. They had me non weight bearing for 4 weeks so I was badly atrophied and then they want to leash you for at least a couple months after to let the repair heal and regain strength to protect it.

I’ll see the DR in 2 weeks and I suspect that he’ll want to keep me on the leash for another month.

I’m researching skier specific return to sports protocols. Mostly looks like:

- No pain
- range of motion normal
- strength in leg >85% of other leg
- specific exercise performance like single leg squats, agility tests, running with proper form, etc




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[bknyc]

I just had my 2nd post op exam (7 weeks)

Surgeon was happy with how my knee looked; Not a lot of atrophy in the injured knee/leg. I can do full extension and also bend my leg to 90° with no issues. They think I can be out of crutches and my leg brace in another 3-4 weeks. Accordingly, they upped my rehab plan to increase the workload. I'm allowed to use 1 crutch at home. I'm diligent with my home exercises - also keeps me sane from FOMO.

This is good news that I was not expecting when I learned of my injury's severity.

Obviously, I'm still not expecting to be back on the mountain or surfing for at least another 5-6 months based on what I've read from most mensicus repair experiences

- oh, and the city granted me a handicap parking pass…never thought i'd get one of these until i was at least 70yo

[Kinnikinnick]

I just had my 2nd post op exam (7 weeks)

Surgeon was happy with how my knee looked; Not a lot of atrophy in the injured knee/leg. I can do full extension and also bend my leg to 90° with no issues. They think I can be out of crutches and my leg brace in another 3-4 weeks. Accordingly, they upped my rehab plan to increase the workload. I'm allowed to use 1 crutch at home. I'm diligent with my home exercises - also keeps me sane from FOMO.

This is good news that I was not expecting when I learned of my injury's severity.

Obviously, I'm still not expecting to be back on the mountain or surfing for at least another 5-6 months based on what I've read from most mensicus repair experiences

- oh, and the city granted me a handicap parking pass…never thought i'd get one of these until i was at least 70yo

Good to hear. Stay on the PT, you’ll see results.

Im about 12 weeks out from mine and mostly moving about great.

I have found a definite 2 steps forward and one back pattern. Just when I’m convinced that I’m almost back to full function, it starts hurting a bit. The good knee is achy from so taking so much of the brunt these weeks, but I guess I’m no spring chicken anymore.






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[owwee]

The good knee is achy from so taking so much of the brunt these weeks, but I guess I’m no spring chicken anymore.

Hi Kinnikinnick. Good to read your updates here. Your meniscus repair experience continues to very closely mirror my own of several years ago. I too developed pretty bad knee pain in the non-injured knee. (In the process of exploring that, I had an MRI and discovered an incomplete meniscus tear probably dating back many years. The treatment for that was just PT and patience.) I also developed a very severe shoulder inflammation that also needed months of PT... all that time on crutches is pretty brutal on the body, not to mention the atrophy to the leg with surgery.

Anyway, I'm happy to tell you that I am several years out and after diligent home exercises learned in PT, I am better than new. I still do the exercises (mainly one leg squats) to keep my knees strong. And with this maintenance, when I go skiing, I feel as good or better than when I was 25. One season, I was lazy about that however, and I got pretty bad sore/achy knees after a couple days of skiing. So bad, I wondered if I had hurt myself. (Hypochondriac much? ) But no, just needed to learn that those squats are ESSENTIAL for good knee health.

So anyway, keep up the good work and hang in there. Patience.

[bknyc]

yep...my good knee is aching more now too

I'm hoping it subsides as i'm allowed to put full weight on my injured leg now since i'm now on 1 crutch.

did any of you use an icing compression machine? The hospital rented me a GameReady, which i found helpful (these costs $2500) I discovered a similar device called SquidGo, any of you seen this, thoughts? It's only $300, seems worth it for my knees. I found it through the U.S. Ski Teams website